Modern State of Israel: Is it biblical?

[KJV1611]

WOW. Misrepresentation

Eternally-grateful DOES NOT believe that. Nor do most dispensationalists. Its only a couple like John Hagee that do.

Make no mistake about it: dispensational premills believe the jews are LOST until they come to Christ.

No jew will EVER be saved outside of Christ "just because they're a Jew".

Ok so "All Israel" shall be saved has nothing to do with flesh Jews? Based on what you said it seems like you agree with me... All Israel (flesh Jews) won't be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WOW. Misrepresentation

Eternally-grateful DOES NOT believe that.

lol, That's how they work! They can not properly reply or understand what others think, so they lie about them and say things which are not true. They have done that since they have been here. It is the norm.

Nor do most dispensationalists. Its only a couple like John Hagee that do.

Can you show this? I have never heard anyone who thinks all jews are saved.

Make no mistake about it: dispensational premills believe the jews are LOST until they come to Christ.

All people (jew or not) are lost until the moment they are redeemed and justified by the lamb

No jew will EVER be saved outside of Christ "just because they're a Jew".

Amen, But they will still lie about what we believe, because they have no answer for what we say

 

[Hevosmies]

Ok so "All Israel" shall be saved has nothing to do with flesh Jews? Based on what you said it seems like you agree with me... All Israel (flesh Jews) won't be saved.

Here is what I believe:

They are saved NOT because they are jews, but because they TURN to Christ.

Jews can turn to Christ too, you know.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Israel of old, are in their promised Land with God, and Jesus is ruling from New Jerusalem. The resurrection of the dead (Rr of the Dd) was never a promise to me and you it was a promise to them who had to wait in sheol for their Messiah. The scripture says when David died and his flesh was corrupt and he descended with his brethern into sheol. But Jesus ie the new David after He died God condemned sin in the flesh and He was raised incorruptible. The Rr of the Dd could not take place until the end of that generation because of the preaching of the Gospel to them, the Jews. I get it you were taught something that isn't true and now it's almost impossible to hear the truth. You are looking for something, a 21st century rapture, that's never gonna happen, and your teaching others to do the same. I wasn't taught these things i had to struggle through the same thoughts as you. I get it again, people are gonna fight to the very end defending what they believe, as they should.

There was a rapture of the remnant of those who were saved of old covenant Israel In abt 70ad, with the Rr of the Dd. The old way in Adam is no more upon this Earth. This new state of Israel is not the chosen people of God there is no more righteous line after Jesus, the righteous line continues in Christ Jesus! TKS 😋

When did God promise abraham he would give his descendants the new jerusalem? And why did God tell Joshua when they entered the land God promised land to kill all the inhabitants. Can someone in Sheol be killed?

 

[KJV1611]

Here is what I believe:

They are saved NOT because they are jews, but because they TURN to Christ.

Jews can turn to Christ too, you know.

Of course they can be saved and a remnant always have been and always will be but a remnant is not All Israel. And that's not what Paul's talking about anyway, besides that, common senses says that all physical Jews aren't going to be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lol... I have heard everything now..Maybe I should just stop peaking at what certain people say.. They limit God, and say it is impossible for him to do something.. Gotta love it

 

[KJV1611]

Lol... I have heard everything now..Maybe I should just stop peaking at what certain people say.. They limit God, and say it is impossible for him to do something.. Gotta love it

I think you are one of those people who doesn't understand that there are two Israel's in the bible - spiritual Israel and flesh Israel. Until you figure that out you're going to be way off the mark.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

People will insist all includes jew and gentile as one unit. All the elect.

But of one reads romans 11. The who chapter is speaking about the difference between Jew and Gentile.

Nothing in romans 11 hints that Paul is speaking of any gentile when he claims all isreal will be saved.

When Paul said....all Israel will be saved he was talking about those who were long dead in sheol........it had nothing to do with any Jews after 70ad

30ad to 70ad was the last generation of old covenant Israel and the 1st generation of New Covenant Israel 😁

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When Paul said....all Israel will be saved he was talking about those who were long dead in sheol........it had nothing to do with any Jews after 70ad

30ad to 70ad was the last generation of old covenant Israel and the 1st generation of New Covenant Israel 😁

Um No,

He was speaking of a future event, prophesied in the OT. Where the redeemer will come and save his people.

As for your last comment, DO WHAT??

 

[7seasrekeyed]

doesn't scripture state that Jesus will come back and split the Mt of Olives?

1Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into captivity, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.
6On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7It will be a day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.
8And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern seaa and the other half toward the western sea,b in summer and winter alike. 9On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth—the LORD alone, and His name alone.
10All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be turned into a plain, but Jerusalem will be raised up and will remain in her place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. 11People will live there, and never again will there be an utter destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell securely.

12And this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes all the peoples who have warred against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
13On that day a great panic from the LORD will come upon them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other. 14Judah will also fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance. 15And a similar plague will strike the horses and mules, camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
All Nations will Worship the King
16Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.c 17And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, the rain will not fall on them. 18And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
20On that day, HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling basins before the altar. 21Indeed, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts, and all who sacrifice will come and take some pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of Hosts.
Zecariah 14

I guess some of you think He is going to go to NYC

I prefer the old prophets rather than the 21st C prophets who constantly contradict what God already said

like it or not, Israel is not out of the picture

 

[eternally-gratefull]

doesn't scripture state that Jesus will come back and split the Mt of Olives?

1Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into captivity, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.
6On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7It will be a day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.
8And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern seaa and the other half toward the western sea,b in summer and winter alike. 9On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth—the LORD alone, and His name alone.
10All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be turned into a plain, but Jerusalem will be raised up and will remain in her place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. 11People will live there, and never again will there be an utter destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell securely.

12And this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes all the peoples who have warred against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
13On that day a great panic from the LORD will come upon them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other. 14Judah will also fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance. 15And a similar plague will strike the horses and mules, camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
All Nations will Worship the King
16Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.c 17And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, the rain will not fall on them. 18And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
20On that day, HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling basins before the altar. 21Indeed, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts, and all who sacrifice will come and take some pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of Hosts.
Zecariah 14

I guess some of you think He is going to go to NYC

I prefer the old prophets rather than the 21st C prophets who constantly contradict what God already said

like it or not, Israel is not out of the picture

Maybe this happened in 70 AD too??

 

[garee]

God did not give them this name, This name was given by the world to the people who followed Christ.

And I agree, Not all Israel is Gods enemy, But as a nation, they are. that was pauls point. (remember, even he said there was and will always be a "remnant" and states even in his day, the nation was only blinded in part (This proves paul is talking about a group of people (Israel - saved and unsaved/natural branches etc etc... as one group - and the gentile church (unnatural branches as the other) and that at some point in time, the one group (Israel) will all be saved, as the OT prophets fortold



I agree, But I do not think you understand what I was trying to say.

The word Christian is used as a demonym (people name in regard to places) Christian, meaning residents of the city of Ghrist, named after her founder as His bride, the church.

Acts 11:26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

I am no word expert but when looking at its use as 9 times in the new testament it does seem to say the finger of God named it. Because his bride is represented by a city of Christ it would seem to be a appropriate name to be called. Just wanted to air my opinion not a salvation issue. But could have a bearing on how we look to the flesh.

The KJV translates Strong's G5537 in the following manner: be warned of God (3x), call (2x), be admonished of God (1x), reveal (1x), speak (1x), be warned from God (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to transact business, esp. to manage public affairs
   1. to advise or consult with one about public affairs
   2. to make answer to those who ask for advice, present enquiries or requests, etc.
      1. of judges, magistrates, rulers, kings
2. to give a response to those consulting an oracle, to give a divine command or admonition, to teach from heaven
   1. to be divinely commanded, admonished, instructed
   2. to be the mouthpiece of divine revelations, to promulgate the commands of God
3. to assume or take to one's self a name from one's public business
   1. to receive a name or title, be called

None of them were named of the enemies. Something I heard years ago as if it was a derogatory name.

Strong's Number G5537 matches the Greek χρηματίζω (chrēmatizō),

Mat 2:12 And being warned of God G5537 in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Mat 2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God G5537 in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:

Luk 2:26 And it was revealed G5537 unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Act 10:22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God G5537 by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Act 11:26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called G5537 Christians first in Antioch.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called G5537 an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God G5537 when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, thatthou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God G5537 of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake G5537 on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

It would seem to be a fulfillment of a old testament prophecy (Isaiah 62) in respect to the new name He promissed to name His bride as a resident of that city, Zion, the new heavenly Jerusalem . Where we have our citizenship.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Maybe this happened in 70 AD too??

those preterists, eh? I suppose most of us could be called partial preterist because we do actually know what has already happened

the thing with the super duper preterists, is that they believe so very much of scripture is metaphorical, that they are keen to ruin the faith of those who believe otherwise

I know some preterists who state we are 'living in the kingdom'

oh geez. look around....are you safe in your own backyard? not much of a kingdom

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word Christian is used as a demonym (people name in regard to places) Christian, meaning residents of the city of Ghrist, named after her founder as His bride, the church.

Acts 11:26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

I am no word expert but when looking at its use as 9 times in the new testament it does seem to say the finger of God named it. Because his bride is represented by a city of Christ it would seem to be a appropriate name to be called. Just wanted to air my opinion not a salvation issue. But could have a bearing on how we look to the flesh.

The KJV translates Strong's G5537 in the following manner: be warned of God (3x), call (2x), be admonished of God (1x), reveal (1x), speak (1x), be warned from God (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to transact business, esp. to manage public affairs
   1. to advise or consult with one about public affairs
   2. to make answer to those who ask for advice, present enquiries or requests, etc.
      1. of judges, magistrates, rulers, kings
2. to give a response to those consulting an oracle, to give a divine command or admonition, to teach from heaven
   1. to be divinely commanded, admonished, instructed
   2. to be the mouthpiece of divine revelations, to promulgate the commands of God
3. to assume or take to one's self a name from one's public business
   1. to receive a name or title, be called

None of them were named of the enemies. Something I heard years ago as if it was a derogatory name.

Strong's Number G5537 matches the Greek χρηματίζω (chrēmatizō),

Mat 2:12 And being warned of God G5537 in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Mat 2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God G5537 in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:

Luk 2:26 And it was revealed G5537 unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Act 10:22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God G5537 by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Act 11:26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called G5537 Christians first in Antioch.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called G5537 an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God G5537 when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, thatthou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God G5537 of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake G5537 on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

It would seem to be a fulfillment of a old testament prophecy (Isaiah 62) in respect to the new name He promissed to name His bride as a resident of that city, Zion, the new heavenly Jerusalem . Where we have our citizenship.

Will have to agree to disagree

 

[eternally-gratefull]

those preterists, eh? I suppose most of us could be called partial preterist because we do actually know what has already happened

the thing with the super duper preterists, is that they believe so very much of scripture is metaphorical, that they are keen to ruin the faith of those who believe otherwise

I know some preterists who state we are 'living in the kingdom'

oh geez. look around....are you safe in your own backyard? not much of a kingdom

I still am confused as to how allegorical prophecies fulfill the purpose of prophecy? Woult it not confuse what God said, and leave us to question what he really meant wiht no real ability to prove otherwise?

 

[garee]

God did not give them this name, This name was given by the world to the people who followed Christ.

And I agree, Not all Israel is Gods enemy, But as a nation, they are. that was pauls point. (remember, even he said there was and will always be a "remnant" and states even in his day, the nation was only blinded in part (This proves paul is talking about a group of people (Israel - saved and unsaved/natural branches etc etc... as one group - and the gentile church (unnatural branches as the other) and that at some point in time, the one group (Israel) will all be saved, as the OT prophets fortold



I agree, But I do not think you understand what I was trying to say.

Sorry I must of missed something. Are you saying his flesh did profit and if yes for what?

 

[garee]

Will have to agree to disagree

Thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry I must of missed something. Are you saying his flesh did profit and if yes for what?

Not sure why you would think this, the flesh prophits nothing.

Romans 11 concerns Gods promise to Isreal as a nation. Not the eternal salvation of peoples souls.. It also shows that just as prophesied and mentioned in chapters 9 and 10 that salvation was given to the gentiles just as prophesied. But even that can be taken away, (not that no more gentiles could ever be saved)

The issue is the context of these chapters..

 

[KJV1611]

When Paul said....all Israel will be saved he was talking about those who were long dead in sheol........it had nothing to do with any Jews after 70ad

30ad to 70ad was the last generation of old covenant Israel and the 1st generation of New Covenant Israel 😁

That's an interesting point too, and Amen, he did save those in sheol. So the way I see it, ALL Israel - dead old testament saints and all who come to know Christ as savior. Good point, I like that!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I still am confused as to how allegorical prophecies fulfill the purpose of prophecy? Woult it not confuse what God said, and leave us to question what he really meant wiht no real ability to prove otherwise?

well how do you understand scripture? through the Holy Spirit or human reasoning that cannot comprehend the supernatural since they refuse to see it every day of their lives?

28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17