Praying in Tongues

[garee]

God doesn't call them one. He distinguishes them clearly in 1 Corinthians and in Ephesians.

Hi thanks for the reply...

If you would define each word separately so we can have better understanding .

He calls them as if they were one. They work to together as one work of Christ's faith. Can't have one without the other. What good would it be to have the word of God (prophecy) if there was no way to send the message? Apostles bring prophecy. He sends us out two by two to bring the gospel.

False apostles are false prophets

There isn't a single reference in Scripture to support your assertion that "tongues are prophecy".

Yet everywhere we see prophecy, Gods word it recognizes the tongue of God has spoken?

You're ignoring relevant Scripture and mixing up references again, making your argument ridiculous. You're hung up on the reference from Isaiah.

You ignored the question. What do you think the sign according to 1 Corinthian 14:21-22 confirmed and who is the sign in respect to ?Those who believe prophecy or those who refused to hear prophecy? Two choices . Which master?

And you seem to be hung up on removing the foundation of the doctrine of tongues (prophecy God's word in the different languages) Can we dismiss Isaiah 28 from the doctrine?

For with stammering lips (mocking lips) and another tongue (language other than Hebrew) will he speak to this people.(faithless Hebrews) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they (The faithless Jews God is mocking) would not hear. But the word of the Lord (prophecy tongues) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord,(prophecy tongues of God).. ye scornful men,(faithless Hebrews) that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:

I have given you my private interpretation in purple. Will you define the words I underlined according to your idea.

What does the sign confirm when looking at the law in 1 Corinthians 14 :21-2? Why keep avoiding the question? Is a tongues just a noise that is not understandable and that's why we can not agree on what it confirm and who the sign is against??

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

+++Rediscover praying in Tongues if you have lapsed. Even a few minutes a day will help open your spirit, increase revelation in the Word, and strengthen you...

Amen brother every day!!🤩

 

[garee]

The objective of this thread when I started it was only to encourage people to pray in Tongues. This encouragement comes from 40 years of seeking God. Whether you groan in the Spirit, pray in your native tongue, or pray in Tongues they all have purpose. This thread was not meant to cause division. If you don't pray in Tongues that's your business. We are not to forbid tongues or promote it in an unbalanced way. Again, I encourage those who speak in Tongues to activate this gift afresh. GRACE & PEACE

While I am not promoting division it where sparks can serve its purpose as iron sharpens iron. In that way Christ said he did not come to bring peace but division. From my perspective it more what are tongues? What that purpose? Where to we find the foundation that goes beyond forty years?

If we handle the doctrine of tongues in way that is not pleasing to God how will handle any doctrine of God? Look for the oldest private interpretation, as rightly dividing ?

 

[Hevosmies]

I do enjoy praying in tongues during my quiet time with the Lord. It is fabulous to just let the Holy Spirit speak freely over you!

It's not scary or weird at all. With the gift of tongues, you can pray, speak out loud or quietly in your head, sing and whisper.

If you put on some background worship music during your quiet time with the Lord and His Word (the Bible) and just start speaking quietly in tongues with the music...........................it just ushers you into the Throne Room quickly! It's absolutely wonderful!

I really don't worry about not understanding what I'm saying - I simply enjoy the "spiritual" massage in by body, soul and spirit. It's like God is cuddling with you and speaking words of edification over you.......

Sometimes, I will start hearing words in english (my native language) in my head as I'm speaking in tongues which is the Holy Spirit giving me understanding of what He is saying. Absolutely incredible words like..........."fear be silenced and hinder no more My precious child......feel the warmth of the fire of My love for you My darling.......you are strong and fearless......I AM with you......"

After one of these moments, I love to open up the Bible and begin to read..................incredible understanding and revelations....................

I highly recommend praying in tongues!

Im willing to bet everything I own you are not a dude (I hope). "My darling, "you are strong and fearless" That gave it away

 

[garee]

Amen brother every day!!🤩

How does praying in words with no understanding open your spirit, increase revelation in the Word, and strengthen you... ? What the purpose of speaking into the air? What does it confirm as a sign ?

So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.1 Cor 14:9

 

[Hevosmies]

As im reading through this....

"ushered to the throne room"

"opens up your spirit"

"increaseses revelation from the bible"


This is the charismatic experiental deal which im all too familiar with. I know I go to church with em!

Is it possible praying in tongues does all the things listed above? Sure.
But is there ANY Scripture for any of this?

 

[garee]

Scripture doesn't say that God "sent" Agabus... anywhere. It says that Agabus was a prophet, that he "came", and that he prophesied.

Acts 11:27-28 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)

Acts 21:8-11 Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied. After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

Nowhere is Agabus called an apostle. Twice he is called a prophet. Nowhere are Philip's daughters called apostles, yet they prophesied.

In 1 Corinthians 12:28-29 and Ephesians 4, "apostle" is a specific gifting and/or role. Your position is simply inconsistent with Scripture.

Your position is simply inconsistent with the definitions of the word. Apostle "sent one". Prophecy "the word of God or tongue of God" as that in which he sends them with. He does not send empty words speaking into the air. That's not prophecy.

Prophets are those who are sent.... giving rise to the meaning of a apostle. He sent a prophet named Agabus he came down from Judea Acts 21:8-11.

How beautiful are the feet of those he sends with his prophecy . Not how beautiful are the rear ends of those that do not move.

God sent the prophet apostle, Abel with prophecy . Cain murdered the messenger. Then God sent His son the apostle Jesus the Jews murdered him. They stoned the apostle Stephen.

 

[Dino246]

Scripture doesn't say that God "sent" Agabus... anywhere. It says that Agabus was a prophet, that he "came", and that he prophesied.

Your position is simply inconsistent with the definitions of the word. Apostle "sent one". Prophecy "the word of God or tongue of God" as that in which he sends them with. He does not send empty words speaking into the air. That's not prophecy.

Prophets are those who are sent.... giving rise to the meaning of a apostle. He sent a prophet named Agabus he came down from Judea Acts 21:8-11.

How beautiful are the feet of those he sends with his prophecy . Not how beautiful are the rear ends of those that do not move.

God sent the prophet apostle, Abel with prophecy . Cain murdered the messenger. Then God sent His son the apostle Jesus the Jews murdered him. They stoned the apostle Stephen.

Wow. You have mixed things up severely; it's no wonder we don't agree. How can we when you rewrite Scripture according to your own private interpretations.

The only thing in your post with which I agree is that apostle means "sent one". Even then, the context in 1 Corinthians and Ephesians strongly indicates something beyond merely "sent ones". It is a particular gifting from the Holy Spirit for a particular purpose within the church.

1 Corinthians 12:28-29 And God has appointed in the church , first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

The answer to those questions in verse 29 is a resounding NO! That means that apostles are not prophets and prophets are not apostles. The giftings are distinct. If the total meaning of "apostle" is is "sent one" then the gifting is meaningless.

 

[garee]

Wow. You have mixed things up severely; it's no wonder we don't agree. How can we when you rewrite Scripture according to your own private interpretations.

The only thing in your post with which I agree is that apostle means "sent one". Even then, the context in 1 Corinthians and Ephesians strongly indicates something beyond merely "sent ones". It is a particular gifting from the Holy Spirit for a particular purpose within the church.

1 Corinthians 12:28-29 And God has appointed in the church , first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

The answer to those questions in verse 29 is a resounding NO! That means that apostles are not prophets and prophets are not apostles. The giftings are distinct. If the total meaning of "apostle" is is "sent one" then the gifting is meaningless.

Hi thanks for the reply.

Yes if he is sent with nothing the total meaning of "apostle" is "sent one" then the gifting is meaningless being alone.

Luke 11:49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

I will send them prophets and apostles. Could be from looking at the context . I will send them prophets as apostles. they will bring the word of God, the teacher, one is our teacher in heaven. Just as one is our father in heaven. All of the works are attributed to God. he is not served by human hands he performed them according to the good purpose of His will they all work together as one.

If we would divide which would be slain as some of them? The Prophets or the Apostles. if it not prophets and apostles as all one work of God?

1 Corinthians 12:28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


1 Corinthians 12:29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?


Ephesians 2:20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Ephesians 3:5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


Ephesians 4:11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


2 Peter 3:2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:


Revelation 18:20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy "apostles and prophets"; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

[Dino246]

Hi thanks for the reply.

Yes if he is sent with nothing the total meaning of "apostle" is "sent one" then the gifting is meaningless being alone.

Luke 11:49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

I will send them prophets and apostles. Could be from looking at the context . I will send them prophets as apostles.

No, it could not be "prophets as apostles". The Greek text has the word for "and", not the word for "as". Don't twist the Scripture to make it suit your belief.

1 Corinthians 12:28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Ephesians 2:20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 3:5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 4:11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

2 Peter 3:2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Revelation 18:20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy "apostles and prophets"; for God hath avenged you on her.

It amazes me that you read the same Scripture that I do, and somehow you see the roles as one and the same, while I see them as clearly distinct.

Look specifically at the passage from 2 Peter: "words spoken before by the holy prophets". Before what? Before the time in which Peter is writing; the Old Testament prophets. Then we read, "the commandment of us the apostles". Of the prophets? No; of the apostles. When? In Peter's time!

They are distinct: prophets of old, apostles of "now".

The issue is not whether the message they share is from the same source or carries the same gist. The issue is whether their roles are the same. In Scripture, the roles are clearly NOT the same. Where in Scripture is Isaiah called an apostle? Or Agabus? Or Amos? Don't play silly semantic games saying they were "sent" to this or that group. Instead, look at what Scripture calls them. It calls them "prophets", not "apostles". When you take a definition and impose it where it isn't stated, you are engaging in eisegesis and are likely (definitely, in this case) to come up with incorrect conclusions.

One question I will ask you: since you believe that the revelatory gifts aren't operational today anyway, why do you continue to argue this issue as though they are?

 

[bygrace]

You simply read 1 Cor 12-14 with a bias. You read into the scripture not out of the scripture. You create a false doctrine and attack anyone who would dare to suggest that you are wrong.

Those who were outwardly religious hated the Lord Jesus. How much do you love Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

of course, to you it's bias. LOL No I have not attacked anyone. Yet you say foolish stuff as this garbage :

"Those who were outwardly religious hated the Lord Jesus. How much do you love Jesus?"

you go back and see no one has attacked you. You have yet from any of your posts to answer the following with scripture

1. where does it say the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended.
2. If the gifts are over Why did not Jesus say so and why did He say that the Holy Spirit would in with us and in us.

THen can you tell me as I see you dodge my question have you ever been corrected Biblical?

How much Do I love Jesus? What kind of question is that? If you are suggesting one hates Jesus because they do not agree with you , you really need to be banned.

 

[JaumeJ]

Forgive the interruption, but

of course, to you it's bias. LOL No I have not attacked anyone. Yet you say foolish stuff as this garbage :

"Those who were outwardly religious hated the Lord Jesus. How much do you love Jesus?"

you go back and see no one has attacked you. You have yet from any of your posts to answer the following with scripture

1. where does it say the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended.
2. If the gifts are over Why did not Jesus say so and why did He say that the Holy Spirit would in with us and in us.

THen can you tell me as I see you dodge my question have you ever been corrected Biblical?

How much Do I love Jesus? What kind of question is that? If you are suggesting one hates Jesus because they do not agree with you , you really need to be banned.

Except for the banned part I see nothing wrong with what you describe of the Word. Although Jesus did not say anything ( ithink) abut the gifts of the Holy Spirit it is in the Epistles and Jesus did forwarn all the Holy Spirit would come for all to learn from,.

As for banning Roger,, I believe, being a forum on Biblical understanding, people may be wrong or absolutely correct. I know Roger has frequently cackled at me, but then I caccled back. God bless you always and Roger too.

 

[bygrace]

Forgive the interruption, but



Except for the banned part I see nothing wrong with what you describe of the Word. Although Jesus did not say anything ( ithink) abut the gifts of the Holy Spirit it is in the Epistles and Jesus did forwarn all the Holy Spirit would come for all to learn from,.

As for banning Roger,, I believe, being a forum on Biblical understanding, people may be wrong or absolutely correct. I know Roger has frequently cackled at me, but then I caccled back. God bless you always and Roger too.

Jamumej every time this guy says the following in one way or another:

1. Those who were outwardly religious hated the Lord Jesus. How much do you love Jesus?

what is this some kind of subtle way of saying you are not saved or a Christian these
guys say we have demons or doing pagan practices? They use information from pagan source to disprove Biblical context. And we have demons LOL.
it is old. It would be OK if He had the courage to answer the Biblical questions asked of him if he will not then HE should not post in the thread. Roger clearly does not contribute his scriptural references are allegorizing, and not in context. He has not understood of proper exegesis. What has he offered in this thread what has he said that we can look at and study and see what is contextual?

I challenge you to find one. He is a troll. Please prove me wrong and show me one in this thread.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jamumej every time this guy says the following in one way or another:

1. Those who were outwardly religious hated the Lord Jesus. How much do you love Jesus?

what is this some kind of subtle way of saying you are not saved or a Christian these
guys say we have demons or doing pagan practices? They use information from pagan source to disprove Biblical context. And we have demons LOL.
it is old. It would be OK if He had the courage to answer the Biblical questions asked of him if he will not then HE should not post in the thread. Roger clearly does not contribute his scriptural references are allegorizing, and not in context. He has not understood of proper exegesis. What has he offered in this thread what has he said that we can look at and study and see what is contextual?

I challenge you to find one. He is a troll. Please prove me wrong and show me one in this thread.

Sometimes I think notuptome works to get our goat. He had mine for a while, but I let it go. Not to worry. I do not judge anyone because that is just wrong for me, but I do judge formyself, for myself, what is right, just as you are doing here.ñ God bless you, and I do believe we are as family.......j

 

[garee]

No, it could not be "prophets as apostles". The Greek text has the word for "and", not the word for "as". Don't twist the Scripture to make it suit your belief.

Which ones gets judged? The prophets or the apostles?

Luke 11:49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

It amazes me that you read the same Scripture that I do, and somehow you see the roles as one and the same, while I see them as clearly distinct.

Yes that is one difference . Not a salvation issue but I would offer more of "how can we hear God and rightly divide? If we change the meaning of one word we can change the ending. and violate the Deuteronomy 4:3warning not to add or substract from one word.

Look specifically at the passage from 2 Peter: "words spoken before by the holy prophets". Before what? Before the time in which Peter is writing; the Old Testament prophets. Then we read, "the commandment of us the apostles". Of the prophets? No; of the apostles. When? In Peter's time!

They are distinct: prophets of old, apostles of "now".

Yes old testament prophecy sent out with apostles (sent ones) is different than the new testament prophecy sent out with new testament words, apostles. (sent ones)

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The Hebrews used the word shalach (shaw-lakh')it means to send, sent messenger) It is used in the same way many times in the Old testament... sent out. The prophets name "Malachi" signifies "my messenger"; as a "sent one".

The issue is not whether the message they share is from the same source or carries the same gist. The issue is whether their roles are the same. In Scripture, the roles are clearly NOT the same. Where in Scripture is Isaiah called an apostle? Or Agabus? Or Amos? Don't play silly semantic games saying they were "sent" to this or that group. Instead, look at what Scripture calls them. It calls them "prophets", not "apostles". When you take a definition and impose it where it isn't stated, you are engaging in eisegesis and are likely (definitely, in this case) to come up with incorrect conclusions.

The issue is they cannot be separated like faith and works, they work together.

The Hebrew has a different word ( shalach ) in respect to those who he sends out with the gospel. If you are interesting in using the Greek word apostle which has the same meaning as shaw-lakh' .You could use (apostle) in the old testament and (shalach) in the new.

But when God set aside the twelve apostles to represent the one bride of Christ coming down as a city prepared as His bride. (new testament saints) He has set aside those who go out with the prophecies of God (apostles). And to represent the old testament bride (same bride)he used 12 gates, to enter in to represent the Old testament saints. Gates enter in. Apostles sent out. All one work

One question I will ask you: since you believe that the revelatory gifts aren't operational today anyway, why do you continue to argue this issue as though they are?

The revelatory gifts (His living abiding word) are operational today . He simply is not adding and any new revelations .Why do you continue to argue this issue as though there are new revelations after the last chapter Revelation? What's missing?

 

[Dino246]

Which ones gets judged? The prophets or the apostles?

Luke 11:49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

Why do you bring in these red herrings? Your question belies your position. Some of the prophets and some of the apostles will be persecuted and slain. It really isn't that difficult. They are separate roles.

Yes that is one difference . Not a salvation issue but I would offer more of "how can we hear God and rightly divide? If we change the meaning of one word we can change the ending. and violate the Deuteronomy 4:3 warning not to add or substract from one word.

Deuteronomy 4:3 says nothing about adding or subtracting. Check your references.

Yes old testament prophecy sent out with apostles (sent ones) is different than the new testament prophecy sent out with new testament words, apostles. (sent ones)

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

You're playing word games. Nobody in the OT is called an "apostle", and those who prophesy are called prophets, even in the NT. They are roles given by God, and the are not the same thing.

The issue is they cannot be separated like faith and works, they work together.

I never said they don't work together, and I'm not trying to separate them. I'm merely following Scripture, wherein I find it clearly taught that they are separate.

The revelatory gifts (His living abiding word) are operational today . He simply is not adding and any new revelations .Why do you continue to argue this issue as though there are new revelations after the last chapter Revelation?

I'm not. I have stated already that nobody is claiming that there are revelations given today that are to be considered additional to Scripture. Despite my having written that several times, you still think that's what I believe. Honestly, I don't think you're following this discussion carefully enough, which is part of the reason why you keep repeating the same refuted ideas.

You consider everything that God communicates to be Scripture... a biblically indefensible notion. I don't, so I have no problem with God communicating outside of (but not in contradiction to) Scripture today.

 

[garee]

Why do you bring in these red herrings? Your question belies your position. Some of the prophets and some of the apostles will be persecuted and slain. It really isn't that difficult. They are separate roles.

Which of the apostles do not bring prophecy?

 

[JaumeJ]

Why do you bring in these red herrings? Your question belies your position. Some of the prophets and some of the apostles will be persecuted and slain. It really isn't that difficult. They are separate roles.


Deuteronomy 4:3 says nothing about adding or subtracting. Check your references.


You're playing word games. Nobody in the OT is called an "apostle", and those who prophesy are called prophets, even in the NT. They are roles given by God, and the are not the same thing.


I never said they don't work together, and I'm not trying to separate them. I'm merely following Scripture, wherein I find it clearly taught that they are separate.


I'm not. I have stated already that nobody is claiming that there are revelations given today that are ading into be considered additional to Scripture. Despite my having written that several times, you still think that's what I believe. Honestly, I don't think you're following this discussion carefully enough, which is part of the reason why you keep repeating the same refuted ideas.

You consider everything that God communicates to be Scripture... a biblically indefensible notion. I don't, so I have no problem with God communicating outside of (but not in contradiction to) Scripture today.

Reading in Revelation we find the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy.

Prophecy is also praising God in Spirit and Truth.

Prophecy may be predicting something, but it is not necessary to be in the spirit of Prophecy.

Saul was overcome by the Holy Spirit and prophesied with the prophets…….ergo the sayin, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"

 

[garee]

Deuteronomy 4:3 says nothing about adding or subtracting. Check your references.

You are correct its verse 4:2.

 

[garee]

You're playing word games. Nobody in the OT is called an "apostle", and those who prophesy are called prophets, even in the NT. They are roles given by God, and the are not the same thing.

Not games words that describe.

Not the same as those who bring prophecy called sent ones? What is the role of one sent ?