Speaking in tongues

[garee]

How many times do we have to tell you that we are not using the manifestations of the Holy Spirit for confirmation?
We are using them be cause we are already convinced. As opposed to you who is not there yet.

Convinced of what a sign that offers no understanding ? Convinced like children beating a kettle with a wood spoon that someone heard it?

For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.1 Corinthians 14

What does the sign confirm according to the law found in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22?

What do I have to do to get there? Make a noise have someone put their hand on me and I fall backward ? What is the fulness of the gospel? Speaking into the air? I think it means we can believe God not seen . Need more ?

 

[garee]

Do you make a noise when you break wind?
If so, what does it mean?

Too much cabbage ?

I would guess something is moving. Whether its to fast or to slow you could get a speeding ticket. What it is and where it is going only God knows.

 

[Dino246]

Now if only that was what was going on in the modern church.

We have 1 Cor 13:8 to reconcile with the modern movements of Pentecostalism and the charismatics.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Only if you believe "the perfect" refers to the canon of Scripture. Otherwise, there is no problem.

 

[Dino246]

Not discontent with the unseen work of spiritual, unseen gifts. Just the idea of sign as that seen as gifts are used confirm a person made a noise without understanding or got wet with water or placed a hand on someone saying it could heal .

Fallacy: straw man. Your continued misrepresentation of the position of others is silly. That you refuse to listen and learn from others about what they believe is just sad.

No such thing as "sign gifts"

Refuted. Repeatedly.

The two words (sign gift) never become one.

That is not sound hermeneutics. The words are both used in reference to tongues and prophecy. The word "trinity" doesn't appear in Scripture either; do you reject the doctrine of the Trinity?

The lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh bringing the false pride of this life.

Wrong. All three come from the world. The third is not the result of the first two:

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

Signs throughout the scripture represent those who refuse to believe prophecy alone. Signs follow after and not lead a person to work make a noise and say it confirms something .

Using only Scripture, I soundly refuted this ridiculous idea a couple of pages back.

It was the whole purpose of the rod or staff as sign of rebellion against those who would not believe the prophecy of Abraham 400 years earlier. Because they refused to believe God unseen God brought a signs and wonders against them who had no faith coming from prophecy

Wrong again. Psalm 23:4 Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.

Outward signs are a token against the rebels that refuse to hear prophecy . not to confirm prophecy but confirm those who refuse to believe (have faith)

Refuted. Please stop repeating rank error.

Again on another occasion a sign against those who refuse to hear the word of God, prophecy. This time the sign came against Moses who would not be allowed to enter the promised land as a sign against him. Moses adding to prophecy striking the rock twice. As if the law of God represented by Moses in respect to the father striking Christ (Isaiah 53) the Rock more than once as in double jeopardy.

Wrong yet again. Moses was denied entry to the promised land because he STRUCK the rock when he was told to SPEAK to the rock:

Numbers 20:7-12 The Lord said to Moses, “Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink.” So Moses took the staff from the Lord’s presence, just as he commanded him. He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, “Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?” Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank. But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”

When is the last time you heard men gathering together from all the nations of the world only knowing their own language and have the ability to commune with whosoever they desired without a literal interpreter .

This doesn't happen. It didn't even happen in Acts 2. There, the Holy Spirit gave them utterance; it had nothing to do with "whosoever they desired". You're going above what is written... again.

 

[Dino246]

Prophecy the living, abiding, word of God that exist has not ceased. I am rather talking about new prophecy to confirm a personal experience . Like those that asy the lord gave me had a dream to confirm I believe or prophecy in another language other that Hebrew or a what some call out of the body vision . We are warned beforehand believe not(no faith)

You keep repeating this codswollop, yet you avoid supporting it from Scripture.

Either back up your assertions with Scripture, or stop posting them.

 

[Dino246]

No sin. we have the full gospel beginning in Genesis 1 ending in Revelation 22.....amen. Is there something missing? A law by which we could know him more adequately? If so than everyone that does not make a noise without meaning is in Big trouble.

I shake my head.

 

[bygrace]

No not closed sealed .

Prophets sent as apostles still prophesy the living abiding word of God. Numbers are being added as he applies the work of salvation to their hearts .

And not as a amputee. We have the perfect or whole body of truth with nothing missing by which we could know Him more adequately, with a warning not to add or subtract.

It would seem those who do insist on adding making experience the new validator of the spiritual unseen . Must leave the window open to receiving a strong delusion from God so they can keep looking to the things seen and not the things not seen . The elect are warned before hand making it not possible to be deceived by false prophecy (additions to the whole)


Jesus says its a "evil generation" as natural converted man does require a sign before they will exercise faith (coming from the experience).

Why gamble?

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2 Thess 2:9-11

this is constant false narrative and taking out of context " Jesus says its a "evil generation" as natural converted man does require a sign before they will exercise faith (coming from the experience)."

this was written to those who would not believe unless you proved to them. IF you be the Son of God come down from the Cross.

That is not faith. Those who are Christians seeking the gifts of the Holy Spirit as instructed to do in 1cor chapters 12 to 14 are not a perverted adulterous generation Jesus was speaking about.

 

[garee]

I shake my head.

LOL I can hear the wind. Slow down not to hard.

 

[garee]

You keep repeating this codswollop, yet you avoid supporting it from Scripture.

Either back up your assertions with Scripture, or stop posting them.

I have offered scripture? (Behold, I have told you )

Christ commands the elect that obey it they will not be deceived.It must have something to with the 1 Corinthians 13 passage .prophecy ceases new knowledge that could come from it done away

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, "if it were possible", they shall deceive the very elect.Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be Mathew 24: 23-27

Will the coming of the Son of man be visible or has that perfect already came . And there was only one promised fleshly demonstration of the Spirit of Christ in the corruptible flesh of man?

The perfect to come is represented by the warnings not to add or subtract from the whole . The elect cannot be deceived, we are told beforehand new prophecy will cease .It would seem the elect guard the faith of Christ working in them that protects them. Its the kind of armor we put on and do not take off and no armor for the rear

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.revelation 22:18-21

Amen?

 

[Dino246]

I have offered scripture? (Behold, I have told you )

Christ commands the elect that obey it they will not be deceived.It must have something to with the 1 Corinthians 13 passage .prophecy ceases new knowledge that could come from it done away

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, "if it were possible", they shall deceive the very elect.Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be Mathew 24: 23-27

Will the coming of the Son of man be visible or has that perfect already came . And there was only one promised fleshly demonstration of the Spirit of Christ in the corruptible flesh of man?

The perfect to come is represented by the warnings not to add or subtract from the whole . The elect cannot be deceived, we are told beforehand new prophecy will cease .It would seem the elect guard the faith of Christ working in them that protects them. Its the kind of armor we put on and do not take off and no armor for the rear

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.revelation 22:18-21

Amen?

Mixing unrelated out-of-context verses is not a sound method of interpreting Scripture. You are missing THE key concept when it comes to false signs, wonders, and prophecy: calling the hearers to other gods.

Nobody is advocating following false Christs. You think others are, because it makes such straw man misrepresentations of the positions of others easier to refute. It's invalid.

Either properly represent what others claim, or stop making the assertions of that sort. All you are doing is clanging a cymbal.

 

[bygrace]

We all have experiences. But beleivers have been given the gift of faith, previously having none . Freely he gives, freely we have received. They only need one source of faith. The faith of Christ as it is written the faith that comes from hearing God not seen .

But when someone tells me they were about to cut themselves and were physically dragged away, at the same time the Spirit is telling me someone was in danger and needed intercession I have to decide what the Holy Spirit would have me to do, and hope I might be strengthened to preform it .

Jesus in Mathew 4 avoided the dangers (Colossians 2:17-18) that come from experiences before they happened (Jesus refused to believe)

Three time with three denoting the end of the matter Christ said again and again ….as it is written with it representing the final authority of God and the devil was out of the picture. We look to Christ our example to fulfill the loving commandment of God …"Let no man beguile you of your reward"

Colossians 2:17-18 King James Version (KJV) "Let no man beguile you of your reward" in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God

Experience seems to be part of the new age gospel. Have a dream, have a out of the body experience or a near death or possibly coming back from the dead the skies the limit believe .

Actions follow signs .We don't seek after sign to confirm action of someone not seen as someone was in danger and needed intercession only because as a sign we put there by our actions. Like make a noise. Lay on a hand .

Just saying of a book as a perfect law of God that quickens our spirits giving us his understanding working in us with us to both will and do His good pleasure as a living adding word. The authority that does not return void of the purpose God sends it. It is able to judge the intends of any mans thoughts. Like Jesus when tempted by the father of lies was moved to not believe.

The sign that in the authority of or name of Christ, that Christ's words as the gospel would cast out demons and that men, and others spoke in languages other that Hebrew will bring prophecy, or they when looking at false prophecy as the poison coming from the mouth of the father of lies, a serpent. It will not effect those who do not go above that which is written, as they desire that God would heal them with His hand, that His will would be done on earth as it is loosened from heaven in a hope they will recover

Mark 16:16-17 King James Version (KJV) And these "signs" shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Signs follow not lead. Prophecy leads those who follow God not seen .

I did not say we do not experience but rather it will not be confirmed until we receive our new incorruptible bodies, all saints die not receiving it. We have a living Hope that moves us towards the goal, a hope that surpasses human hope

a very strange statement here:


"I did not say we do not experience but rather it will not be confirmed until we receive our new incorruptible bodies, all saints die not receiving it. We have a living Hope that moves us towards the goal, a hope that surpasses human hope"

 

[KelbyofGod]

Hello All.
I felt led to come back to the chat/forums so here I am. Am glad to see that speaking in tongues is still being discussed (I've got the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues). I'll start reading back to see what's the some of the discussion but would someone be willing to tell me what issue/question/statement is most important to them right now?

Thanks,
Kelby

 

[bygrace]

Mixing unrelated out-of-context verses is not a sound method of interpreting Scripture. You are missing THE key concept when it comes to false signs, wonders, and prophecy: calling the hearers to other gods.

Nobody is advocating following false Christs. You think others are, because it makes such straw man misrepresentations of the positions of others easier to refute. It's invalid.

Either properly represent what others claim, or stop making the assertions of that sort. All you are doing is clanging a cymbal.

I would have no problem with those who say tongues is not for today IF they held that all the gifts of The Holy Spirit. Yet those who say the context of 1cor 13:10 "But when that which is perfect come, then that which is in part shall be done away." this does not mean when the bible was created tongues would be done away with. FYI the written word was already done in Hebrew and the Word of God was Perfect then as it is now.

 

[bygrace]

Hello All.
I felt led to come back to the chat/forums so here I am. Am glad to see that speaking in tongues is still being discussed (I've got the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues). I'll start reading back to see what's the some of the discussion but would someone be willing to tell me what issue/question/statement is most important to them right now?

Thanks,
Kelby

the most important thing in context to this thread is the Context of 1cor chapter 12 to 14 are to seen as unit chapters. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not done away with nor has anyone proved any verses to show they are stopped or not for today.

 

[garee]

this is constant false narrative and taking out of context " Jesus says its a "evil generation" as natural converted man does require a sign before they will exercise faith (coming from the experience)."

this was written to those who would not believe unless you proved to them. IF you be the Son of God come down from the Cross.

That is not faith. Those who are Christians seeking the gifts of the Holy Spirit as instructed to do in 1cor chapters 12 to 14 are not a perverted adulterous generation Jesus was speaking about.

Faith is not absent from doubt. it is not the opposite of faith. The counterfeiter the father of lies would make it all one and the same. Unbelief "no faith" is the opposite.

I think the scriptures use the word generation or beginning in respect to two beginnings. (1) The generation of Adam... having no faith that could please God or called the evil generation. And the generation of Christ the new creation as those who are freely given the faith of Christ that does work in them as a imputed righteousness, confirming they have heard God as he gives the churches ears to hear..

Faith has to with that not seen the eternal . Natural man the temporal has none, not little nothing. Its the reason the Son of man Jesus in John 6 informs us his flesh as that seen profits for nothing, not little nothing

The description for finding the mysteries as spiritual understand hid in parables it is found under the prescription given to us in 2 Corinthians 4:18 .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians4:18

Without parables Christ spoke not. he gives us the prescription we need to the work in order to hear the signified language of God hidden from natural man (no faith) .

The Holy Spirit remains in His holy unseen place . trying to place a image tin the Holy Place of the temporal is the abomination of desecration spoken of in Daniel .

God concluded all of the Elect as in no faith that he might by a work of his faith or labor of His love have mercy on the same all

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[KelbyofGod]

the most important thing in context to this thread is the Context of 1cor chapter 12 to 14 are to seen as unit chapters. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not done away with nor has anyone proved any verses to show they are stopped or not for today.

Thanks, and I agree that the gifts (including speaking in tongues) are still active today because the need is still here. In support of that idea I would point to Ephesians 4:11-13... verse 11 listing gifts (including prophecy), verse 12 stating the reason they are needed, and verse 13 stating how long they need to be here.

Because verse 13 hasn't been met, the purpose of verse 12 is still valid and the gifts of verse 11 are still needed. (as is also supported by anyone claiming teachers and preachers still exist).


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; <--("what" is given.)
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: <--(why they are needed)
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: <--(how long they will be here)

BTW, verse 13 clarifies that what is lacking is not a perfect WORD, but a perfect MAN (perfection in US, US perfect in him)

That's what I see about it.
-Kelby

 

[bygrace]

Faith is not absent from doubt. it is not the opposite of faith. The counterfeiter the father of lies would make it all one and the same. Unbelief "no faith" is the opposite.

I think the scriptures use the word generation or beginning in respect to two beginnings. (1) The generation of Adam... having no faith that could please God or called the evil generation. And the generation of Christ the new creation as those who are freely given the faith of Christ that does work in them as a imputed righteousness, confirming they have heard God as he gives the churches ears to hear..

Faith has to with that not seen the eternal . Natural man the temporal has none, not little nothing. Its the reason the Son of man Jesus in John 6 informs us his flesh as that seen profits for nothing, not little nothing

The description for finding the mysteries as spiritual understand hid in parables it is found under the prescription given to us in 2 Corinthians 4:18 .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians4:18

Without parables Christ spoke not. he gives us the prescription we need to the work in order to hear the signified language of God hidden from natural man (no faith) .

The Holy Spirit remains in His holy unseen place . trying to place a image tin the Holy Place of the temporal is the abomination of desecration spoken of in Daniel .

God concluded all of the Elect as in no faith that he might by a work of his faith or labor of His love have mercy on the same all

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

faith is not absent from doubt? what an unbiblical statement. it is God who gives to every man the measure of faith. You are suggesting One who has come to the saving knowledge of Christ can in some way be led to counterfeit faith? How foolish. The Holy Spirit remains in His unseen place? what a joke. Did you read John chapter 3 Jesus our Lord speaking about the effects of the wind blowing?


trying to place a image tin the Holy Place of the temporal is the abomination of desecration spoken of in Daniel .

really? You need to stop allegorizing the word of God. I cannot have a discussion with you anymore you are very close to blaspheming. I can only hope you do not cause others to stumble with your unbiblical over spiritualizing of scriptures that you use out of context more often then not.

 

[KelbyofGod]

1cor chapter 12 to 14 are to seen as unit chapters.

May I ask what you mean by "unit chapters"?

 

[bygrace]

Thanks, and I agree that the gifts (including speaking in tongues) are still active today because the need is still here. In support of that idea I would point to Ephesians 4:11-13... verse 11 listing gifts (including prophecy), verse 12 stating the reason they are needed, and verse 13 stating how long they need to be here.

Because verse 13 hasn't been met, the purpose of verse 12 is still valid and the gifts of verse 11 are still needed. (as is also supported by anyone claiming teachers and preachers still exist).


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; <--("what" is given.)
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: <--(why they are needed)
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: <--(how long they will be here)

BTW, verse 13 clarifies that what is lacking is not a perfect WORD, but a perfect MAN (perfection in US, US perfect in him)

That's what I see about it.
-Kelby

I agree chapter 13 is speaking of the mature believer operating in love and using the gifts for and in love. The main theme for chapter 13 of 1cor is Love not the removal of tongues lol or prophesying.

 

[bygrace]

May I ask what you mean by "unit chapters"?[/QUOTE


Yes, the bible original writings of the new and old did not have verses numbered. when a chapter has ended that does not mean the subject or storyline has completed. the example Jesus Olivet Discourse found in Matthew 24 and 25. the context of Matthews chapter 5 to 7is another in 1cor chapter 11 to 14 or 12-14 is the contextual application. When Paul says in 1cor 12:4 concerning spiritual gifts he does not conclude His instruction of this until the last verse in chapter 14 with verse 40. many of the proponents and opponents for the gifts of the Holy Spirit use a verse here or there in each of the chapters to prove or disprove their theological position. That is not how to study the word of God.