Speaking in tongues

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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what a self-righteous person you are. "Only if you have experienced the second birth."

What an arrogant comment to make about people you do not even know. There has been sound Biblical doctrine provided. Apparently, you do not agree. You speak of sound doctrine yet you did not provide any to refute the understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the Bible does speak of death and no it is not good without a relationship with Christ. Christians do not fear death, so it is not a bad thing either.
Way to get your priorities all mixed up. Salvation is the most essential thing not gifts that are clearly abused when they become superior to adoration of the Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
You'll have to reconcile your misinterpretation of that verse with I Corinthians 1:7
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The gift of verse 4, 5 & 6. Not the gift you imagine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
Way to get your priorities all mixed up. Salvation is the most essential thing not gifts that are clearly abused when they become superior to adoration of the Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
never said it was you make up thing as you go.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
Sketch,
Just want to say that I've appreciated your posts as I started reading some recent pages. They're very insightful, and you seem able to avoid any personal jabs. Kudos.
-Kelby
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
Sketch,
Just want to say that I've appreciated your posts as I started reading some recent pages. They're very insightful, and you seem able to avoid any personal jabs. Kudos.
-Kelby
Thanks.
I'm not sure what the rules are, so I play in the middle of the playground.
The other kids play right up to the fence. -- lol

I appreciate the observations.
I didn't realize I was playing nice. No need to be nasty, I guess.
With encouragement like that I may keep up the good work.
Your post means a lot. Thank you for reaching out.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Thanks, and I agree that the gifts (including speaking in tongues) are still active today because the need is still here. In support of that idea I would point to Ephesians 4:11-13... verse 11 listing gifts (including prophecy), verse 12 stating the reason they are needed, and verse 13 stating how long they need to be here.

Because verse 13 hasn't been met, the purpose of verse 12 is still valid and the gifts of verse 11 are still needed. (as is also supported by anyone claiming teachers and preachers still exist).


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; <--("what" is given.)
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: <--(why they are needed)
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: <--(how long they will be here)

BTW, verse 13 clarifies that what is lacking is not a perfect WORD, but a perfect MAN (perfection in US, US perfect in him)

That's what I see about it.
-Kelby
Those are great points.
It should also be noted that the list makes a distinction between prophets, pastors and teachers. (separate offices)
Cessationists argue that prophecy means preaching now. That position disagrees with Eph.11.
Which is what you were saying. And I agree. Thanks.

Ephesians 4:11-13
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
He seems to be stuck on this idea that we are promoting extrabilical revelation.
Which is a complete misrepresentation of the Holy Spirit manifestation of prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:3
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

1 Corinthians 14:29-32
Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
Hello All. :)
I felt led to come back to the chat/forums so here I am. Am glad to see that speaking in tongues is still being discussed (I've got the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues). I'll start reading back to see what's the some of the discussion but would someone be willing to tell me what issue/question/statement is most important to them right now?

Thanks,
Kelby
I tried to introduce some discussion about the NT pattern of two baptisms. No takers.

In the book of the Acts we see a pattern of two baptisms:
1) Water baptism (followed by)
2) The baptism with the Holy Spirit. (typically administered by the laying on of hands)
Not necessarily in that order, or with the laying on of hands. See Cornelius and Pentecost.

Here below is the key text from my perspective.
- What were the new believers missing?
- How did they know it was missing?
- What was the needed solution?
- How was it administered?
- How did they know the believers had received it? (what evidence?)

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
Addendum to previous post.

Obviously the Cessatioists will argue that there is no mention of tongues and that this could only be administered by the original Apostles of whom they are no more. However as we read on we see this refuted.

- What did Simon see as evidence?
- What reason did Peter give for Simon not being able to have this ability?
- Was it because he wasn't an Apostle? Or some other reason?

Acts 8:18-24
When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” 24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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Thanks, and I agree that the gifts (including speaking in tongues) are still active today because the need is still here. In support of that idea I would point to Ephesians 4:11-13... verse 11 listing gifts (including prophecy), verse 12 stating the reason they are needed, and verse 13 stating how long they need to be here.

Because verse 13 hasn't been met, the purpose of verse 12 is still valid and the gifts of verse 11 are still needed. (as is also supported by anyone claiming teachers and preachers still exist).


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; <--("what" is given.)
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: <--(why they are needed)
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: <--(how long they will be here)

BTW, verse 13 clarifies that what is lacking is not a perfect WORD, but a perfect MAN (perfection in US, US perfect in him)

That's what I see about it.
-Kelby

Hi I would offer.

The perfect is debatable. it not as clear as what the sign of tongues represents or what it confirms. I suggest there are no laws missing in the book of the law, the Bible by which we could known God more adequately . No parts missing. Yet many say much is missing, the skies the limit have a experience etc. In the end the last chapter called a book Revelation remains the perfect. With the same warning of things being sealed till the end of time

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.1 Corinthians13:9-10

What part missing? A noise (prophecy) without meaning? or is that what the sign is against, confirming unbelief?

Yet for all that they still will not hear me Christ said. For all what other than prophecy I would ask?

Experience is not the validator of the unseen spiritual things .Prophecy (as it is written) alone is . Christ proved that in Mathew 4.

Today from my experiences it would seem to be the new age old age (from the garden of Eden) looking for an opportunity to make a appearance and draw men away from faith.


Like the question asks in Luke . When Christ comes in Spirit on the last day will he find faith or men with the experience of the imaginations of their own hearts as Genesis 6 typified as evil all the time (no faith) . Jesus says it is an evil generation that does seek after the things seen the temporal and not the eternal things not seen, the faith principle, called the law of faith

But if we look to the law pertaining to the sign usage through the scriptures as to how it apposes prophecy (walking by faith) we can decide what was the purpose of the sign what and it confirms, then looking at the perfect gives us a beginning place.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore "tongues" are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians

Why turn things upside down and walk by sight as if a our struggle was against flesh and blood the things seen???if its not against flesh and blood then flesh and blood cannot be a tool for defending the faith of Christ which does defend us.

Seems clear to me what is confirms. Looking to foundation of tongues in Isiah 28 gives us the reason why. Why those who seek after a signs and wonders gospel avoiding to look at the foundation seems to indicate something?

According to the law in respect to the "sign of tongues" and not the outcome of tongue "prophecy " as two different things .One blesses the other show a curse what does the sign confirm and who is the sign in respect to?

Signs appose faith that alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures. Jesus says it a evil generation that does seek after one but none were given but the sign of Jonas which has been fulfilled . Why seek after one before one will believe. Is experiencing a work we perform the new gospel? Or do all die not receiving the promise so we continue to walk by faith till the end.( Hebrews 11:38)

Again no one said prophecy in respect to the whole bible has ceased and neither has the sign against those who refuse to believe God . it is still a sign against those who will not believe prophecy but will do whatsoever their own mouth says . God mocking the Jew who mocked him by bringing new revelation in other languages of other nations.

The possibility of adding to the scriptures with some idea that tongues confirm a person believes God shows they turn things upside down and take away the understanding what the sign represents.