Are there two gospels or ONE?
- Thread starter Hevosmies
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So, let's replace "that is to the Jews" with "that was to the Jews".
Example: "obey the scribes and Pharisees". That WAS to the Jews.
Today both Jews and Gentiles are alike in God's eyes and neither have to follow the law of Moses.
The psalmist is speaking prophetic about the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts is referring to what already occurred. What's the point you're trying to make?
lol, it was a question,,(?) at the end of my post. Thank you though for the answer and in part I agree that David(Psalms) is a prophecy of Jesus Christ not suffering corruption or not decay so either it's intentions would be that he when he came would never die a physical death or else he would die and then be resurrected before his body decayed.
In Acts 2 Peter in quoting this from Psalms seems also to speak of the fulfillment of Jesus death burial and resurrection but from the point before this(Jesus death until A2) neither he nor the others seem to have understood this until Acts 2. Saul of Tarsus at that time(Acts 2) still did not understand the death burial or resurrection of Jesus Christ( he was holding the coats while they stoned Steven) and then afterwards speaks of it(Acts 13:35) but by Acts 9 would have and would have began to see it.
Its like you are getting at something.
Either speak plainly or put me on ignore or something.
One thing about personal testimony is that "you" weren't there.
Thank you Jesus.
Our mens bible study just finished James. The pauline guy that attends disrupted 90% of those meetings.
Out bursts of "that was written to the jews,not the church!!!!"
And
" look how it starts ,to the 12 tribes scattered abroad"
And
" thats the law"
We had to straighten him out every time.....to no avail.
The pauline deity phenomenon appears to be a spirit. Unreachable spirit.
They are stuck at the "salvation tree",endlessly obcessed with the " other gospel" and the boggeyman law.
But when paul invoked ordinances and rules and correction,he gets a pass.
James is to the church.
(The first church was jewish)
There is no gospel of the kingdom boggeyman
When God's word uses the term "twelve tribes" it is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole and never used for a called out group from that nation (as in Jewish believers). Twelve tribes is not a term used for the body of Christ. James is writing to the nation of Israel as a whole. To say otherwise is contradicting the rest of Scripture. Are you willing to do that?
If an adulterer is in the church,and through a series of councils he repeatedly states that he sees nothing wrong woth it, is he met with grace or the 10 comandments?
IOW,how is sin dealt with with unrepentant christians?
" ....and he( God ) scorges every son he recieves."
Sounds like God invokes something other than grace in some instances
Kinda like the natural father and his children.
The paulines,i am sure, would modify my little concept.
You have to assume James is so stupid ,he writes a christian letter to some orthodox non christian jews that would burn it on arrival.
In the 5th chapter he invokes the church,elders,grace,forgiveness,and the great commission.
Like i said,the 1st church was jewish.
When our pauline attendee started reading romans i blurted out " wait that was to romans"
James is a repulsive non anointed,non applicable writing to a pauline.
Why?
Because the bible is a different book to them.
Not THE WORD OF GOD.
They see it as men 1st,and them as flawed,trying to write as well as paul.
They don't see it as written by the Holy Spirit to me,the church.
That makes all non pauline writings as na and 2nd class.
They make the word in confict with itself. Not a building of revelation and knowledge,but a conflict.
Thats one of the most ridicilous things i've heard. That the book of James or Hebrews is "to the Jews in time of Jacob's trouble".
1. it was written in the 1st century
2. it was written after Jesus' death in the new covenant to people living under the new covenant, THEREFORE it cannot be "under the law"
3. If any time obedience is preached its "law" then we need to chuck the entire bible out the window, Paul does the exact same thing. Tune in to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, etc. Are those LAW also?
Im really glad to see you get it, Absolutely. Im also starting to agree with you that it appears to be a spirit, an unreachable one. No matter how easily its explained, it just wont sink in. Oy vey!
I take the word of God literally. God's word defines the term "twelve tribes." The term is defined as all the descendants from the twelve tribes of Israel. It's never, never, never used as Jewish Christians. God's word does not contradict. Leave the commentaries alone and let God's word teach.
It's obvious that unbelievers were at least part of the audience. They had yet to receive God's word and needed their souls saved.
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
After the Lord is through with the Gentiles, the fullness of the Gentiles be come in, He will turn His attention back to the nation of Israel. This is where Hebrews and James fit into the overall chronology of the bible. The Jews will need direction during the tribulation. Hebrews and James points them in the right direction.
Can we learn important lessons from James? Absolutely, but the doctrine found within is to the Jews during the tribulation.
You believe in our New Testament we have books written to Christ-rejecting jews, walking in the spirit of antichrist?
Oy vey!
1. So was the book of Revelation but it points to thousands of years down the road.
2. Not under the law
3. The Jews during the tribulation will have to live by works of obedience and faith in Jesus Christ. The antichrist will be on the attack and all who receive the mark will be damned for eternity.
The Jews will turn to their Messiah during the tribulation and will be in need of direction. During the Church Age, their eyes have been blinded. Read Romans 10-11.
1. It has doctrine for us today, the letters to the churches, as the message of it, obedience to God and living in a hostile world overcoming the beast in our generation
3. Uhh.. Everyone during every time has to live in obedience and faith to Jesus? No argument about the mark of the beast, but that effects GENTILES too.
HOW ON EARTH do you figure a book was written in the 1st century, and was absolutely USELESS until a small window of time two millennium later? And these jews are supposed to figure out during the tribuation that "yeah, these epistles of Paul here aint for us, its this book of James here". Thats just absurd.
If most of Christendom still doesnt buy that heretical belief, WHY would the jews in the tribulation do so?
This is exactly what Marcion was doing. Cutting up scriptures.
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO (AND ENCOURAGED TO) READ AND LEARN FROM OUTSIDE THE EPISTLES OF PAUL!
Paul does not disagree with the other Apostles, but rather they are in AGREEMENT. (check out Acts 15 for evidence)
But in the midst of this doctrinal debate, I hope you are OK John. How are you feeling today? I know you are going through hard times and I hesitate posting or arguing with you cause of it. God bless you and yours!
Let's look at James 5.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
If the elders of the church today, pray over the sick and anoint them with oil...are they healed? The word in James says, "shall save the sick." No maybes, shall. Are the sins of the sick forgiven through the prayers of the elders?
This is not doctrine for us today. Pray for the sick? Yes. Always healed? Nope. Are sins of others forgiven through the prayers of elders? Nope.
That's not doctrine for us today. Spiritual or personal application, yes. But literal teaching? Nope.
Please read my comments before attacking. I said it has application and we can learn important lessons but it's not doctrine (commands by the Lord we are to take literal and follow).
Thanks brother for asking. I'm halfway through radiation treatments, every day for five weeks. Trying to get into remission so I can receive a stem cell transplant. Haven't found a match yet, however. I think it's because I'm 1/8 Cherokee Indian. If you have Cherokee Indian in your DNA, sign up for the registry! Lol
I love Bible discussions. No worries.
Signs and wonders will play an important role during the tribulation for the Jews walk by sight. They trust God through signs. I believe the witnesses and 144,000 chosen will be preaching from Hebrews and James in particular to point their Jewish brethren to Jesus. They missed out on Him at His first coming, but will turn to Him upon His return.
I keep hearing that those that follow Paul’s words, are only looking to circumvent works/repentance....how is it, that those that accuse us of “trying to take their guns away” reconcile that the “planter and the waterer” are nothing, and God gives the increase? Within this tribal mentality, of treating a believer as a non beliver, all the while having a beam in their own eye, is this not the most dangerous thing one could do to the message and the sacrifice made on the Cross? Have they been blinded from the truth, similar to those of the twelve tribes, pertaining to applying a message not meant for them? Have they been given over to a reprobate mind?