Being on the housetop

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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#61
In Matthew 24:15 Jesus gives the instuctions to is disciples at that time. He also says'' those who are in Judea'' not those who are in
the US and Europe during the 21st Century' Also how many of us are within fleeing distance of a Mountain? There are not that many Mountains in the UK and the ones we have are mainly in Scotland and Wales which are hundreds of miles from London where I live.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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#62
Your argument is not with me pal.....and the phrase, "WHEN YOU SEE...." does not necessarily imply them laying actual eyes on something the very second it happens.....for example....Hurricane Katrina laid waste to the gulf coast, I was not there to see it, but I seen it in the aftermath when they plastered videos, pics etc. all over the news....use some common sense Louis!
Let me see if I have what you say correct: When the Lord says to those upon their housetops to notice what should not be standing in the Holy place, the Lord means after they come down from upon their housetop and walk into town and physically see something that shouldn't standing in the Holy place?
And they who are out in the field who see what should not be standing in the holy place, it means it's when they come into town and see what shouldn't be standing in the Holy place?
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#63
You do have some "weird" interpretations of scripture Louie - there was no rule made "that the apostles could no longer preach Christ" - the opposition by the unbelieving Jews was from the very beginning:

Acts 4:17 “But so that it will not spread any further among the people, let us warn them to speak no longer to any man in this name.”

1 Thess 2:16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.
You have to put one and one together there Locutus, and come up with some common sense reasoning.
If the traditionalist Jews had sworn an oath to murder Paul (1+), and then later were forbidding the Apostles from speaking to the Gentiles of Christ (1),.... then do you think that the traditionalist Jews in Jerusalem were letting the Apostles (if there were any, and hadn't already been murdered), to speak of Christ to the Jews in Jerusalem? That doesn't add up now does it?

1 Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#64
In Matthew 24:15 Jesus gives the instuctions to is disciples at that time. He also says'' those who are in Judea'' not those who are in
the US and Europe during the 21st Century' Also how many of us are within fleeing distance of a Mountain? There are not that many Mountains in the UK and the ones we have are mainly in Scotland and Wales which are hundreds of miles from London where I live.
You are correct tanakh, that the Lord in Matthew 24:16 does instruct those who are His in Judea to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy place (Matthew 24:15). We now have two choices.
Most references to mountains in the bible represent large nations, while most references to hills represent small nations.
When the Lord warns they who are His in Judea to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, the Lord means for them to flee into the worlds large nations for refuge.
If, on the other hand the reference to mountains is literal, then they who are the Lords in Judea when the abomination of desolation appears would have a forty two month period in which they would have to forage for food into the mountains.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#65
Back when this was written it was common to have a flat rooftop with walls- kinda like we have porches and balconies.
Hi OneFaith,
My opinion is that they on the housetop is a reference to head of household, and that He (like Lot in Sodom) should not concern himself with selling his property and other such concerns that take time to undertake.

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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77
#66
You are correct tanakh, that the Lord in Matthew 24:16 does instruct those who are His in Judea to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy place (Matthew 24:15). We now have two choices.
Most references to mountains in the bible represent large nations, while most references to hills represent small nations.
When the Lord warns they who are His in Judea to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, the Lord means for them to flee into the worlds large nations for refuge.
If, on the other hand the reference to mountains is literal, then they who are the Lords in Judea when the abomination of desolation appears would have a forty two month period in which they would have to forage for food into the mountains.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
I know that Mountains and hills can represent large and small nations but in this context I really think Jesus was talking about
actual Mountains. Fleeing to another Country in 2018 would be pointless if the Abomination was set up in Judea. In addition
Luke replaces phrase with Armies surrounding Jerusalem. Anything that violated the Temple or City was an abomination of desolation.
Secondly many of the Jews that Jesus spoke to took all Scripture literally. Even his Disciples had to have his Parables explained to them and the Jewish leadership were slow on the uptake. The conversation with Nicodemus is a classic example. Scripture is written
on two main levels one literal or natural and another spiritual or symbolic. To understand which is which one has to take the passage in context and compare it with other parts of the Bible line on line , precept on precept. The Holy Spirit guides us in discernment.
Today many still fall into the literalness trap and misunderstand scripture
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#67
How often is someone on an actual rooftop?
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The man of sin, beast, will step in to the Jews temple, and claim to be their God and Messiah, who is of the occult, nature worship, and evolution, which he believes people can still evolve to be greater and spiritual, and does not acknowledge a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as his higher power, and will persecute all people that keep the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

In which there will be persecution towards those in the truth of God more than any other time in history, which Jesus shortened the days to three and one half years, for if not no flesh shall be saved, for by peace the man of sin shall destroy many, take out a third of the world's population with nuclear weapons, for arms shall stand on his part, which is concentrated in the Arab nations as they rebel against the operation of the world at that time, and destroy the mighty and holy people.

Jesus is illustrating the point that no matter where the Jews are at who are in the truth, on the rooftop, in the field, in the basement, at work, no matter where they are to run like the dickens, and get out of dodge fast.

And pray that there is nothing to hinder you from getting away as fast as possible, pray that it is not the sabbath day which might seem like someone would want to stop them for traveling too far, and pray that you do not have to drag children around with you slowing you down, and pray it is not winter where it can slow you down with the winter conditions, and more easier to spot in the wintertime when outdoors.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The nation of Israel has 70 week3 determined upon them to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus.

Which we see that they have not done that yet so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled.

Israel is blinded in part, until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved.

Salvation is still available to the Gentiles so Israel is still blinded in part, so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled.

The last 7 years is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom, and the first three and one half years repentance, and salvation, are still available to the world, and when they take the mark of the beast then repentance, and salvation, are no longer available to the Gentiles, and then God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah for the last three and one half years.

The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East, which Trump is pushing it like no other president before him, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, which is what the Gentile nations want, and the man of sin wants them all in one spot, but God means it for good to turn them to the truth.

The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians, and the Jews will build their temple and go back to animal sacrifices for they are still blinded in part with no hassle from the Palestinians.

The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth, and the 7 years period will begin.

In the middle of the 7 years period the man of sin, beast, will step in to the Jews temple and claim to be their God and Messiah, and for the last three and one half years make war against the saints and prevail against them, and they shall be given in to his hands for the last three and one half years, and when he shall accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people all things are finished.

Which then comes the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to God the Father.

Which is both Jews and Gentile that acknowledge the truth, for the man of sin, New Age Christ, is persecuting them worldwide, which is why it is the greatest persecution in the history of mankind.

And Israel is protected from physical attack for the 7 years period, although the New Age Christ persecutes the saints, so the beast does not scatter the Jews abroad, for God has the plan to restore them to the truth.

Some people think it happened in the first century, but it did not for Israel is not in the truth today that Jesus is their Messiah, which means the 70th week could of not happened, and God said He will bring the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes, back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that day forward, and He will never hide His face from them again, which means if it was a past prophesy Israel as a nation would be in the truth today, but they are not.

Continued,
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#68
Continued,

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God's warns us of the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher in the evolutionary process and love, and an ascended master, and avatar, but the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolutionary process, and will cause all people who follow him to become an ascended master, and avatar, when the Christ conscience comes upon them.

This happens at the latter times, the last days of the last days before Jesus comes back, and does not apply to the first century, for that sure was not the latter times, and the new age movement is here today.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The time will come the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to the new age movement, and the new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and Satan can work in the world unlike in the past for God is allowing the world to rebel against Him so He can put them down, and Satan ascends from the bottomless pit, which means for the last three and one half years Satan is off his leash, and will deceive all deceive all people who do not love God, which he is on a leash right now and can only deceive so much.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The devils are cast to earth and deceive all people who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom, which is the strong delusion God shall give them.

Babylon has not fallen yet until Jesus puts her down, because her ways are still on earth, which represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man, which is what the beast kingdom is about.

The Bible says Babylon, lion, human religion, Medo-Persia, bear, physical cruelty, Greece, leopard, human wisdom, the Roman Empire, iron, ten horn kingdom, the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section, pushing for territory, dominion, does not fall until Jesus puts down the beast kingdom, for their ways are still on earth, and are all at the beast kingdom, the kingdom of man in it's entirety not acknowledging any god above them.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Because the devils are cast to earth and they deceive this is where the false Christs, and false prophets, and the great signs, and wonders, come from, that if it were possible would deceive those in the truth, but it is not possible for them to be deceived, but they will look real.

The abomination of desolation is a future event, and Jesus is saying when they see it happen, or know of it, to run like the dickens, and the man of sin, beast, is the New Age Christ, of the new age movement, that will deceive all people who do not love God.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#69
I know that Mountains and hills can represent large and small nations but in this context I really think Jesus was talking about
actual Mountains. Fleeing to another Country in 2018 would be pointless if the Abomination was set up in Judea. In addition
Luke replaces phrase with Armies surrounding Jerusalem. Anything that violated the Temple or City was an abomination of desolation.
Secondly many of the Jews that Jesus spoke to took all Scripture literally. Even his Disciples had to have his Parables explained to them and the Jewish leadership were slow on the uptake. The conversation with Nicodemus is a classic example. Scripture is written
on two main levels one literal or natural and another spiritual or symbolic. To understand which is which one has to take the passage in context and compare it with other parts of the Bible line on line , precept on precept. The Holy Spirit guides us in discernment.
Today many still fall into the literalness trap and misunderstand scripture
As the Jews who were in Jerusalem in 66-70 AD were they who had forbidden the apostles from preaching to the gentiles, and who had tried to kill Paul for preaching Christ; do you then honestly believe that the Lord was warning the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem to flee?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
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#70
Let me see if I have what you say correct: When the Lord says to those upon their housetops to notice what should not be standing in the Holy place, the Lord means after they come down from upon their housetop and walk into town and physically see something that shouldn't standing in the Holy place?
And they who are out in the field who see what should not be standing in the holy place, it means it's when they come into town and see what shouldn't be standing in the Holy place?
Not what I said at all or even indicated.....and too be honest, I rarely engage you because of your flippant, mouthy remarks....My OP in this thread is based upon a study of Hebrew History and both of your replies to me have been par for the course!