Are there two gospels or ONE?

[FlyingDove]

I want to make a separate topic of this:

Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?.

YES!

We are ALL sinners, deserving the LAWS required payment = judgment & DEATH!

Gospel = Good news. What's the good news? God via his loving merciful grace, has provided sinners a way/path to a full pardon.

God, 1st revealed his plan of redemption/sin forgiveness/reconciliation to Adam & Eve. When he covered them with/in sacrificed animal skins (Gen 3:21). Later on Mt Moriah, God, reveals his plan of redemption/sin forgiveness/reconciliation to Abraham. Abraham names the place: Jehovahjireh

Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
(NOTE: Jehovahjireh means = The Lord Will Provide. Ok, PROVIDE what? A SACRIFICE! The promised seed/Christ: = Is the redemptive SACRIFICE/Atonement!)

Next God calls out a people, the Nation of Israel. He gives them the LAW (works required) a sacrifical system (to cover "NOT" remove sin) and promised them a King (Messiah) that would redeem (completly "REMOVE" thier sin) them.

The gospel of the kingdom message was to the Nation of Israel only. Based on, the identity of & belief that, Jesus was the OT promised Messiah (Matt 16:13-16, Jn 11:25-27, Jn 3:18, Acts 2:21 & 38, 3:6 & 16, 4:7, 10, 12, 17, 18, 30, 5.28, 40, 41, 8:12 & 16, 9:14, 15, 21, 27, 10:43 & 48). This gospel's focus was the identity of the promised coming Messiah & the to collective Nation of Israel only. ONLY FAITH/BELIEF IN WHO HE WAS """THE PROMISED MESSISH""" WAS REQUIRED.

Christ's Death, Burial & Rerurrection """WAS NOT""" the gospel of the kingdom message. It's true Jesus had told the 12 about his coming suffering. And they DIDN'T have a clue. (Lk 18:34) If they knew, why were they suprised & in disbelief at his resurrection?

There were NO gentiles on Mt Sinai when Moses gives the law. John the Baptist, baptizes NO gentiles in the wilderness. NO gentiles receive the Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. There are NO gentiles members in/of the early church in Jerusalem.

Scripture records salvation is FIRST to/for the Jew, then to the gentile. (Rom 1:16, Rom 2:9-10)

Peter is was the FIRST to openly recognize/confess that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Jesus promises Peter the keys to the kingdom (Matt 16:15-19)

Peter gets & uses these keys: 1st opening the door to the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, JEWS ONLY! 2ndly opening salvations door, via the Holy Spirit, to gentiles at Cornelius house. (Acts 10) At least 7 years after Pentecost. Peter goes back to Jerusalem.

Enter Paul: The RISEN Christ's chosen apostle sent to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17)

Paul is given a different message: It requires faith in Christ's death, burial & resurrection. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

Gal 1:11-12 Paul says he received HIS gospel/good news/message via direct revelation, from the RISEN Lord. Vs 15: at the time chosen by God. Vs 16: God reveal's to Paul the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24. Paul calls his RISEN Christ given message the revelation of the mystery (Eph 3:3) Back to Gal 1 Vs:17 Paul goes to Arabia)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children
(NOTE: Paul receives his message on Mt Sinai in Arabia. Same place God gave Moses the law. Its here on Mt Sinai where Paul is taken to the 3rd heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4)

Gal 2:1-2 14 yrs later, Paul goes via direct revelation from God to Jerusalem. And explains HIS RISEN Christ given message to the Apostles.

At the Council in Jersulem (Acts 15) after much disputing over gentiles keeping Mosaic law. An agreement is made & the apostles sent letters to all the Churches. You gentiles are """NOT""" under Mosaic Law!

After the destruction of the Temple. Paul’s gospel of grace message (Acts 20:24) completely supplants, the gospel of the kingdom message formally preached by Jesus & the 12.

The Gospel = Good News of salvation is alway's appropriated via FAITH. For Abraham via FAITH in a sacrifice to come. For the Jew under the Kingdom message via FAITH in who Jesus was. And to the New Tesatment Church/Body of Christ via FAITH in his FINISHED redemptive work. Found in Christ's death (sins required wage PAID) & resurrection (God's receipt, sins payment received & accepted).

One Gospel, always accessed via a FAITH choice. Different, way's/time frames/messages, of appropriating FAITH! Abraham by believing the sacrifice would come, Jew under the law by believing who Jesus was. And today to anyone that believes in Christ death & resurrection.

 

[Rightlydivided]

The Jews will turn to their Messiah during the tribulation and will be in need of direction. During the Church Age, their eyes have been blinded. Read Romans 10-11.

I have personally watched this doctrine tear families apart as they become fruit inspectors, and not simply as an observation, but to the point where action is taken and some harmless sinner that is not yet strong enough without the support of his brethren, gets treated like some kind of infidel....I’ve watched these children of God leave the church in confusion and defeat,...it is a scary thing that is happening.

 

[Hevosmies]

Thanks brother for asking. I'm halfway through radiation treatments, every day for five weeks. Trying to get into remission so I can receive a stem cell transplant. Haven't found a match yet, however. I think it's because I'm 1/8 Cherokee Indian. If you have Cherokee Indian in your DNA, sign up for the registry! Lol

I love Bible discussions. No worries.

Hope and pray you find one bro! unfortunately im not American (and dont even live in USA) so I cannot be a donor.

I bet the Cherokee ancestry makes it more difficult yeah, they are a small peoples!

 

[Rightlydivided]

The Jews will turn to their Messiah during the tribulation and will be in need of direction. During the Church Age, their eyes have been blinded. Read Romans 10-11.

My great grand mother, on my mother’s side, was full blooded Cherokee😬

 

[John146]

My great grand mother, on my mother’s side, was full blooded Cherokee😬

Lol, my great grand mother on my Father's side was full blooded.

 

[Sipsey]

As a young Christian, a few decades ago, I marveled that the Apostles teaching of Scripture was “ALL” O.T. The N.T. is full of Grace and forgiveness, but it was simply the O.T. properly exegeted by the Holy Spirit.

I had always found that my several attempts at reading through the O.T. seemed to always end in frustration and getting bogged down in the many stories. Fast forward to a decade ago or so and “finally” a little light went off accompanied by a big grin.

God’s message has never wavered. It will never waver, but how He shared that unwavering message of love, forgiveness and accountability has been modified over the ages.

One thing that seemed to help me to understand our purpose was partially in response to studying the Angelic conflict, and the book of Job really helped to see that.

I understand that we all struggle with the concept of sin, but it is not the biggest issue, God is. It didn’t take me but about 40 years to figure some of this out, so I understand the struggle.

I also came to realize that even after years of sometimes strenuous study, I’ve barely scratched the surface of understanding. That’s why faith in God is so important, and required.

 

[Rightlydivided]

Lol, my great grand mother on my Father's side was full blooded.

Lol...my mom told me stories of how it was taboo for the soldiers to be involved with the Cherokee....my great grand father fell in love with one and they would meet in secret, later to become married 🙂

 

[Rightlydivided]

As a young Christian, a few decades ago, I marveled that the Apostles teaching of Scripture was “ALL” O.T. The N.T. is full of Grace and forgiveness, but it was simply the O.T. properly exegeted by the Holy Spirit.

I had always found that my several attempts at reading through the O.T. seemed to always end in frustration and getting bogged down in the many stories. Fast forward to a decade ago or so and “finally” a little light went off accompanied by a big grin.

God’s message has never wavered. It will never waver, but how He shared that unwavering message of love, forgiveness and accountability has been modified over the ages.

One thing that seemed to help me to understand our purpose was partially in response to studying the Angelic conflict, and the book of Job really helped to see that.

I understand that we all struggle with the concept of sin, but it is not the biggest issue, God is. It didn’t take me but about 40 years to figure some of this out, so I understand the struggle.

I also came to realize that even after years of sometimes strenuous study, I’ve barely scratched the surface of understanding. That’s why faith in God is so important, and required.

Good testimony🙂 I grew up with a militant father, who became a pastor.....it was very difficult as he lived by discipline....I remember the sermons, “your going to hell, if you don’t stop sinning” ....I only understood what I was taught....I lived in Adam all the time, feeling defeated when I sinned, thinking I could never make it. I watched this over the years, as my family and others became distant....I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t visit my cousins, all the kids I grew up with...I found out later that it was because of the judgement that was going through our families....as some family members struggled to show the fruit that was expected, others were more discipline to have an outward appearance of a Christian.....anyone that was seen to have sin, or spoke about others through gossip, was singled out. I understand that being in Christ, changes your life, and others want to see that.....but some struggle, and even though they struggle, they are no less a child of God, than someone who thinks themselves worthy of throwing stones, and treating others as a non believer.

 

[Sipsey]

Good testimony🙂 I grew up with a militant father, who became a pastor.....it was very difficult as he lived by discipline....I remember the sermons, “your going to hell, if you don’t stop sinning” ....I only understood what I was taught....I lived in Adam all the time, feeling defeated when I sinned, thinking I could never make it. I watched this over the years, as my family and others became distant....I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t visit my cousins, all the kids I grew up with...I found out later that it was because of the judgement that was going through our families....as some family members struggled to show the fruit that was expected, others were more discipline to have an outward appearance of a Christian.....anyone that was seen to have sin, or spoke about others through gossip, was singled out. I understand that being in Christ, changes your life, and others want to see that.....but some struggle, and even though they struggle, they are no less a child of God, than someone who thinks themselves worthy of throwing stones, and treating others as a non believer.

Amen! The real struggle is “accepting” real forgiveness, it goes against what most of us are taught from an early age. Once we realize true forgiveness, the battle then is the same one the Israelites had, “forgetting” what God had done and will do.

I used to laugh at Flip Wilson years ago when he did his many skits and would say, “The Devil made me do it.” We are much like that. We want to blame someone else for our problems, it comes naturally.

The one thing I got from studying the Millennium, is that Satan will be out of the picture, yet sin will still occur. Left to our own desires, most of us don’t have pretty hearts, but God is ever forgiving. That’s hard for most of us to truely accept, yet that is the only road to real peace, with God.

Forgiveness is at the heart of the Gospel and real joy in this life.

 

[Marcelo]

If an adulterer is in the church,and through a series of councils he repeatedly states that he sees nothing wrong woth it, is he met with grace or the 10 comandments?

IOW,how is sin dealt with with unrepentant christians?

" ....and he( God ) scorges every son he recieves."

Sounds like God invokes something other than grace in some instances

Kinda like the natural father and his children.

The paulines,i am sure, would modify my little concept.

A Christian can't say there's nothing wrong with adultery because Paul says it is wrong.

 

[Absolutely]

I take the word of God literally. God's word defines the term "twelve tribes." The term is defined as all the descendants from the twelve tribes of Israel. It's never, never, never used as Jewish Christians. God's word does not contradict. Leave the commentaries alone and let God's word teach.

It's obvious that unbelievers were at least part of the audience. They had yet to receive God's word and needed their souls saved.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

After the Lord is through with the Gentiles, the fullness of the Gentiles be come in, He will turn His attention back to the nation of Israel. This is where Hebrews and James fit into the overall chronology of the bible. The Jews will need direction during the tribulation. Hebrews and James points them in the right direction.

Can we learn important lessons from James? Absolutely, but the doctrine found within is to the Jews during the tribulation.

What specifally?
Elders don't apply?
Grace doesn't apply?
Praying for the sick?

Did the Holy Spirit make a mistake by putting James in the new testament?

 

[Absolutely]

A Christian can't say there's nothing wrong with adultery because Paul says it is wrong.

Where would paul get his yardstick?

Is paul God?

 

[Rightlydivided]

If an adulterer is in the church,and through a series of councils he repeatedly states that he sees nothing wrong woth it, is he met with grace or the 10 comandments?

IOW,how is sin dealt with with unrepentant christians?

" ....and he( God ) scorges every son he recieves."

Sounds like God invokes something other than grace in some instances

Kinda like the natural father and his children.

The paulines,i am sure, would modify my little concept.

I guess the first question would be, are you an adulterer?

 

[Absolutely]

That's not doctrine for us today. Spiritual or personal application, yes. But literal teaching? Nope.

Please read my comments before attacking. I said it has application and we can learn important lessons but it's not doctrine (commands by the Lord we are to take literal and follow).

So James wrote it apart from the Holy Spirit ,correct.

Or Shall we say the Holy Spirit was having a bad day?

 

[Rightlydivided]

Where would paul get his yardstick?

Is paul God?

Why do you keep speaking as though Paul’s words are not Christ’s?

 

[Absolutely]

I guess the first question would be, are you an adulterer?

Or we could just answer the question outside juvenile game playing

 

[Rightlydivided]

Or we could just answer the question outside juvenile game playing

I find yhat yes and no answers can lead to closure.....can you answer? Are you an adulterer?

 

[Absolutely]

Why do you keep speaking as though Paul’s words are not Christ’s?

Men moved on by the Holy Spirit wrote the entire bible,not Just Paul.

It is the word of God. All 66 books.
You see conflict. The bible in conflict.
I see it as Gods word to me. All of it

 

[Absolutely]

I find yhat yes and no answers can lead to closure.....can you answer? Are you an adulterer?

Go play your games with someone else.

 

[Absolutely]

Let's look at James 5.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

If the elders of the church today, pray over the sick and anoint them with oil...are they healed? The word in James says, "shall save the sick." No maybes, shall. Are the sins of the sick forgiven through the prayers of the elders?

This is not doctrine for us today. Pray for the sick? Yes. Always healed? Nope. Are sins of others forgiven through the prayers of elders? Nope.

Then salvation is not for us today.
Pray for salvation,yes
Always saved,no.

Therefore salvation is not for us today.