Does entering into Jesus' rest mean we're to give up the Sabbath day? Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law of God?

[know1]

Hi, I'm studying to shew myself approved unto God and I'm not certain as to whether the rest that still "remaineth therefore...to the people of God" (Heb. 4:9)--written to the Hebrews who were keeping the Sabbath day--was meant to say that they would have "another" rest as in "in addition" ("For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterwards have spoken of another day" - Heb. 4:8) or "another" as in "a different."

...Like if someone gave you one apple and then said, "I'm going to give you 'another' apple, and then they handed you a second apple ("another" apple), or if someone handed you one apple and then said, "I'm going to give you 'another' apple," and then took the original apple they gave you and then give you a different apple instead ("another apple"). Thanks

The rest spoken of in scripture has nothing to do with a physical rest, as in the day of rest or the kind where one does no work. That was under the system of the law.
To enter into God's rest, is to enter into the peace of God, as in, ceasing from worry and the pressures of life and such, and you can't have that without having faith in God to work things out for our good, or to them who love and are the called.
As an example, if you or a loved one becomes terminally ill, one enters into the rest of God when they ask God for their healing, according to the gospel of Jesus, and has a peace about the situation, KNOWING that God has answered their prayer of faith.
They are not worried, stressed out, fearful, or any of the like, because they have entered the rest of God.

 

[PS]

Wrong. They ceased
There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ALSO hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) ceased from our own works as GOD did from HIS. DONE DEAL!

CEASED FROM WORK LIKE GOD DID FROM HIS WORK. HE STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY SO WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) CEASED FROM WORK ON THE SEVENTH DAY ALSO, LIKE HE DID

Re-read Hebrews 4:8-10 and you will see there is another day [G2250] later on, that defined by its context, is for ever.

Heb 4:8-10
(8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
(9) So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
(10) for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

You are looking back, while I am looking forward to meeting with Jesus Christ who is my Sabbath rest, now and forever more.

I am resting in the eternal love of God, while you are resting, on one day a week, from your lifetime of daily toil.

 

[mailmandan]

No mention of the Sabbath. To assert Paul meant the Sabbath is to add what is not there. Incidentally it was a mixed Church he was writing to. Jew and Gentile. They were already ceasing from their own works as God did from HIS. They meet every Sabbath in the synagogues.

Is the Sabbath day a day? Romans 14:5 - "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:9-11 - "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17 - "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." *Fits together nicely.

God ceased from His work of creation, yet in John chapter 5, Jesus told a man to pick up his mat and walk and healed the man on the Sabbath day and when the Jews began to persecute Him, Jesus answered - “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working.”

*So ceasing from our own works as God did from His goes beyond merely keeping the weekly Sabbath under the law as I already thoroughly explained to you in post #337.

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
(Act 15:20-21 KJV)

Who would you expect to find in synagogues every sabbath day? Jews.

None of the other Ten were mention either. One also must consider to that their are many things written in the book of the Law (Moses) that are not mentioned in the New Testament. According to your theology Bestiality is okay now because it is not mention in the New Testament.

The other Ten (excluding the Sabbath) are already mentioned (moral principles reiterated) throughout the New Testament as I already explained to you in post #354. First you said "many things" written in the Law of Moses are not mentioned in the New Testament, then you only mention bestiality. No need for straw man arguments.

The Bible mentions bestiality in the Old Testament in (Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 18:23; Leviticus 20:15-16 and Deuteronomy 27:21). To sum it up “Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.” ... “Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.” ... “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” ... “Cursed is the man who has sexual relations with any animal.” From these verses, it's very clear that bestiality is a horrible and abominable sin! Why would we expect that to change in the New Testament?

Although the New Testament nowhere "specifically" mentions bestiality, it does mention sexual immorality (which is mentioned in multiple verses in the New Testament) in which beastiality would certainly fall under. While the death penalty aspect for committing beastiality from the Old Testament is not enforced in the New Testament, the fact that bestiality is still a horrible, perverted, and abominable sin is abundantly clear!

No you did not address any of the objective facts posted.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.

It is the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. Most translations ignore the definite article τοις (the) in the Greek and the fact that τοις and δογμασιν are in the Dative case. The Dative case dictates that the clause should be translated using the word "to".
As shown it should be translated as follows.

Handwriting to the ordinances
χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν

Which most definitely is not the ordinances. And only the handwriting to them which were against us.
That is the "natural" reading through the Spirit.

That's not the natural reading through the Spirit, but the indoctrinated reading through the SDA church.

I already addressed your "alleged" objective facts in post #334 and #362, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear and continue to fight against the truth.

Here are some links to articles that may help shed light on the truth for you. If not then I really can't help you any further.

https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Articles/lawstudy/Message9/tabid/467/Default.aspx

http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-sabbath/the-sabbath-in-colossians/#sthash.zRFwvlY1.dpbs

 

[Blik]

Yes,GODs law and GODs grace are both absolute truths but under law you would not be able to keep GODs law perfectly of your own strength and would fall short of the glory of GOD but grace AND TRUTH came came by JESUS and now sin Is not the Issue anymore but FAITH In the WORD Of GOD Is now the Issue

When the human mind puts these two truths together they get hopelessly mixed up. They are separate truths, each apart from the other. Grace is given completely apart from sin and based on faith. The only connection is the one that James speaks of in the book of James. But the works do not produce faith that grace comes from, grace is apart from works.

When humans mix up grace and works they say grace cannels works and preach against the works that is the result of faith.

To complicate this, Paul speaks of many different kinds of law and it is never clear what law Paul is speaking of. These is the ceremonial law that God gave to lead people to God's eternal law that is cancelled, legalistic law that is not God's law, and God's law. If people would read Paul and at the same time keep in mind the eternal truth of grace and working for the Lord they might get their head on straight.

 

[Blik]

Re-read Hebrews 4:8-10 and you will see there is another day [G2250] later on, that defined by its context, is for ever.

Heb 4:8-10
(8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
(9) So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
(10) for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

You are looking back, while I am looking forward to meeting with Jesus Christ who is my Sabbath rest, now and forever more.

I am resting in the eternal love of God, while you are resting, on one day a week, from your lifetime of daily toil.

If accepting the forgiveness that God gives through Christ cannels the need to honor the Sabbath, what all do you think that is of God that Christ cancelled? Do you think Christ replaced God in our world, a spin off from the old God is Dead?

If this is your belief, how do you explain that Christ said He cancelled nothing? Or that "I and the Father are one"?

 

[Blik]

Is the Sabbath day a day? Romans 14:5 - "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Are you fully confident that God did not create a Sabbath?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

What exactly does it mean to; remember the Sabbath and to keep it Holy.?
We have many ideas of what that means, based of off the works of the Pharisees, they had very strict rules as to what it was, but I think Jesus said something along the lines of, the Sabbath was made for men not men for the Sabbath. When they were picking grain and eating it as they walked by a field and one of those religious types had something to say about it.
So what is the intent?

 

[LPT]

Are you fully confident that God did not create a Sabbath?

Yup, a observation indeed, a creation Naa...

 

[seed_time_harvest]

When the human mind puts these two truths together they get hopelessly mixed up. They are separate truths, each apart from the other. Grace is given completely apart from sin and based on faith.

I agree,seems like those that want to try and keep GODs law feel that since the same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament Is the same GOD that spoke the New Testament and since GODs WORD doesn’t change and since GOD Is not the author of confusion HE would not have told people to keep the law If they could not keep It.

The thing Is that at the time the law was given JESUS had not yet been crucified and sin had not yet been paid for so then man would have at that time have to be righteous with their own strength and because of the weakness of mans flesh man would have come short of the glory of GOD,so then under law and before fullness of time of JESUS would need a savior because he would have had to be righteous In his own strength but Grace AND Truth came by JESUS.

Grace because man could not have been In right standing to GOD trying to keep GODs perfect standard of righteousness In his own strength and JESUS as a man fulfilled GODs perfect standard of righteousness and paid for our sins because HE had mercy on those that broke the law and HE satisfied the demand of the law that meant death.

He took back the power that was handed to satin and gives grace to all who believe In the WORD of GOD.

GRACE through FAITH.

 

[Tim416]

I agree,seems like those that want to try and keep GODs law feel that since the same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament Is the same GOD that spoke the New Testament and since GODs WORD doesn’t change and since GOD Is not the author of confusion HE would not have told people to keep the law If they could not keep It.

The thing Is that at the time the law was given JESUS had not yet been crucified and sin had not yet been paid for so then man would have at that time have to be righteous with their own strength and because of the weakness of mans flesh man would have come short of the glory of GOD,so then under law and before fullness of time of JESUS would need a savior because he would have had to be righteous In his own strength but Grace AND Truth came by JESUS.

Grace because man could not have been In right standing to GOD trying to keep GODs perfect standard of righteousness In his own strength and JESUS as a man fulfilled GODs perfect standard of righteousness and paid for our sins because HE had mercy on those that broke the law and HE satisfied the demand of the law that meant death.

He took back the power that was handed to satin and gives grace to all who believe In the WORD of GOD.

GRACE through FAITH.

When you think about it, the only law you need a saviour from sin concerning is the moral law, for the rest could faultlessly be obeyed. Therefore, without the moral law, you could be righteous under the law.
As for zeal, persecuting the church, as for legalistic righteousness, faultless Phil3:6 NIV 1984 edition

 

[seed_time_harvest]

To complicate this, Paul speaks of many different kinds of law and it is never clear what law Paul is speaking of.

There Is the law that GOD gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel and then there Is GODs grace and Truth which came by JESUS In the new covenant.

Paul wrote
Romans 7-10
King James Version


7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
+++
How was Paul alive once without the law?

Remember,sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.
So then what does It mean when he said when the commandment came sin revived and I died.

If sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law then for Paul to be alive once without the law he would of had to not know what sin was.

He was born under law so then how could he have been alive once without the law.

Answer=He would have not known that he was sinning because he was too young to know right from wrong but when he was old enough to understand that he was wrong the commandment was understood and sin was Imputed.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

When you think about it, the only law you need a saviour from sin concerning is the moral law, for the rest could faultlessly be obeyed. Therefore, without the moral law, you could be righteous under the law.
As for zeal, persecuting the church, as for legalistic righteousness, faultless Phil3:6 NIV 1984 edition

Why did JESUS even bother coming to earth?

 

[Tim416]

Why did JESUS even bother coming to earth?

Because man cannot be righteous under the law

 

[Tim416]

There Is the law that GOD gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel and then there Is GODs grace and Truth which came by JESUS In the new covenant.

Paul wrote
Romans 7-10
King James Version


7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
+++
How was Paul alive once without the law?

Remember,sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.
So then what does It mean when he said when the commandment came sin revived and I died.

If sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law then for Paul to be alive once without the law he would of had to not know what sin was.

He was born under law so then how could he have been alive once without the law.

Answer=He would have not known that he was sinning because he was too young to know right from wrong but when he was old enough to understand that he was wrong the commandment was understood and sin was Imputed.

At the age of ten I made a commitment to God. The law was then placed in my most inward parts. The first thing I noticed that was different in me was, I became conscious of my sin before God as I had never previously known(though I was raised in church) So I set out to obey God's laws(in effect) I believed then, my salvation hinged on it, for I had not read Paul's letters at that young age. If I wanted to attain to heaven, I must not commit sin/I must not transgress the law. But no matter how hard I tried to live a sinless life I could not do it. When I reached puberty, the problems only got worse. For along came impure thoughts. I honestly did not want them, but the harder I tried to resist them the worse they got. In the end, I was consumed by all manner of concupiscence. I wasn't happy as I had been before I made that commitment to Christ, for now I feared condemnation due, in effect to breaking the commandment: Thou shalt not covet.
Looking back at that time, how could I explain it?

I would not have known sin but by the law, for I would not have known the rottenness of lust, if the law had not said: Thou shalt not covet. But sin, took advantage of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in me. I had felt alive once before I made that commitment to God, for their was no condemnation then. But when the commandments came, sin revived(or sin consciousness sprang to life) and I died/felt condemned. The commandment I believed was ordained to life, if I obeyed it, instead brought death/condemnation, for I could not keep it.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Thank GOD the Issue Is now faith and not law keeping although a person that has been saved by grace through faith Will do good works.

 

[Blik]

What exactly does it mean to; remember the Sabbath and to keep it Holy.?
We have many ideas of what that means, based of off the works of the Pharisees, they had very strict rules as to what it was, but I think Jesus said something along the lines of, the Sabbath was made for men not men for the Sabbath. When they were picking grain and eating it as they walked by a field and one of those religious types had something to say about it.
So what is the intent?

We are to look to scripture and the Lord for instructions, not to people the Lord tells us no to follow like the Pharisees so it makes not difference what they did or didn't do, it is what scripture tells us. The rules the Pharisees made for following are not for us, scripture is for us.

God made the Sabbath for us and tells us the way we are to use His gift to us. People need to work for their food and shelter, scripture tells us to work six days in a week. For our benefit, scripture tells us we need a day of rest from this labor, and we are to spend it as children of God, for God to take care of us.

 

[LPT]

We are to look to scripture and the Lord for instructions, not to people the Lord tells us no to follow like the Pharisees so it makes not difference what they did or didn't do, it is what scripture tells us. The rules the Pharisees made for following are not for us, scripture is for us.

God made the Sabbath for us and tells us the way we are to use His gift to us. People need to work for their food and shelter, scripture tells us to work six days in a week. For our benefit, scripture tells us we need a day of rest from this labor, and we are to spend it as children of God, for God to take care of us.

What are some of the rules the Pharisees made?

 

[Blik]

There Is the law that GOD gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel and then there Is GODs grace and Truth which came by JESUS In the new covenant.

Paul wrote
Romans 7-10
King James Version


7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
+++
How was Paul alive once without the law?

Remember,sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.
So then what does It mean when he said when the commandment came sin revived and I died.

If sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law then for Paul to be alive once without the law he would of had to not know what sin was.

He was born under law so then how could he have been alive once without the law.

Answer=He would have not known that he was sinning because he was too young to know right from wrong but when he was old enough to understand that he was wrong the commandment was understood and sin was Imputed.

Grace did not come by Jesus, grace came by God at creation. We are saved by this grace through the shedding of innocent blood, a truth that was there from the beginning. Jesus is the fulfillment of that truth.

God's law is the holy way our earth operates and is both physical and spiritual law. Jesus did not change God, God is the I Am and Jesus is part of the I Am.

These are facts, and these facts do not change in any way that Sabbath was part of creation, it is a fact. We are to honor that fact.


5y

 

[Blik]

What are some of the rules the Pharisees made?

Those rules are not for us to follow. It was how far they could walk on the Sabbath, not to build fires on the Sabbath, etc.

 

[LPT]

Those rules are not for us to follow. It was how far they could walk on the Sabbath, not to build fires on the Sabbath, etc.

What rules I’m asking?