Not By Works

[BillG]

No this post Bill .

The following was my response

As John states

John 3:16-21
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil.20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”

Which I figured answered

Some background .
Yes , The Father gave His Son , His Son gave His life for the sins of the world .
I understand Salvation is by Grace , through Faith .
I understand that nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them to Him .

Without going into detail about specifics on those understandings are you in a basic agreement?

Can we start our discussion at this beginning stage where the Father is calling or drawing people to Christ ?

 

[preacher4truth]

Bump.

Well, you think you are, but salvation is a gift, not a reward. But I agree, you think you were rewarded eternal life, showing your grave error.

See how simple it was to expose you? Like I said, you don't believe.

Note, he has nothing to say here about his grave error and misunderstanding.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why are all these people coming back under different user names ????

What is amazing, is they come back judging people as loving sin, yet by being in here, they are in sin.

A contradiction in itself.

 

[lukeabers]

As shown in your reply Young's holds true to the Genitive Case by his use of "of".

If we are dead nevertheless we live yet it is not us that liveth, but Christ liveth in us, how is it not the Faith of the Son of God in which live? For he that is Baptized has put on Christ. As the Body of Christ, His Church, the Temple of GOD; it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not us but Christ in us; the hope of glory. With man this is impossible. But with GOD all things are possible!

It simply does not. Your blindness is not cute.

Your speech is mostly fluff and repetitive. I love God but making verbose and pious statements do little if anything. I understand injecting a little bit of poetry, but that isn't what you are doing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ cannot have faith. He is God. Think again.

Amen

Faith is based in HOPE of things which are NOT SEEN

God sees all.. there is nothing he can not see. He operates on truth not on faith.

 

[lukeabers]

Amen

Faith is based in HOPE of things which are NOT SEEN

God sees all.. there is nothing he can not see. He operates on truth not on faith.

The truth is honey to my ears!

 

[lightbearer]

You would be correct if it were a translation. It is a paraphrase being spoken in the first person plural.

For we are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us.
(Gal 2:20)

The clause, " The Faith of the Son of God" in the Greek is in the Genitive and should be translated as seen here with an of.

In regards to the Genitive here is an excerpt from Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes "Genative (possession, "of"; also origin or separation, "from")"

YLT: "with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh -- in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me;"

As shown in your reply Young's holds true to the Genitive Case by his use of "of".

If we are dead nevertheless we live yet it is not us that liveth, but Christ liveth in us, how is it not the Faith of the Son of God in which live? For he that is Baptized has put on Christ. As the Body of Christ, His Church, the Temple of GOD; it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not us but Christ in us; the hope of glory. With man this is impossible. But with GOD all things are possible!

It simply does not. Your blindness is not cute.

Your speech is mostly fluff and repetitive. I love God but making verbose and pious statements do little if anything. I understand injecting a little bit of poetry, but that isn't what you are doing.

Prove the posts wrong piece by piece I will recant. Or is it you just wish to subjectively speak about how you FEEL about me and what you subjectively feel about what was posted in relation to the Holy Writ.

 

[lukeabers]

Prove the posts wrong piece by piece I will recant. Or is it you just wish to subjectively speak about how you FEEL about me and what you subjectively feel about what was posted in relation to the Holy Writ.

Alright, let's cut through this...fog.

Your handle is 'lightbearer'...or in latin, 'lucifer'. So, nice 'tell', guess you are practicing 'lesser magic' as they call it.

Now, let's get back to the gnat-straining...oh wait, no. What ever it is that you are up to, you will have your chance to get back to it soon enough. I'm getting what I came here for, and you should know, you cannot stop me.

Ta ta, actor.

 

[lightbearer]

Alright, let's cut through this...fog.

Your handle is 'lightbearer'...or in latin, 'lucifer'. So, nice 'tell', guess you are practicing 'lesser magic' as they call it.

Now, let's get back to the gnat-straining...oh wait, no. What ever it is that you are up to, you will have your chance to get back to it soon enough. I'm getting what I came here for, and you should know, you cannot stop me.

Ta ta, actor.

So you have nothing other than more accusations.
In relation to your continual comments about me.....Came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. I am not the Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. Which is the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Ye are the light of the world (through Christ). A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

(John 1:7-9; Rom 13:12; Eph 5:8; Jas 1:17; 1Thess 5:5 Mat 5:14-16 )

Hence the screename lightbearer. All Christians in Christ are to be bearers of HIS light; the LIGHT. Lightbearers....


Which is extremely different than the shining one; Lucifer the morning star. Who was attempting to shine on his own, above HE that is Creator and Sustainer of all.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

But by all means continue making subjective comments about me and the posts.

 

[lukeabers]

So you have nothing other than more accusations.
In relation to your continual comments about me.....Came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. I am not the Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. Which is the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Ye are the light of the world (through Christ). A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

(John 1:7-9; Rom 13:12; Eph 5:8; Jas 1:17; 1Thess 5:5 Mat 5:14-16 )

Hence the screename lightbearer. All Christians in Christ are to be bearers of HIS light; the LIGHT.


Which is extremely different than the shining one; Lucifer the morning star. Who was attempting to shine on his own, above HE that is Creator and Sustainer of all.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

But by all means continue making subjective comments about me and the posts.

Your handle name is lucifer. If you were a Christian, you would be appalled and change it immediately. Seeing as you are a 'senior member', I doubt I'm the first to bring it to your attention, actor.

 

[lightbearer]

Your handle name is lucifer. If you were a Christian, you would be appalled and change it immediately. Seeing as you are a 'senior member', I doubt I'm the first to bring it to your attention, actor.

Continual attacks. Nothing objective in relation to the facts posted in relation to the Holy Writ.

 

[lukeabers]

Continual attacks. Nothing objective in relation to the facts posted in relation to the Holy Writ.

You are very correct, lucifer, I will continue to attack you, even after I am dead. Love the poor attempt at hiding in the light. Kind of...adorable, you know, for what you are.

 

[lightbearer]

Your handle name is lucifer. If you were a Christian, you would be appalled and change it immediately. Seeing as you are a 'senior member', I doubt I'm the first to bring it to your attention, actor.

So you have nothing other than more accusations.
In relation to your continual comments about me.....Came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.I am not the Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. Which is the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Ye are the light of the world (through Christ). A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

(John 1:7-9; Rom 13:12; Eph 5:8; Jas 1:17; 1Thess 5:5 Mat 5:14-16 )

Hence the screename lightbearer. All Christians in Christ are to be bearers of HIS light; the LIGHT. Lightbearers....


Which is extremely different than the shining one; Lucifer the morning star. Who was attempting to shine on his own, above HE that is Creator and Sustainer of all.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

But by all means continue making subjective comments about me and the posts.

 

[lukeabers]

So you have nothing other than more accusations.
In relation to your continual comments about me.....Came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.I am not the Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. Which is the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Ye are the light of the world (through Christ). A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

(John 1:7-9; Rom 13:12; Eph 5:8; Jas 1:17; 1Thess 5:5 Mat 5:14-16 )

Hence the screename lightbearer. All Christians in Christ are to be bearers of HIS light; the LIGHT. Lightbearers....


Which is extremely different than the shining one; Lucifer the morning star. Who was attempting to shine on his own, above HE that is Creator and Sustainer of all.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

But by all means continue making subjective comments about me and the posts.

Obviously you are not the light, you are the bearer, lucifer.

I tire of your silly games. I hope, at least, for your sake, that you are copy-pasting your tldr's because no one in their right Christian mind is going to read them.

 

[lightbearer]

I tire of your silly games.

Obviously not and I am not playing. Lucifer was a light; the morning star. Not a bearer of the Light; a lightbearer. Someone bearing the Light. Christ Jesus our LORD

Lucifer is latin not Hebrew. Isaiah was written in Hebrew. Are you Catholic?

The Hebrew word is pronounced hêylêl and it means morning star; shining one. This Lucifer; Heylel tried to shine all on his own and above HE that is, was, and forever shall be.

H1966 הֵילֵל heylel (hay-lale') n-m.
1. the morning-star
[from H1984 (in the sense of brightness)]
KJV: lucifer.
Root(s): H1984

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Heylel), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 

[lukeabers]

Obviously not and I am not playing. Lucifer was a light; the morning star. Not a bearer of the Light; a lightbearer. Someone bearing the Light. Christ Jesus our LORD

Lucifer is latin not Hebrew. Isaiah was written in Hebrew. Are you Catholic?

The Hebrew word is pronounced hêylêl and it means morning star; shining one. This Lucifer; Heylel tried to shine all on his own and above HE that is, was, and forever shall be.

H1966 הֵילֵל heylel (hay-lale') n-m.
1. the morning-star
[from H1984 (in the sense of brightness)]
KJV: lucifer.
Root(s): H1984

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Heylel), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Wow, the nonsense continues. Bet you have been just having a grand ole time around here, huh?

lucifer Is not the morning star any longer and never will be again. It is a position of power, now being held by the LORD JESUS CHRIST, SAVIOR OF MANKIND, RULER OF ALL, CREATOR, ALPHA AND OMEGA, HE THAT SPEAKS THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, YWHW

You lose, actor, you lose.

 

[lightbearer]

Take care. Bye

 

[lukeabers]

Take care. Bye

Ta ta, actor.

 

[Studyman]

you are now saying that what i meant with my own comment is a matter of opinion?
that your twisted mischaracterizing about what i meant and what i was referring to by what i said is more accurate than my own knowledge of what i myself intended to communicate ?

lol that's rich.

instead of studying Matthew 17:24-27.

are you maybe waiting for saturday before you can concentrate on the word of God?

You are truly the master of deflection and misdirection.

"studydude does not exactly have a reputation for honest or accurate representation of facts. in fact he has a reputation for deliberate misrepresentation of the truth."

This is your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

But I am addressing your own words here which I believe are not true according to the Bible.

"you've got a problem, because scripture does not support the way you want to think, but you really want scripture to support it. the solution is The Cross. you need to understand that the Law - the whole Law - is a marriage covenant, a contract between Israel and Jehovah. one which Israel broke by adultery, the same one which will judge you if you do not die with The Everlasting Father who paid to redeem you from it with His own blood."

I don't believe Jesus came to "FREE" me from God's Words and instructions. You preach this. That Jesus died so I wouldn't have to follow His Fathers burdensome Instructions any longer. That Jesus died so I wouldn't have a "Bunch of Laws" created by God for my own good to "Live By".

Jesus came to save us from sin, the consequences of my wicked rebellion. He didn't come to save us from God's Laws. After printing and studying, with the help of several adult members of the church I am a member of, we came up with this understanding we all came by from your own words.

I posted this once before and you ignored it. Maybe this time you will show me where I have it wrong.

It seems you believe that God created man, but didn't give Him instructions on how to love Him and Love each other until Moses when He gave Israel His "Whole Law". Yet, He killed whole cities and drowned an entire earth for breaking Laws (Sin) that you preach they didn't even have. This is an unjust God. And when He finally gave it to them, they were so egregious and burdensome, such a "Yoke of Slavery" and so many in number that it was impossible for them to obey Him. Yet He still killed those who didn't obey them. Another reflection of an unjust God.

These poor men and women were just innocent victims of an unjust God and His unjust Laws. If it were not for the Laws, these people would be "Sinless". So this same God sent His own Son to "Remove" HIS LAWS, with His own life, and save them from this unjust God and His unjust commandments.

So maybe you are just ignorant of what your preaching says to people who study it. But when you call God's Instruction He said was for our own good, "just a bunch of laws" no different from any other man made religion, and when you say Jesus died to "Redeem me from God's Laws" actually "The Whole Law" this is the message you are sending.

So given this and many many more of your own words that I have not even posted yet, this is the impression you have left, not just on me, buy several others, some on this very forum.

I think you have been tricked on many levels because you have refused the "Whole Armor" of God. Had you "put it on" you would understand that God is Righteous, and man is wicked above all things. That God's Word's and Work's are Holy and perfect, and Man's words and works are evil. That God's Laws were created for us, for OUR OWN GOOD. And they were Created "That we should walk in them". And that man made religious doctrines and traditions are from the devil.

There is only one spirit in this world who would teach differently and it isn't from above.

 

[Studyman]

I see what your saying, but lets look at the passage itself

1. They believe - even angels believe
2. The claim to have faith - but it is dead (non existent or absent faith)
3. They have no works. (Their personal faith was powerless)

This is the defenition of licentious. Or what people would call easy believism where all you have to do is believe, and your saved and going to heaven, even though there was no faith.

So as a person looking for a church, how would I know if the Church had true faith? There is no such thing as "No Works". Every religious person on the planet has Works. You have Works. What work's do you have that show "Your personal faith has power"?