Not By Works

[preacher4truth]

And John Calvin would be absolutely wrong..

Calvin never said that, it's undocumented and false. Not that some would care about that fact.

 

[Hevosmies]

Calvin never said that, it's undocumented and false. Not that some would care about that fact.

Better yet who cares what Calvin said. I've never understood how that is supposed to refute calvinism in some way. Thats kind of like digging up some dirt on Luther and saying the protestant reformation was just a hoax or the great falling away or something.

Back to Rome people, Luther sinned. In other news, water is wet.

You could actually even use that kind of argumentation to throw away much of the Bible, since most writers also did some questionable stuff. Psalms is out cause of David's adultery, The Torah is out, etc. etc.

I believe calvinism was more of a negative connotation word put on the doctrine and its followers. I doubt calvin called any of the people he was teaching calvinists or anything like that.
Churches of Christ are also called campbellites often times. Same thing.

 

[preacher4truth]

John Calvin himself said; "There are babies a span long in hell."

Soooo...there are 9" long babies in hell? Okey dokey... That would definitely refute brother PennEds Nephilim theory! Lol!

 

[preacher4truth]

Better yet who cares what Calvin said. I've never understood how that is supposed to refute calvinism in some way. Thats kind of like digging up some dirt on Luther and saying the protestant reformation was just a hoax or the great falling away or something.

Back to Rome people, Luther sinned. In other news, water is wet.

You could actually even use that kind of argumentation to throw away much of the Bible, since most writers also did some questionable stuff. Psalms is out cause of David's adultery, The Torah is out, etc. etc.

I believe calvinism was more of a negative connotation word put on the doctrine and its followers. I doubt calvin called any of the people he was teaching calvinists or anything like that.
Churches of Christ are also called campbellites often times. Same thing.

We've all committed heinous sins against God and that's a fact!

 

[Budman]

And John Calvin would be absolutely wrong..

Calvinism itself is wrong.

1 John 2:2 says Jesus is..."the propitiation for our (believers) sins; And not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Calvinists say Jesus only paid for the sins of the elect - meaning just them.

Hebrews 2:9 says "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man."

Calvinists say Jesus only tasted death for the elect - meaning just them.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 says "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all."

Calvinists says Jesus was only a ransom for the elect - meaning just them.

Romans 5:18 says "Therefore, as by offense of the one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so, by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

Calvinists say the free gift is only for the elect - meaning just them.

Romans 11:32 says "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all."

Calvinists say God only has mercy for the elect - meaning just them.

 

[Budman]

Soooo...there are 9" long babies in hell? Okey dokey... That would definitely refute brother PennEds Nephilim theory! Lol!

span1
/span/
noun

1. the full extent of something from end to end.

 

[VCO]

Nephilim were around after the flood...Numbers 13:33, so how are they of the descendants of fallen angels when only Noah’s lineage survived the flood, my friend?

Good Point.

Numbers 13:33 (HCSB)
33 We even saw the Nephilim there—the descendants of Anak ⌊come⌋ from the Nephilim! To ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and we must have seemed the same to them.”

Numbers 13:33 giants.

This term was used in Genesis 6:4 for a group of strong men who lived on the earth before the flood. The descendants of Anak were, in exaggeration, compared to these giants, which led the spies to view themselves as grasshoppers before them.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Numbers 13:33

The Nephilim (this word occurs only here and in Gen. 6:4; see comments there) were of great size; and the Anakites (cf. Num. 13:22), who descended from the Nephilim, were also "strong and tall" (Deut. 9:2).
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

13:33 Ten of the spies had the wrong perspective. They saw themselves as the inhabitants of Canaan saw them (like grasshoppers). Joshua and Caleb saw Israel from God's point of view, well able to conquer the land. To the ten unbelieving spies the problem of giants was insurmountable. To the two believing spies the presence of giants was insignificant.


Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

It would appear it is a reference to their GREAT SIZE, and NOT a common descendants. It appears to me it is a SYNONYM for GIANTS.

 

[VCO]

Wait a minute, back up the truck and put it in park..

Jesus is our ONLY mediator. And unless I'm missing something, He is the ONLY one who offers salvation. Other than God.

They are ONE and the SAME.


2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[preacher4truth]

span1
/span/
noun

1. the full extent of something from end to end.

Ya think? "End to end" of what? It is the measurement of a man's hand from finger tip to thumb. No wonder you stumble with context and read things into statements that aren't there. The above is proof.

 

[dcontroversal]

In Exodus 28, we see the garment that Aaron was to wear as he interceded for the people of God, the OT Jews. In verses 4-12...

4 "These are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece and an ephod and a robe and a tunic of checkered work, a turban and a sash, and they shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother and his sons, that he may minister as priest to Me. 5 They shall take the gold and the blue and the purple and the scarlet material and the fine linen.
6 “They shall also make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen, the work of the skillful workman. 7 It shall have two shoulder pieces joined to its two ends, that it may be joined. 8 The skillfully woven band, which is on it, shall be like its workmanship, of the same material: of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen. 9 You shall take two onyx stones and engrave on them the names of the sons of Israel, 10 six of their names on the one stone and the names of the remaining six on the other stone, according to their birth. 11 As a jeweler engraves a signet, you shall engrave the two stones according to the names of the sons of Israel; you shall set them in filigree settings of gold. 12 You shall put the two stones on the shoulder pieces of the ephod, as stones of memorial for the sons of Israel, and Aaron shall bear their names before the LORD on his two shoulders for a memorial." Aaron was to bear their names upon his shoulders, just as Jesus bore our sins upon Himself when He died and rose again for us, His sheep.

Then in verses 15-21...

“You shall make a breastpiece of judgment, the work of a skillful workman; like the work of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen you shall make it. 16 It shall be square and folded double, a span in length and a span in width. 17 You shall mount on it four rows of stones; the first row shall be a row of ruby, topaz and emerald; 18 and the second row a turquoise, a sapphire and a diamond; 19 and the third row a jacinth, an agate and an amethyst; 20 and the fourth row a beryl and an onyx and a jasper; they shall be set in gold filigree. 21 The stones shall be according to the names of the sons of Israel: twelve, according to their names; they shall be like the engravings of a seal, each according to his name for the twelve tribes." Again, we see Aaron, Israel's high priest, interceding for Israel, not any other nation.

“And thou hast made on the breastplate wreathed chains, work of thick bands, of pure gold; and thou hast made on the breastplate two rings of gold, and hast put the two rings on the two ends of the breastplate; and thou hast put the two thick bands of gold on the two rings at the ends of the breastplate; and the two ends of the two thick bands thou dost put on the two embroidered things, and thou hast put [them] on the shoulders of the ephod over-against its face. And thou hast made two rings of gold, and hast set them on the two ends of the breastplate, on its border, which [is] over-against the ephod within; and thou hast made two rings of gold, and hast put them on the two shoulders of the ephod, beneath, over-against its front, over-against its joining, above the girdle of the ephod, and they bind the breastplate by its rings unto the rings of the ephod with a ribbon of blue, to be above the girdle of the ephod, and the breastplate is not loosed from the ephod. And Aaron hath borne the names of the sons of Israel in the breastplate of judgment, on his heart, in his going in unto the sanctuary, for a memorial before Jehovah continually. And thou hast put unto the breastplate of judgment the Lights and the Perfections, and they have been on the heart of Aaron, in his going in before Jehovah, and Aaron hath borne the judgment of the sons of Israel on his heart before Jehovah continually.”(vss 22-30 YLT)

Christ bore our judgment for us. He was the only One who could do this for us. If we bore it, we’d die eternally lost, cast headlong into the lake of fire. It took Christ to do that which we couldn’t…atone for our sins. I can read…”for even the Christ did not please himself, but, according as it hath been written, The reproaches of those reproaching Thee fell upon me;”(Romans 15:3 YLT) Then the Psalmist wrote…”Many bulls have surrounded me, Mighty ones of Bashan have compassed me, They have opened against me their mouth, A lion tearing and roaring. As waters I have been poured out, And separated themselves have all my bones, My heart hath been like wax, It is melted in the midst of my bowels. Dried up as an earthen vessel is my power, And my tongue is cleaving to my jaws. And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.”(Psalm 22:12-16 YLT) Then the Hebrews’ writer wrote…. “For such a chief priest did become us — kind, harmless, undefiled, separate from the sinners, and become higher than the heavens, who hath no necessity daily, as the chief priests, first for his own sins to offer up sacrifice, then for those of the people; for this he did once, having offered up himself; for the law doth appoint men chief priests, having infirmity, but the word of the oath that [is] after the law [appointeth] the Son — to the age having been perfected.”(Hebrews 7:26-28 YLT) Aaron and any other high priest, when they were performing the mediatorial works, had to also offer up a sacrifice for themselves. Christ, being sinless, offered Himself to be sacrificed, and in His sacrifice, He also bore our judgment for us. He who knew no sin became sin for us.(2 Cor. 5:21)

I will close with this passage in Hebrews 8…”And the sum concerning the things spoken of [is]: we have such a chief priest, who did sit down at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens, of the holy places a servant, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord did set up, and not man, for every chief priest to offer both gifts and sacrifices is appointed, whence [it is] necessary for this one to have also something that he may offer; for if, indeed, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest — (there being the priests who are offering according to the law, the gifts, who unto an example and shadow do serve of the heavenly things, as Moses hath been divinely warned, being about to construct the tabernacle, for `See (saith He) thou mayest make all things according to the pattern that was shewn to thee in the mount;’) and now he hath obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned.”(vss 1-6 YLT)

The Hebrews’ writer was stating that the pattern which was given to Aaron by God through Moses was the very same pattern that Christ used, and still is using. He is now our High Priest, our Advocate(1 John 2:1), our Mediator(1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 8:6, 9:15, & 12:24), our saviour, and our King.


Some of this I copied and pasted from an old blog I used to have. Jesus is the Mediator, the High Priest for us, the sheep, and not all men. So God does not delight in the death of the wicked, yet He has not willed their salvation, either. He, in His just, left them dead in their sins.

Yep.....and day unto day and night u to night utters speech and witness in every language

The invisible testifies

and all the nations named in the 1st post God exercised mercy on them when Joshua decimated them....like Jericho......

What happened to all the babies and children?

God would have SOME MEN be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.....that is exactly how Calvinists read that verse by default.

My bible does not say that.....it says ALL MEN

anf it also states that Christ is the SAVIOR of all men, especially those that believe

It also says many are called but few chosen

It also say WHOSEVER WILL

Sorry......not buying it.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Nope, you don't engage them, that's the issue. Nor do you use real Scripture or context. The entirety of your beliefs appear to be in melded together paraphrases of out of context something. It appears an angry rant, not debate. Frankly it reminds me of Steven Anderson.

Can you offer a contextually exegeted argument of a Scripture at least once? Without melding several contexts together and going callowly into something like a "HA! GOTCHA!!!! YOU CAN'T ANSWER I WIN!!!" diatribe?

The reason you don't stay on track is obvious. You cannot stand context because you cannot prove your beliefs in context.

That's hilarious coming from a man that peddles another man's dogma.....the guy I follow, his name is Christ not Calvin!

 

[dcontroversal]

It's sad really that so many cannot understand one simple word. The word is "all." Contextually it means different things because context restricts both its extent and intent.

It doesn't mean each and every person who ever lived.

Once a person can graduate from K to at least 1st grade in their understanding of this then we can get somewhere. I mean we learned context back in school, right? But obviously we are not dealing with persons who want to further their understanding in an honest fashion of properly understood and interpreted Scripture.

Until then it will continue to be baseless out of context emotional ranting on their part.

Nothing but mouthy accusations......baseless accusations at that!

 

[dcontroversal]

But that does not go along with what Paul also wrote in Romans 5:12-19 my friend, especially verse 12. Then he also wrote in Romans 3:23 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...which includes babies. Yes, babies. Adam was the federal head of his posterity and when he fell, everyone of us fell, including babies. His guilt was transferred to all mankind. That is why babies die in infancy, and even the womb. His sin was imputed to us. He even wrote to the church at Corinth "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive"(1 Cor. 15:22). Romans 5:12-19, 1 Corinthians 15:22, and 2 Corinthians 5:21 all speak to Jesus being the Federal Head of His people, the elect of God. Everything He did, He did for them. He lived the sinless life and kept the Law perfectly(which was imputed to us when we were saved), took the sins of the elect upon Himself and bore them upon a cross to atone(which is limited to His elect, the believers), and rose again the third day for their justification. Romans 4:25 says He rose for our justification. If His death, burial and resurrection was for all mankind, then all mankind will be saved, because His resurrection secured their justification. Thank you for your civility my friend.

So you believe babies are in hell?

 

[preacher4truth]

That's hilarious coming from a man that peddles another man's dogma.....the guy I follow, his name is Christ not Calvin!

You're still being callow and dishonest?

 

[dcontroversal]

Ya think? "End to end" of what? It is the measurement of a man's hand from finger tip to thumb. No wonder you stumble with context and read things into statements that aren't there. The above is proof.

Rather tragic how you think you are the only one that uses or understands context and or the word ALL

 

[dcontroversal]

You're still being callow and dishonest?

No not really.........the truth.....why do you think what you believe is called Calvinism?

 

[preacher4truth]

Nothing but mouthy accusations......baseless accusations at that!

So you understand "all?" When did this glorious event transpire for you? And you now understand the differing contexts? Nothing I said was mouthy or false, looks like that's your job. Care to address what I actually said, or are you still stuck on Juvenile Blvd with your callow behavior?

 

[preacher4truth]

Rather tragic how you think you are the only one that uses or understands context and or the word ALL

Show me where I stated I'm the only one who understands it? Or are you going to finally man up and speak truth?

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't understand what you mean by "IF" Paul was alive before Law. He flat out tells us he WAS alive. Why can't Christ's Blood be sufficient for Children that don't understand the Law? Why can't they also be the Elect?

It does not fit their calvinistic model......nor does WHOSOEVER WILL....nor does Many are called but few chosen......nor does fill in the blank.......

 

[PennEd]

Well, any doctrine needs to hold up to the scrutiny of the Bible, mine included. I just see a huge gaping hole in his argument that God commanded Saul and Joshua to destroy their enemies based solely on them being Nephilim and not just enemies of God, judged and condemned to die as fallen sinners.

No Nephilim survived the flood. To say Noah’s lineage had some Nephilim in their lineage is conjecture at best, heresy at worst(not saying PennEd said this, just making a blanket statement). So, seeing no Nephilim survived the flood, it’s safe to say the Nephilim in Numbers 13:33 are not from fallen angels.

Sorry gentlemen. Had work. Only have a few minutes now.
Genesis 6:4 There were [b]giants on the earth in those days, AND ALSO AFTERWARD, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

There are those that believe there were a second incursion of fallen angels. I don't think so.

So the Nephillim show up after the flood. I think it's fair speculation to say that one of Noah's son's wives at least were corrupted.

Absurd to think God had Israel wipe out every man, woman, child and baby and animal because of sins that we ALL commit, INCLUDING the Israelites themselves.