Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Are there babies/children in hell?


Not if you believe in the Age of Accountability, there wouldn't be.

I believe that in this verse, IT is also talking about knowledge of Right from Wrong.

Romans 5:13 (HCSB)
13 In fact, sin was in the world before the law, but sin is not charged to a person’s account when there is no law.

However, I ONLY BELIEVE there is only ONE SIN THAT SENTENCES everybody that is going to the Lake of Fire.

That is Blaspheming the Work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit works on everyone's Heart trying to get them to genuinely BELIEVE in HIM, even if all you know HIM BY is the Great Spirit that Creates. When they REFUSE to BELIEVE in MESSIAH the CREATOR, they are in REALITY BLASPHEMING THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Every other Sin was PAID FOR ON THE CROSS, thus if they had RECEIVED the Creator as LORD, totally trusting in HIM, THEY TOO WOULD BE SAVED.

1 John 2:2 (NIV)
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


But MOST will Reject Christ the Creator. If they do not want HIM to be part of their lives, they will get their wish for Eternity, but they will not like it.

This is the Only Unforgivable SIN.

Matthew 12:31-32 (CSBBible)
31 Therefore, I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.


Here is an example:

Romans 1:20-22 (NASB)
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Opinion alert...nothing but opinion....
My friend, I posted two passage that David wrote under the Spirit's inspiration, so we can take it to the bank these passages are true. He sees all mankind born at enmity(ill-will) towards God. That is why David would not say what he said in 2 Samuel 12 as his child going to heaven. He was grieving his child. We lost our pet last year and unto this day, I feel like I could go and dig up her grave and crawl in and die with her, seeing I love and miss her so much! She lit up my life so much!! I miss her and still have a good cry every so often over her being gone from my life. I see David's statement in that same light. He wanted to die and be with his child.

Now, we know that the wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23). We also know that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God(Romans 3:23). Are babies included in both of these? Yes. If babies are born sinless, then how can they die, seeing that the wages of sin is death? The only reason why Jesus died was because He was imputed our sin and became sin for us, yet He never sinned even once(2 Cor. 5:21).

Things like these are why I say the bible does not explicitly say one way or the other about the eternal state of babies dying in infancy and/or in the womb. I will leave you with this from Genesis 18:25 "Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?” Yes He will.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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My friend, I posted two passage that David wrote under the Spirit's inspiration, so we can take it to the bank these passages are true. He sees all mankind born at enmity(ill-will) towards God. That is why David would not say what he said in 2 Samuel 12 as his child going to heaven. He was grieving his child. We lost our pet last year and unto this day, I feel like I could go and dig up her grave and crawl in and die with her, seeing I love and miss her so much! She lit up my life so much!! I miss her and still have a good cry every so often over her being gone from my life. I see David's statement in that same light. He wanted to die and be with his child.

Now, we know that the wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23). We also know that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God(Romans 3:23). Are babies included in both of these? Yes. If babies are born sinless, then how can they die, seeing that the wages of sin is death? The only reason why Jesus died was because He was imputed our sin and became sin for us, yet He never sinned even once(2 Cor. 5:21).

Things like these are why I say the bible does not explicitly say one way or the other about the eternal state of babies dying in infancy and/or in the womb. I will leave you with this from Genesis 18:25 "Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?” Yes He will.
So is the verse I quoted.......and jive God choosing some for hell and him saying twice he would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth!!!
 
Oct 25, 2018
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So is the verse I quoted.......and jive God choosing some for hell and him saying twice he would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth!!!
My friend, God never chose any man for hell. What election addresses is Him saving a bunch of God-hating people, Him giving them His grace, while leaving the rest in their fallen state, Him executing justice on them. If God had not sent His Son, all of us would be justly condemned to reside in hell for all eternity. Jesus said in John 10:11,15 He was giving His life for the sheep. In John 17:9ff He said He was not praying for the world, but for those who the Father had given Him out of the world. Then He said He was not praying only for those, but for all who would believe their words. And we know that even the ability to believe is a work of God(John 6:29). Then Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 5:25 that Jesus died for the church.

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.(1 Timothy 4:10) It says Savior of all men. It did not say He would be the Savior of all men who did 'x, y, z', but all men. So, if all men are not saved, and we both know that is not going to be the case, He is not (literally) the Savior of all men. Just like when the angel told Mary in Matthew 1:21 "and He shall save His people from their sins." However, not everyone without exception are His people. All are His creation, but only those Jesus died for make up the people of God.

3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.(1 Timothy 2) The OT high priest typified Jesus. Jesus was not only a Prophet, not only a King, but also a (High) Priest. The OT high priest did not intercede for all men, my friend. He interceded for the people of God, the OT Jews. He did not intercede for the sins of the Assyrians, Syrians, Philistines, Egyptians, Jebusites, Hittites, Hivites, or any other nation. In Leviticus, when Aaron laid his hands upon the scapegoat, it was all the sins and iniquities of Israel that were transferred unto this scapegoat and led away into the wilderness. Aaron did not transfer the sins of those other nations upon that scapegoat, God justly left them condemned in their sins.

Continued...
 
Oct 25, 2018
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So is the verse I quoted.......and jive God choosing some for hell and him saying twice he would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth!!!
In Exodus 28, we see the garment that Aaron was to wear as he interceded for the people of God, the OT Jews. In verses 4-12...

4 "These are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece and an ephod and a robe and a tunic of checkered work, a turban and a sash, and they shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother and his sons, that he may minister as priest to Me. 5 They shall take the gold and the blue and the purple and the scarlet material and the fine linen.
6 “They shall also make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen, the work of the skillful workman. 7 It shall have two shoulder pieces joined to its two ends, that it may be joined. 8 The skillfully woven band, which is on it, shall be like its workmanship, of the same material: of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen. 9 You shall take two onyx stones and engrave on them the names of the sons of Israel, 10 six of their names on the one stone and the names of the remaining six on the other stone, according to their birth. 11 As a jeweler engraves a signet, you shall engrave the two stones according to the names of the sons of Israel; you shall set them in filigree settings of gold. 12 You shall put the two stones on the shoulder pieces of the ephod, as stones of memorial for the sons of Israel, and Aaron shall bear their names before the LORD on his two shoulders for a memorial." Aaron was to bear their names upon his shoulders, just as Jesus bore our sins upon Himself when He died and rose again for us, His sheep.

Then in verses 15-21...

“You shall make a breastpiece of judgment, the work of a skillful workman; like the work of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen you shall make it. 16 It shall be square and folded double, a span in length and a span in width. 17 You shall mount on it four rows of stones; the first row shall be a row of ruby, topaz and emerald; 18 and the second row a turquoise, a sapphire and a diamond; 19 and the third row a jacinth, an agate and an amethyst; 20 and the fourth row a beryl and an onyx and a jasper; they shall be set in gold filigree. 21 The stones shall be according to the names of the sons of Israel: twelve, according to their names; they shall be like the engravings of a seal, each according to his name for the twelve tribes." Again, we see Aaron, Israel's high priest, interceding for Israel, not any other nation.

“And thou hast made on the breastplate wreathed chains, work of thick bands, of pure gold; and thou hast made on the breastplate two rings of gold, and hast put the two rings on the two ends of the breastplate; and thou hast put the two thick bands of gold on the two rings at the ends of the breastplate; and the two ends of the two thick bands thou dost put on the two embroidered things, and thou hast put [them] on the shoulders of the ephod over-against its face. And thou hast made two rings of gold, and hast set them on the two ends of the breastplate, on its border, which [is] over-against the ephod within; and thou hast made two rings of gold, and hast put them on the two shoulders of the ephod, beneath, over-against its front, over-against its joining, above the girdle of the ephod, and they bind the breastplate by its rings unto the rings of the ephod with a ribbon of blue, to be above the girdle of the ephod, and the breastplate is not loosed from the ephod. And Aaron hath borne the names of the sons of Israel in the breastplate of judgment, on his heart, in his going in unto the sanctuary, for a memorial before Jehovah continually. And thou hast put unto the breastplate of judgment the Lights and the Perfections, and they have been on the heart of Aaron, in his going in before Jehovah, and Aaron hath borne the judgment of the sons of Israel on his heart before Jehovah continually.”(vss 22-30 YLT)

Christ bore our judgment for us. He was the only One who could do this for us. If we bore it, we’d die eternally lost, cast headlong into the lake of fire. It took Christ to do that which we couldn’t…atone for our sins. I can read…”for even the Christ did not please himself, but, according as it hath been written, The reproaches of those reproaching Thee fell upon me;”(Romans 15:3 YLT) Then the Psalmist wrote…”Many bulls have surrounded me, Mighty ones of Bashan have compassed me, They have opened against me their mouth, A lion tearing and roaring. As waters I have been poured out, And separated themselves have all my bones, My heart hath been like wax, It is melted in the midst of my bowels. Dried up as an earthen vessel is my power, And my tongue is cleaving to my jaws. And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.”(Psalm 22:12-16 YLT) Then the Hebrews’ writer wrote….For such a chief priest did become us — kind, harmless, undefiled, separate from the sinners, and become higher than the heavens, who hath no necessity daily, as the chief priests, first for his own sins to offer up sacrifice, then for those of the people; for this he did once, having offered up himself; for the law doth appoint men chief priests, having infirmity, but the word of the oath that [is] after the law [appointeth] the Son — to the age having been perfected.”(Hebrews 7:26-28 YLT) Aaron and any other high priest, when they were performing the mediatorial works, had to also offer up a sacrifice for themselves. Christ, being sinless, offered Himself to be sacrificed, and in His sacrifice, He also bore our judgment for us. He who knew no sin became sin for us.(2 Cor. 5:21)

I will close with this passage in Hebrews 8…”And the sum concerning the things spoken of [is]: we have such a chief priest, who did sit down at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens, of the holy places a servant, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord did set up, and not man, for every chief priest to offer both gifts and sacrifices is appointed, whence [it is] necessary for this one to have also something that he may offer; for if, indeed, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest — (there being the priests who are offering according to the law, the gifts, who unto an example and shadow do serve of the heavenly things, as Moses hath been divinely warned, being about to construct the tabernacle, for `See (saith He) thou mayest make all things according to the pattern that was shewn to thee in the mount;’) and now he hath obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned.”(vss 1-6 YLT)

The Hebrews’ writer was stating that the pattern which was given to Aaron by God through Moses was the very same pattern that Christ used, and still is using. He is now our High Priest, our Advocate(1 John 2:1), our Mediator(1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 8:6, 9:15, & 12:24), our saviour, and our King.


Some of this I copied and pasted from an old blog I used to have. Jesus is the Mediator, the High Priest for us, the sheep, and not all men. So God does not delight in the death of the wicked, yet He has not willed their salvation, either. He, in His just, left them dead in their sins.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Here is that blogpost en toto...

Aaron in the meditorial stead of Christ. Exodus 28

Pretty much everyone in christendom knows that Aaron, the brother of Moses, was the first high priest. God placed him in that place to be the one who would make sacrifices for the people of Israel. In Exodus 28 you can read all the instructions God gave Moses on Mt. Sinai of how Aaron was to be attired when he entered the “the holiest of holies”. I want to address some of the attire he was to wear as he entered the sanctuary.

Here in Exodus 28 I want to address….

“And these [are] the garments which they make: a breastplate, and an ephod, and an upper robe, and an embroidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle; yea, they have made holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and for his sons, for his being priest to Me. And they take the gold, and the blue, and the purple, and the scarlet, and the linen, and have made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen, work of a designer; it hath two shoulders joining at its two ends, and it is joined. And the girdle of his ephod which [is] on him, according to its work, is of the same, of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen. And thou hast taken the two shoham stones, and hast opened on them the names of the sons of Israel; six of their names on the one stone, and the names of the remaining six on the second stone, according to their births; the work of an engraver in stone, openings of a signet, thou dost open the two stones by the names of the sons of Israel; turned round, embroidered [with] gold, thou dost make them. And thou hast set the two stones on the shoulders of the ephod — stones of memorial to the sons of Israel — and Aaron hath borne their names before Jehovah, on his two shoulders, for a memorial.”(Exo. 28:4-12 YLT)

In this passage, the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written into the shoham stones. Six names were written in one stone, and six on the other stone. These stones were placed on Aaron’s shoulders to bear before God. Doesn’t this sound familiar to what Jesus did for us? Sure it does. Some may disagree with me here and that’s fine. I believe in what is called “Covenant Theology” and that God made a covenant with His sheep. The Jews were chosen as a people who would bring the Messiah to all His people, to give them eternal life. Once the Messiah came, He then extended the same blessings to the Gentiles as He had already given to the Jews(Gal. 3:14). So I am not into “Replacement Theology” because the NT church did not replace Israel, but was an extension of the Covenant of Grace that would be extended to both Jews and Gentiles through Christ.

In John 6 Jesus stated thusly; “all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me; and him who is coming unto me, I may in no wise cast without, because I have come down out of the heaven, not that I may do my will, but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that all that He hath given to me I may not lose of it, but may raise it up in the last day; and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.”(vss 37-40 YLT)
Pay very close attention to what He stated. Jesus stated “all that the Father doth give to me”, so when were they, and consequently us, given to Jesus by the Father? In Romans 8, we can easily find that answer. It states in vss 28-30….“And we have known that to those loving God all things do work together for good, to those who are called according to purpose; because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren; and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.”
And also in Ephesians 1…”Blessed [is] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love, having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved.”(vss 3-6 YLT)
The choosing of His sheep, and giving them to the Shepherd was before the foundation of the world. That in this election, He would be their Surety, suffering in their stead. He bore their/our names on His shoulders before the Father when He hung, bled and died on the cross at Calvary.


continued...
 
Oct 25, 2018
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part two...


Now further in Exodus 28 we can read…”And thou hast made a breastplate of judgment, work of a designer; according to the work of the ephod thou dost make it; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen thou dost make it; it is square, doubled, a span its length, and a span its breadth. And thou hast set in it settings of stone, four rows of stone; a row of sardius, topaz, and carbuncle [is] the first row; and the second row [is] emerald, sapphire, and diamond; and the third row [is] opal, agate, and amethyst; and the fourth row [is] beryl, and onyx, and jasper; embroidered with gold are they in their settings, and the stones are according to the names of the sons of Israel, twelve, according to their names, openings of a signet, each by his name are they for the twelve tribes.”(vss 15-21 YLT)

You can see that God told Moses to have the breastplate of judgment with stones in it. Not just any stones, but precious jewels. I am reminded of these two verses…”Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.(Malachi 3:16,17 KJV) I used the KJV here because it gives a better illustration of what I am conveying here. All of Aaron’s works, from the adorning of his apparell, to his priestly work, all were in the stead of Christ. He was the mediator betwixt man and God, as was the other high priests, until Christ came.


“And thou hast made on the breastplate wreathed chains, work of thick bands, of pure gold; and thou hast made on the breastplate two rings of gold, and hast put the two rings on the two ends of the breastplate; and thou hast put the two thick bands of gold on the two rings at the ends of the breastplate; and the two ends of the two thick bands thou dost put on the two embroidered things, and thou hast put [them] on the shoulders of the ephod over-against its face. And thou hast made two rings of gold, and hast set them on the two ends of the breastplate, on its border, which [is] over-against the ephod within; and thou hast made two rings of gold, and hast put them on the two shoulders of the ephod, beneath, over-against its front, over-against its joining, above the girdle of the ephod, and they bind the breastplate by its rings unto the rings of the ephod with a ribbon of blue, to be above the girdle of the ephod, and the breastplate is not loosed from the ephod. And Aaron hath borne the names of the sons of Israel in the breastplate of judgment, on his heart, in his going in unto the sanctuary, for a memorial before Jehovah continually. And thou hast put unto the breastplate of judgment the Lights and the Perfections, and they have been on the heart of Aaron, in his going in before Jehovah, and Aaron hath borne the judgment of the sons of Israel on his heart before Jehovah continually.”(vss 22-30 YLT)

Christ bore our judgment for us. He was the only One who could do this for us. If we bore it, we’d die eternally lost, cast headlong into the lake of fire. It took Christ to do that which we couldn’t…atone for our sins. I can read…”for even the Christ did not please himself, but, according as it hath been written, The reproaches of those reproaching Thee fell upon me;”(Romans 15:3 YLT) Then the Psalmist wrote…”Many bulls have surrounded me, Mighty ones of Bashan have compassed me, They have opened against me their mouth, A lion tearing and roaring. As waters I have been poured out, And separated themselves have all my bones, My heart hath been like wax, It is melted in the midst of my bowels. Dried up as an earthen vessel is my power, And my tongue is cleaving to my jaws. And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, Piercing my hands and my feet.”(Psalm 22:12-16 YLT) Then the Hebrews’ writer wrote….For such a chief priest did become us — kind, harmless, undefiled, separate from the sinners, and become higher than the heavens, who hath no necessity daily, as the chief priests, first for his own sins to offer up sacrifice, then for those of the people; for this he did once, having offered up himself; for the law doth appoint men chief priests, having infirmity, but the word of the oath that [is] after the law [appointeth] the Son — to the age having been perfected.”(Hebrews 7:26-28 YLT) Aaron and any other high priest, when they were performing the mediatorial works, had to also offer up a sacrifice for themselves. Christ, being sinless, offered Himself to be sacrificed, and in His sacrifice, He also bore our judgment for us. He who knew no sin became sin for us.(2 Cor. 5:21)

I will close with this passage in Hebrews 8…”And the sum concerning the things spoken of [is]: we have such a chief priest, who did sit down at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens, of the holy places a servant, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord did set up, and not man, for every chief priest to offer both gifts and sacrifices is appointed, whence [it is] necessary for this one to have also something that he may offer; for if, indeed, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest — (there being the priests who are offering according to the law, the gifts, who unto an example and shadow do serve of the heavenly things, as Moses hath been divinely warned, being about to construct the tabernacle, for `See (saith He) thou mayest make all things according to the pattern that was shewn to thee in the mount;’) and now he hath obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned.”(vss 1-6 YLT)

The Hebrews’ writer was stating that the pattern which was given to Aaron by God through Moses was the very same pattern that Christ used, and still is using. He is now our High Priest, our Advocate(1 John 2:1), our Mediator(1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 8:6, 9:15, & 12:24), our saviour, and our King.

I pray that this feeble attempt will uplift someone in their walk with God.
 
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My friend, when are you going to engage my posts? I see you posting paraphrases of verses, but not any exegesis of them.
You've shown the issue at hand in the above. He needs to take the time to do this in a manly fashion instead of the gobbled up paraphrase out of context posts. That he disagreed with you on this shows me he is not owning up to this or willing to do this with context.
 
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When you actually engage mine.....!
Nope, you don't engage them, that's the issue. Nor do you use real Scripture or context. The entirety of your beliefs appear to be in melded together paraphrases of out of context something. It appears an angry rant, not debate. Frankly it reminds me of Steven Anderson.

Can you offer a contextually exegeted argument of a Scripture at least once? Without melding several contexts together and going callowly into something like a "HA! GOTCHA!!!! YOU CAN'T ANSWER I WIN!!!" diatribe?

The reason you don't stay on track is obvious. You cannot stand context because you cannot prove your beliefs in context.
 
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So is the verse I quoted.......and jive God choosing some for hell and him saying twice he would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth!!!
You're taking Scripture out of context. Again.

And it's just more Romans 9:20ism on your part.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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It's sad really that so many cannot understand one simple word. The word is "all." Contextually it means different things because context restricts both its extent and intent.

It doesn't mean each and every person who ever lived.

Once a person can graduate from K to at least 1st grade in their understanding of this then we can get somewhere. I mean we learned context back in school, right? But obviously we are not dealing with persons who want to further their understanding in an honest fashion of properly understood and interpreted Scripture.

Until then it will continue to be baseless out of context emotional ranting on their part.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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If babies, upon death, are automatically ushered into heaven, then allowing them to grow to adulthood and died eternally lost would be the most cruel thing to do. You raised a child that would have a clear ticket to heaven, an eternity in the presence of a triune God, the singing of the angels, street(s) of gold, a gate made of pearl, walls made of jasper, and allowed them to die and go to an eternal hell.
This seems to me to be human logic. This is really the same kind of human reasoning that those that don't believe in predestination use when they say that God chooses some for hell.

I think Paul does in fact teach us that there is such a thing as age of accountability.
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

The only time he could have been alive without the Law was when he was too young to understand it. So his sin as a child was not imputed to him. I think we are on safe ground saying Jesus's Blood covers children.


Also Jesus says a good chunk of the residents of Heaven will be children.
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


But just to muddy the waters a little more, I don't think Jesus's Blood takes care of any Nephillim, adults OR children. Yep, I said the "N" word!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Question

The bible says we are predestined.

Who here does not believe the bible is correct? (I ask because I have now seen a few people say something about those who do not believe in predestination)


Also. I am not asking if people believe in calvinism, or THEIR view of predestination. But in predestination (the term used by the bible)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I also am currious how a not by works thread turned into a calvinism debate :unsure:
 
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This seems to me to be human logic. This is really the same kind of human reasoning that those that don't believe in predestination use when they say that God chooses some for hell.

I think Paul does in fact teach us that there is such a thing as age of accountability.
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

The only time he could have been alive without the Law was when he was too young to understand it. So his sin as a child was not imputed to him. I think we are on safe ground saying Jesus's Blood covers children.


Also Jesus says a good chunk of the residents of Heaven will be children.
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


But just to muddy the waters a little more, I don't think Jesus's Blood takes care of any Nephillim, adults OR children. Yep, I said the "N" word!
But that does not go along with what Paul also wrote in Romans 5:12-19 my friend, especially verse 12. Then he also wrote in Romans 3:23 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...which includes babies. Yes, babies. Adam was the federal head of his posterity and when he fell, everyone of us fell, including babies. His guilt was transferred to all mankind. That is why babies die in infancy, and even the womb. His sin was imputed to us. He even wrote to the church at Corinth "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive"(1 Cor. 15:22). Romans 5:12-19, 1 Corinthians 15:22, and 2 Corinthians 5:21 all speak to Jesus being the Federal Head of His people, the elect of God. Everything He did, He did for them. He lived the sinless life and kept the Law perfectly(which was imputed to us when we were saved), took the sins of the elect upon Himself and bore them upon a cross to atone(which is limited to His elect, the believers), and rose again the third day for their justification. Romans 4:25 says He rose for our justification. If His death, burial and resurrection was for all mankind, then all mankind will be saved, because His resurrection secured their justification. Thank you for your civility my friend.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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You've shown the issue at hand in the above. He needs to take the time to do this in a manly fashion instead of the gobbled up paraphrase out of context posts. That he disagreed with you on this shows me he is not owning up to this or willing to do this with context.
He gave me 13 BIG RED X's out of spite for me giving him 4 or 5...or thereabout. I could NOT care less about these X's as I am not here to win trophy points, but to stand for the truth and present the scriptures exegetically, contextually, and theologically. I can get an infinite # of X's, as long as I present the bible in the manner I stated, I will praise God for allowing me to do it this way for Him. I am not worried about a trophy, I want a crown.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He gave me 13 BIG RED X's out of spite for me giving him 4 or 5...or thereabout. I could NOT care less about these X's as I am not here to win trophy points, but to stand for the truth and present the scriptures exegetically, contextually, and theologically. I can get an infinite # of X's, as long as I present the bible in the manner I stated, I will praise God for allowing me to do it this way for Him. I am not worried about a trophy, I want a crown.
It should be about brothers and sisters discussing Gods word and in spite of disagreements acting like mature adults.

Sadly, Like most christian chatrooms instead what we find are people who think they have all truth attacking others and acting like children. We shoudl be ashamed of ourselves. Sadly, FOr many, Out prife is to deep