The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation
- Thread starter mobius8curve
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He said he was not and there are others who do not also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism and there may be other groups not in the article...
Nope...your attitudes are quite terrible and signify serious issues. Being pre/mid/post before being shown what is really going on, is fine...everyone is on a learning curve. But, to be shown true words, not my words, but directly from the Scripture, no interpretation required...you deny it. The Pharisees did that...and were consequently cursed to eternal torment.
Not a good sign, not a good sign at all.
Not a good sign, not a good sign at all.
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I'm just an old man banging away on the keyboard. I don't actually fit into any of the camps anymore and lost the urge to debate one of them. I look at it as we are all Christian who confess Jesus Christ and so together we could understand a whole lot more but we argue instead. To avoid being disappointed in me though you shoud look real close into what I argue for or against. Thank you for your kind words.
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As to the "FIRST SEAL" / INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]":
The "FIRST SEAL" is [parallel to] all of the following:
--the FIRST ONE of "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]," the "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" Mt24:5/Mk13:5
--the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" 2Th2:8a of the man of sin (parallel to Dan9:27a[26]--"the prince THAT SHALL COME"... the "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"; this involves the description [of same] in Dan7:20-21 "whose look is more stout than his fellows")
--the rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "DECEPTION"), Rev6:2
--Jesus will be opening the "FIRST SEAL" when He "STANDS to JUDGE" (Rev4-5, Isa3:13, Lam2:3-4 [the wording of which sounds rather similar to that of 2Th2:7b-8a]); the 24 elders are sitting on "thrones" and have "gold stephanos/crowns" (note Paul's wording of "IN THAT DAY" 2Tim4:8)
--the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]," as noted above, involves both the ARRIVAL of the "time period" ['the DOTL' very long time period (earthly time period), on the whole] AND the ARRIVAL of the "whose coming" ['the man of sin be revealed' at the START of the 7-yrs, and involving ALL he will DO over the course of the "DARK"/"DARKNESS" portion of the DOTL time period (the 7 yrs; see also Dan7:7 and Gen46:2)--"the DOTL" is all earthly-located, whereas "the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ" involves when "the Church which is His body" is "caught up/away" into His Presence (to the meeting of the Lord "IN THE AIR" (i.e. NOT on the earth) and its "G4862 WITH - syn" word - denoting "'UNION' with, and/or 'IDENTIFICATION' with" Him)]
--2Th2 (chpts 1-2 actually) is basically Paul's corrective, informing them (who were being wrongly convinced that "the DOTL IS PRESENT," v.2) that "it will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [the subject of v.1] AND the man of sin be revealed [the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (see above)]" of many more "birth PANGS [plural]" that follow on from that FIRST one/FIRST SEAL]... [when the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are found in the same context, it is referring to the SAME earthly-located time period, and chpts 1 & 2 have these phrases, which should be understood in conjunction with each other--as the SAME future "time period" of the 7-yrs, STARTING with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"/opening of SEAL #1]
...consequently, I DO NOT believe "SEAL #1" has been opened yet (which is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 etc]" of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"). Not STARTED yet. *ONE THING* MUST take place *FIRST* before IT (that "time period) can be present to unfold upon the earth over the course of some time.
The "FIRST SEAL" is [parallel to] all of the following:
--the FIRST ONE of "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]," the "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" Mt24:5/Mk13:5
--the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" 2Th2:8a of the man of sin (parallel to Dan9:27a[26]--"the prince THAT SHALL COME"... the "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"; this involves the description [of same] in Dan7:20-21 "whose look is more stout than his fellows")
--the rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "DECEPTION"), Rev6:2
--Jesus will be opening the "FIRST SEAL" when He "STANDS to JUDGE" (Rev4-5, Isa3:13, Lam2:3-4 [the wording of which sounds rather similar to that of 2Th2:7b-8a]); the 24 elders are sitting on "thrones" and have "gold stephanos/crowns" (note Paul's wording of "IN THAT DAY" 2Tim4:8)
--the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]," as noted above, involves both the ARRIVAL of the "time period" ['the DOTL' very long time period (earthly time period), on the whole] AND the ARRIVAL of the "whose coming" ['the man of sin be revealed' at the START of the 7-yrs, and involving ALL he will DO over the course of the "DARK"/"DARKNESS" portion of the DOTL time period (the 7 yrs; see also Dan7:7 and Gen46:2)--"the DOTL" is all earthly-located, whereas "the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ" involves when "the Church which is His body" is "caught up/away" into His Presence (to the meeting of the Lord "IN THE AIR" (i.e. NOT on the earth) and its "G4862 WITH - syn" word - denoting "'UNION' with, and/or 'IDENTIFICATION' with" Him)]
--2Th2 (chpts 1-2 actually) is basically Paul's corrective, informing them (who were being wrongly convinced that "the DOTL IS PRESENT," v.2) that "it will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [the subject of v.1] AND the man of sin be revealed [the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (see above)]" of many more "birth PANGS [plural]" that follow on from that FIRST one/FIRST SEAL]... [when the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are found in the same context, it is referring to the SAME earthly-located time period, and chpts 1 & 2 have these phrases, which should be understood in conjunction with each other--as the SAME future "time period" of the 7-yrs, STARTING with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"/opening of SEAL #1]
...consequently, I DO NOT believe "SEAL #1" has been opened yet (which is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 etc]" of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"). Not STARTED yet. *ONE THING* MUST take place *FIRST* before IT (that "time period) can be present to unfold upon the earth over the course of some time.
I notice when I work in my garden that it all belongs to me. I can row up rows wheresoever I chose and plant anything I like. If I chose I can cut down the weeds or I can let them grow. If I see a tomato growing to close to the ground and bugs might get to it I can pull it and let it ripen in the window seal. A man is just like it I think planted in Gods garden and he pulls up the weeds as he chooses and plants what he wants to grow and pulls the tomatoes he sees to ripen in his window and leaves the other to ripen on the vine.
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The most eloquent 'no' goes to...
*sighs* It is a shame. There are abortion ships, law firms, media companies...organized, like ants. Christians? Haha...ahhhh....yea. We would like to think we are organized...but, Christians essentially are operating in the stone age while the adversary has gone intergalatic. Not a good look for us. Prophesied, yes, but, did we have to follow it so closely??
*sighs* It is a shame. There are abortion ships, law firms, media companies...organized, like ants. Christians? Haha...ahhhh....yea. We would like to think we are organized...but, Christians essentially are operating in the stone age while the adversary has gone intergalatic. Not a good look for us. Prophesied, yes, but, did we have to follow it so closely??
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lol, You do have the right idea though what you don't see is you want to go to the lumber yard and pick up t111 siding for the farm house as soon as i get back from pricing coffins and looking at plots. Not your fault at all though like I said you have the right idea in a neutral type dialogue.
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