Genesis, sons of God, nephilim, and Giants

[cv5]

Did the sons of God run out of daughters of God to marry.
I dont quite understand.

Why did Jesus say he was the son of Man, even when others knew him to be the son of God?

Not likely. God had to put and end to the entire scenario. Remember: there was extreme longevity back then, and the world was entirely salubrious (not so today), so evil men had plenty of time on their hands for mischief.....like tampering with the gene pool.

Jesus referred to Himself as Son of Man to lessen the outrage of the Jewish authorities. He would have been stoned many times over if He had not.

 

[cv5]

1 Peter 3

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they (the spirits in prison)formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

I think that should be quite conclusive folks. Unless 1 Peter is apocryphal and was written using Enoch as a reference.

 

[cv5]

Did the sons of God run out of daughters of God to marry.
I dont quite understand.

Why did Jesus say he was the son of Man, even when others knew him to be the son of God?

And don't be misled by the misunderstanding of a 6000 year creation. The fact is we have no idea when the Flood occurred......read these links.....

http://www.genevaninstitute.org/syl...rimeval-chronology-by-dr-william-henry-green/

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis_genealogies.html

The Flood could have happened 20K years ago. I am convinced it is more than 12K years ago, as there are obvious geologic formation that were built up post-flood, which took some time (10,000 years ??) to form.

 

[CS1]

1 Peter 3

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they (the spirits in prison)formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

I think that should be quite conclusive folks. Unless 1 Peter is apocryphal and was written using Enoch as a reference.

those spirits ( could also be man) was there Law when the flood came? which one? why would Jesus have to go and proclaim to angels in prison? Jesus was ETERNAL!!!! all angels KNEW who HE was Period. That is why this is foolishness . You have to limit Jesus for the crazy sex withangels thing.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the Law, because these things are pointless and worthless.

1tim 4:1
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Lanolin]

Ok let me get this straight the sons (plural) of God saw the daughters of men (plural) saw that they were fair and took wives of all they chose.

Adam was a son of God because hed been created right by God? Eve was a daughter of man right because she came from Adam? But then what happened.

So did Eve give birth to some daughters as well as sons? And they married each other...was this incest? Or was that ok back in those days for brothers and sisters to marry each other.

Why isnt it that each man goes to God and asks Him put me to sleep and create a wife for me out of my rib instead of marrying their sister?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[to cv5 ^ ] A quote by Gaebelein (which I have posted before) on 1 Peter 3:

[quoting]

"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection.

"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.

"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."

--Arno C Gaebelein, Commentary on 1 Peter 3

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm

[bold and underline mine]

 

[CS1]

I absolutely disagree. I think the CONTEXT is utterly and devastatingly clear:
-Sons of God vs daughters of men
-all flesh had corrupted itself on the earth
-Noah's seed was uncorrupted
-God destroys all men and all flesh upon the earth other than Noah and his family
and the specific animals God brings into the Ark (all assumed to be uncorrupted)

It doesn't get any more clear than that.

So when Jesus talked about the "as the days of Noah" that does not apply ? OOOooooook.

 

[Lanolin]

And don't be misled by the misunderstanding of a 6000 year creation. The fact is we have no idea when the Flood occurred......read these links.....

http://www.genevaninstitute.org/syl...rimeval-chronology-by-dr-william-henry-green/

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis_genealogies.html

The Flood could have happened 20K years ago. I am convinced it is more than 12K years ago, as there are obvious geologic formation that were built up post-flood, which took some time (10,000 years ??) to form.

Huh i havent mentioned anything about the timing in my post so not sure what you referring to.

 

[CS1]

Ok let me get this straight the sons (plural) of God saw the daughters of men (plural) saw that they were fair and took wives of all they chose.

Adam was a son of God because hed been created right by God? Eve was a daughter of man right because she came from Adam? But then what happened.

So did Eve give birth to some daughters as well as sons? And they married each other...was this incest? Or was that ok back in those days for brothers and sisters to marry each other.

Why isnt it that each man goes to God and asks Him put me to sleep and create a wife for me out of my rib instead of marrying their sister?

because we are in the state of sin and we came forth by sin and in sin Adam and eve were not made with sin they had to do the action of sin which was passed onto us.

 

[cv5]

those spirits ( could also be man) was there Law when the flood came? which one? why would Jesus have to go and proclaim to angels in prison? Jesus was ETERNAL!!!! all angels KNEW who HE was Period. That is why this is foolishness . You have to limit Jesus for the crazy sex withangels thing.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the Law, because these things are pointless and worthless.

1tim 4:1
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Excuse me, but the text is perfectly clear on the matter.

The term "spirits" used in 1 Peter 19 is NEVER associated with MEN.

https://biblehub.com/greek/pneumasin_4151.htm

This I think is quite conclusive regarding the link to he Genesis 6 phenomenon.

πνεύμασιν (pneumasin) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 4:36 N-DNP
GRK: τοῖς ἀκαθάρτοις πνεύμασιν καὶ ἐξέρχονται
NAS: the unclean spirits and they come
KJV: the unclean spirits, and
INT: the unclean spirits and they come out
1 Timothy 4:1 N-DNP
GRK: πίστεως προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ
NAS: to deceitful spirits and doctrines
KJV: to seducing spirits, and
INT: faith giving heed to spirits deceiving and
1 Peter 3:19 N-DNP
GRK: ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
NAS: and made proclamation to the spirits [now] in prison,
KJV: and preached unto the spirits in
INT: in prison spirits having gone he preached

 

[Lanolin]

because we are in the state of sin and we came forth by sin and in sin Adam and eve were not made with sin they had to do the action of sin which was passed onto us.

Is this why Jesus had to be born of a virgin.
Because...if he had been produced in the natural (fallen) way, rather than supernatural, he would have been born with sin.

Is this why people say they 'fall' in love. I never quite got why people said they 'fell' in love. Or 'fell' for each other. Couldn't they just love period.

 

[cv5]

Huh i havent mentioned anything about the timing in my post so not sure what you referring to.

Of course you didn't. But seeing your lack of comprehension spurred me into action.
The fallacy of Ussher's chronology must be rectified. Nothing is more of a stumbling block to gentiles IMO.

 

[CS1]

Excuse me, but the text is perfectly clear on the matter.

The term "spirits" used in 1 Peter 19 is NEVER associated with MEN.

https://biblehub.com/greek/pneumasin_4151.htm

This I think is quite conclusive regarding the link to he Genesis 6 phenomenon.

πνεύμασιν (pneumasin) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 4:36 N-DNP
GRK: τοῖς ἀκαθάρτοις πνεύμασιν καὶ ἐξέρχονται
NAS: the unclean spirits and they come
KJV: the unclean spirits, and
INT: the unclean spirits and they come out
1 Timothy 4:1 N-DNP
GRK: πίστεως προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ
NAS: to deceitful spirits and doctrines
KJV: to seducing spirits, and
INT: faith giving heed to spirits deceiving and
1 Peter 3:19 N-DNP
GRK: ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
NAS: and made proclamation to the spirits [now] in prison,
KJV: and preached unto the spirits in
INT: in prison spirits having gone he preached

 

[cv5]

Deut 2

The people of Lot and Esau both wiped out the Rephaim before settling the land....

“And we turned and went in the direction of the wilderness of Moab. 9And the Lord said to me, ‘Do not harass Moab or contend with them in battle, for I will not give you any of their land for a possession, because I have given Ar to the people of Lot for a possession.’ 10(The Emim formerly lived there, a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim. 11Like the Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim. 12The Horites also lived in Seir formerly, but the people of Esau dispossessed them and destroyed them from before them and settled in their place, as Israel did to the land of their possession, which the Lord gave to them.)

 

[JohnRH]

we don't see woolly mammoths either. many times when reading the book of Beginnings i.e. Genesis, we are not taking into consideration Moses is providing names and terms for man at the what is really not much time removed from the creation of man. Sons of god “Elohim” has more then one application the word can mean God, angel and man it depends on the context in which it is used. In Genesis 6 sons of god as angels does not fit contextual. Nor does the context of sons of God mean = God . So what does it mean in gen 6? If you are taking only one verse of chapter 6 in Genesis and building from that , instead of reading the full chapter that is error. Most who hold to the idea of angels having relations with women try to use Job account of “ sons of God “ in genesis 6. They are not even contextually the same. If one reads Genesis 6, and see how sons of god meaning men is contextually sound. Then add “angel” to it and take out “man”; genesis 6 now make absolutely no sense and takes away from the main context MAN sinned against God. And Judgement came. Jesus in Matthew when speaking of the days of Noah prior to his coming did not even speak of angels in context to Noah’s day but he did say marrying and giving in marriage which is what was happening in GEN the sons of God took for themselves the daughters of men. To what? To marry.

Good post.

I said earlier that the sons of God were saved men and that the daughters of men were unsaved women. But the more I think about it, it might just be a reference to men and women in general. In Psalm 82:6 it says of unjust judges who "walk on in darkness", "... all of you are children of the most High". And in Acts 17: 29 Paul says to unsaved men at Athens, "we are the offspring of God". In Luke's genealogy of Jesus, even though "the son" is in italics, Adam is "of God" the same way the sons are "of" their fathers in the list.

The term "sons of God" may be a reference to the created order, as opposed to the 'born again' sense. I can't rule either one out.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In Luke's genealogy of Jesus, even though "the son" is in italics, Adam is "of God" the same way the sons are "of" their fathers in the list.

Agreed.

And good rest of your post also.

 

[CS1]

Excuse me, but the text is perfectly clear on the matter.

The term "spirits" used in 1 Peter 19 is NEVER associated with MEN.

https://biblehub.com/greek/pneumasin_4151.htm

This I think is quite conclusive regarding the link to he Genesis 6 phenomenon.

πνεύμασιν (pneumasin) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 4:36 N-DNP
GRK: τοῖς ἀκαθάρτοις πνεύμασιν καὶ ἐξέρχονται
NAS: the unclean spirits and they come
KJV: the unclean spirits, and
INT: the unclean spirits and they come out
1 Timothy 4:1 N-DNP
GRK: πίστεως προσέχοντες πνεύμασιν πλάνοις καὶ
NAS: to deceitful spirits and doctrines
KJV: to seducing spirits, and
INT: faith giving heed to spirits deceiving and
1 Peter 3:19 N-DNP
GRK: ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν
NAS: and made proclamation to the spirits [now] in prison,
KJV: and preached unto the spirits in
INT: in prison spirits having gone he preached

You cannot take 1pet context and make it what you want in gen 6. clearly Jesus is the authority on the topic and HE said it was men. Your argument is with His words not mine.

Matthew 24: 37-39

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

Now as far as 1pet 3 you again take one verse out of context to make fit what is not there.

lets reread it shall we starting at verse 18


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

you take the word spirits from 1pet and make it angels ? yet it is not clear that is the case. why>?

1.So for you understanding to work Jesus had to die to save angels you cannot seperate that from 1pet 3


2. the spirits who were angels did not know who Jesus was whcih is speaking against the Eternal exsistance of Christ.
3. God had to wait for angels and wait patiently for an art to be built so save angels who would enter the Art if the repented?

Foolishness .

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Now as far as 1pet 3 you again take one verse out of context to make fit what is not there.

Agreed!


[me thinks one is reading too many fables ]


Let's be careful here...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ wanted to add this link to verse 20 :

https://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/3-20.htm

 

[cv5]

You cannot take 1pet context and make it what you want in gen 6. clearly Jesus is the authority on the topic and HE said it was men. Your argument is with His words not mine.

Matthew 24: 37-39

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

Now as far as 1pet 3 you again take one verse out of context to make fit what is not there.

lets reread it shall we starting at verse 18


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

you take the word spirits from 1pet and make it angels ? yet it is not clear that is the case. why>?

1.So for you understanding to work Jesus had to die to save angels you cannot seperate that from 1pet 3


2. the spirits who were angels did not know who Jesus was whcih is speaking against the Eternal exsistance of Christ.
3. God had to wait for angels and wait patiently for an art to be built so save angels who would enter the Art if the repented?

Foolishness .

I disagree on every point. The exegesis of 1 Peter 3 is unmistakeable. The term "spirits" is beyond equivocation. The link to total destruction of the age of Noah is beyond refutation. There is never any mention of "men" in an otherworldly "prison" anywhere in Scripture.

However this specific judgment is confirmed in…… 2 Peter 2:

The theme is perfectly clear: sexual sins committed by fallen angels now amplified by the warnings against similar sexual excesses and sins of like nature that God judged on the earth post flood. Its all here people. No wiggle room.

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell (prison) and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.