Modern State of Israel: Is it biblical?

[eternally-gratefull]

You are mixing the physical promise to Abraham of inheriting the promised land to his seed with the spiritual promise of the church. The church will not take over the promised land. When God sets it up, those people claiming to be Israel may or may not have a part in it. Most of the tribes of Israel are lost to history, but God knows where they are.

No I am not I am seperating them, I asked the question in response to people who say we replace the church and God is done with Isreal (the nation) ie, his physical promises are no longer in effect or were never given.

Please try to read what people say.

 

[Deade]

Yes I made a mistake, Grandson.
But you also just contradicted yourself in two posts.

Yes, When God puts it back together, it will be all 12 tribes, ISRAEL/JACOB as they are called by both names. NOT judah

We seem to be arguing the same points. Where have I contradicted myself? You in post #30 said the church should have the promised land then in the two following posts you say it is for physical Israel which is my point. So which are you proposing?

 

[KJV1611]

Romans 9. Paul defends pauls chosing of Isreal. His first argument, Not everyone is spiritual isreal (spiritual children of Abraham)

This defense paul made has absolutely nothign to do with Gods promise of land given to a nation comming from one seed of abraham (Abraham Isaac and Jacob) as he explains later in chapter 11. And let us not forget. No one who was given the land was promised heaven. Salvation has always been by grace through faith (abraham proved this when he believed and God said he was saved) so this argument is invalid in a few ways.

People who want to use this to prove ammil/preterism are taking this passage out of context.

The promises were made to Abraham and his seed Christ period. God offered Abraham's inheritance to the Jews if and only if they kept all of his laws and all his statues.

Until the Jews can do that, then then they're not inheriting anything. So the only way they're going inherit anything is to Christ as their savior.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We seem to be arguing the same points. Where have I contradicted myself? You in post #30 said the church should have the promised land then in the two following posts you say it is for physical Israel which is my point. So which are you proposing?

You said in post 17 they shoudl be called Judah not Israel.

Now you seem to be sayign the opposite.

Thas contradic ting yourself.

 

[Locutus]

"wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

This question is directed at bringing back the northern tribes that were scattered being restored to the kingdom of God which is what Christ said had come upon the Jews.

We see here that the scattered tribes were being restored to the kingdom:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Peter writes to the diaspora saying they were restored to the kingdom as a generation of Priests:

1 Pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Pet 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

In the above Peter is referring to the Hosea:

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

So we see in both Peter's and Jame's letter the children of Israel being gathered together with children of Judah.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Israel is the church

Jew and Gentile believers are one in Christ Jesus.

Genesis 17: 19-21 the covenant is with Isaac

Romans 2:29….but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY, and circumcision is that which is of the HEART, by the Spirit.

Circumcism of the FLESH was a sign of the OLD covenant with God’s chosen people, the Jews……in the New Covenant……circumcism is by the Spirit on God’s chosen…….THE CHURCH.
The circumcism is done by the Spirit on the HEART of men

Romans 9: 6 ….they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel
7 neither are they all children because they are Abrahams’s descendents, but THRU ISAAC your descendents will be named.
8 the CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE are regarded as descendents.

Romans 11: 7 that which Israel (the Jews of the nation Israel) is seeking for, (salvation – see context) it has not obtained, but those who were CHOSEN obtained it, and the rest were hardened.

Galatians 3:29 …..if you belong to Christ, then you are ABRAHAM’s offspring, HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE

SPIRITUAL JEWS = Israel (the one who is a Jew INWARDLY)

Galatians 4:28……you brethren, (you Gentiles) like Isaac, are CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE

Those who are of faith are sons of Abraham Gal 3:7

The TRUE CIRCUMCISM are we who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3

 

[JimmieD]

Here is where those who hold to replacement theology get their theology(other verse, too, but this is the man one)...43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.”(Matthew 21) They will say the kingdom was literally taken away from them and given to the church. Not so, in my opinion.

Taken away from who? The leadership in Jerusalem:

21:23 ".... the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him ...."

And given to who? Jesus' followers (specifically the disciples, 28:16-20). This has nothing to do with taking the Kingdom of God from "The Jews" and giving it to "The Gentiles" as if one needs to point out that Jesus' disciples were Jewish.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gods promise to Israel concernign the land was an eternal promise.

LATER God gave them demands (lev 26) and said if you do this, You will live in YOUR land in peace. If you disaobey, I will punish you, the more you disobay, the more (7 times more) I will punish, Until there is no hope. At which case I will destroy your land, Remove you from your land and your enemy will enjy your land.

But if you repent, I will remember my promise. And restor you.

He did not give demands that had to be kept for th eland to be theirs, he gave demands they must do to ENJOY what is theres.

The land STILL belongs to them. Not me, Not any gentile and not the church.

The church did not replace Israel in this covenant. Period!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Israel is the church

Jew and Gentile believers are one in Christ Jesus.

Genesis 17: 19-21 the covenant is with Isaac

Romans 2:29….but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY, and circumcision is that which is of the HEART, by the Spirit.

Circumcism of the FLESH was a sign of the OLD covenant with God’s chosen people, the Jews……in the New Covenant……circumcism is by the Spirit on God’s chosen…….THE CHURCH.
The circumcism is done by the Spirit on the HEART of men

Romans 9: 6 ….they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel
7 neither are they all children because they are Abrahams’s descendents, but THRU ISAAC your descendents will be named.
8 the CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE are regarded as descendents.

Romans 11: 7 that which Israel (the Jews of the nation Israel) is seeking for, (salvation – see context) it has not obtained, but those who were CHOSEN obtained it, and the rest were hardened.

Galatians 3:29 …..if you belong to Christ, then you are ABRAHAM’s offspring, HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE

SPIRITUAL JEWS = Israel (the one who is a Jew INWARDLY)

Galatians 4:28……you brethren, (you Gentiles) like Isaac, are CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE

Those who are of faith are sons of Abraham Gal 3:7

The TRUE CIRCUMCISM are we who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3

The church was never promised land.

The church was the church before isreal even existed. Noah and Adam and Eve and Abel and many people of God belonged to that entity..

 

[jb]

There's no prophecy in the bible about Israel becoming a nation again.

Dan 9v27 (with Matt 24v3,15), brings Israel back into Biblical prophecy during the last 7 years of this age during which God will again deal with His people according to the flesh.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The church was never promised land.

The church was the church before isreal even existed. Noah and Adam and Eve and Abel and many people of God belonged to that entity..

The NEW covenant is superior to the Old covenant.

 

[Deade]

You said in post 17 they shoudl be called Judah not Israel.

Now you seem to be sayign the opposite.

Thas contradic ting yourself.

No, no, I still say they should be Judah. I am just saying that this occurrence is not what God had prophesied of the restoration. That is yet to come.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The NEW covenant is superior to the Old covenant.

As for salvation, Yes. Amen

But we are not talking about salvation. Context is everything. Gods promise to ISRAEL as a nation never saved on person. Gods promise to ALL NATIONS through abraham (a seperate part of the promise) has saved everyone who will ever be saved.

Ps. The old covenant spoke of the mosaic covenant, Not the abrahamic covenant. So not sure why you would use that in your discussion

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, no, I still say they should be Judah. I am just saying that this occurrence is not what God had prophesied of the restoration. That is yet to come.

Well i still disagree..

Judah is the southern kingdom. The ones there now are all 12 tribes.

 

[KJV1611]

Dan 9v27 (with Matt 24v3,15), brings Israel back into Biblical prophecy during the last 7 years of this age during which God will again deal with His people according to the flesh.

Some people believe that but Israel isn't mentioned in that verse. I believe that verse is talking about Christ and him confirming the covenant God made with Abraham.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Dan 9v27 (with Matt 24v3,15), brings Israel back into Biblical prophecy during the last 7 years of this age during which God will again deal with His people according to the flesh.

KJV1611 is right on that point.

and Matthew 24 was fulfilled as were all prophecies to the Jews.
The bible never indicates that a great tribulation would last 7 years.
The great tribulation of the Jews lasted more like 7 months. You can read all about it in Josphus who was an eye witness.
Tertullian wrote a treatise to the Jews on why they HAD TO GO THROUGH that "great trib".

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Well i still disagree..

Judah is the southern kingdom. The ones there now are all 12 tribes.

How do they know what tribe they belong to? All records were destroyed in AD70

 

[GraceAndTruth]

As for salvation, Yes. Amen

But we are not talking about salvation. Context is everything. Gods promise to ISRAEL as a nation never saved on person. Gods promise to ALL NATIONS through abraham (a seperate part of the promise) has saved everyone who will ever be saved.

Ps. The old covenant spoke of the mosaic covenant, Not the abrahamic covenant. So not sure why you would use that in your discussion

Why do you see them as so very different?
And I used scripture which you would agree is reliable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How do they know what tribe they belong to? All records were destroyed in AD70

I think God knows..

Is that not all that matters? Why do I need to know?

And all records destroyed? I am sure the families where were discpersed kept records. Even if only oral records..

Either way, if God says they will be returned, I believe him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you see them as so very different?
And I used scripture which you would agree is reliable.

Why?

God promised all nations would have salvation (be blessed)

God promised 1 NATION land.

How can you say they are not different?

You used scripture where paul argued that being a blood relative of abraham did nto make a person automatically saved, Those verses have nothing to do with Gods promise to one nation concerning the land of canaan. So I take those verses in context. And interpret them for what they say.. as we all should.