Not By Works
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I agree with what you say above.
I do want to say that sometimes when one leaves the faith, they do come back.
Sometimes they don't. As I've said many times,,,Jesus will not force us to come back...He does look for us and will always accept us back --- but we have to want to go back. Look how sweet that little lamb is on His shoulders -- he's not struggling but going quietly and peacefully.
Can you not accept that some people just want OUT? And never come back?
What's 2 Peter 2:19-20 all about? It doesn't matter who it's talking about, teachers,,,fine...it matters that they left the faith.
I agree with what you say above.
I do want to say that sometimes when one leaves the faith, they do come back.
Sometimes they don't. As I've said many times,,,Jesus will not force us to come back...He does look for us and will always accept us back --- but we have to want to go back. Look how sweet that little lamb is on His shoulders -- he's not struggling but going quietly and peacefully.
Can you not accept that some people just want OUT? And never come back?
What's 2 Peter 2:19-20 all about? It doesn't matter who it's talking about, teachers,,,fine...it matters that they left the faith.
N
hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
what does "to renew them again unto repentance" mean here to you
In your belief system where man plucks themself from Gods hand or He forsakes them after He makes them new, I would think that "if" in verse 6 would mean "when" opposed to "if it were possible"....
When do you believe someone has failed to maintain their own salvation and fallen away?
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
what does "to renew them again unto repentance" mean here to you
In your belief system where man plucks themself from Gods hand or He forsakes them after He makes them new, I would think that "if" in verse 6 would mean "when" opposed to "if it were possible"....
When do you believe someone has failed to maintain their own salvation and fallen away?
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@NoNameMcgee
You could disagree and not post all you want to my dear old friend.
The fact is that I'M not the one making the statements.
You'll have to take it up with the very first Christian theologians and the N.T. writers.
Have you ever read the early theologians?
It would blow your mind how super intelligent they were and how well they understood the Apostles; some of whom knew them, travelled with them, and studied with them.
Check it out.
You could disagree and not post all you want to my dear old friend.
The fact is that I'M not the one making the statements.
You'll have to take it up with the very first Christian theologians and the N.T. writers.
Have you ever read the early theologians?
It would blow your mind how super intelligent they were and how well they understood the Apostles; some of whom knew them, travelled with them, and studied with them.
Check it out.
Oh please. If you need ME to explain the above to you...
then you better just start all over again.
Do YOU think that God would not want you back?
What do YOU think the above means?
And, BTW, I don't have my very own belief system.
It seems to be what the bible teaches and is taught in mainline churches that like to hold on to the truth.
And what is the truth?
????
Nice to speak to you NoName.
then you better just start all over again.
Do YOU think that God would not want you back?
What do YOU think the above means?
And, BTW, I don't have my very own belief system.
It seems to be what the bible teaches and is taught in mainline churches that like to hold on to the truth.
And what is the truth?
????
Nice to speak to you NoName.
N
You said old friend but I do not know you from the account you are on, I must have mistaken you for someone else if it is not obvious to you who I mean.
(and of course I know what it means... praise God... I don't know what you believe it to mean...and seeing as how we keep disagreeing it is safe to assume we may believe it means different things)
OK. Here we go.
Hebrews 6:4-6
This is being written to a Jewish audience that had been taught all their life that they had to work to please God and to be what we today call Saved.
Those Pharisees treated them like slaves and underlings and were the blind leading the blind...as Jesus said.
Paul was trying to explain to them that they were saved by faith in God, just like in the O.T. FAith saves, not works of the law. So some of the Jews accepted this. But after a while they began to have doubts because they had been so deeply indoctrinated from birth.
So Paul was telling them that, after tasting the love of God, they RETURNED TO THE LAW, there could be no further salvation for them.
This is what it means. It has nothing to do with persons that decide they no longer want to be Christian....totally different situation.
Do you agree?
God always wants us back.
The Prodigal Son
Hebrews 6:4-6
This is being written to a Jewish audience that had been taught all their life that they had to work to please God and to be what we today call Saved.
Those Pharisees treated them like slaves and underlings and were the blind leading the blind...as Jesus said.
Paul was trying to explain to them that they were saved by faith in God, just like in the O.T. FAith saves, not works of the law. So some of the Jews accepted this. But after a while they began to have doubts because they had been so deeply indoctrinated from birth.
So Paul was telling them that, after tasting the love of God, they RETURNED TO THE LAW, there could be no further salvation for them.
This is what it means. It has nothing to do with persons that decide they no longer want to be Christian....totally different situation.
Do you agree?
God always wants us back.
The Prodigal Son
N
I do not agree. I also do not agree that "The prodigal son" is a story of a saved believer losing salvation and then regaining salvation.
If it is impossible to renew him to repentance......how did God take him "back"
what does that say about your words that there could be no more "further" salvation
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No D,
I don't conflate Romans and James as many do.
The N.T. is perfectly reconciled for me. Paul taught what James taught what Jesus taught.
I see no difference.
Please note what you posted above:
WE CONCLUDE THAT MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS.
Right!
When did I EVER say this was not true?
We are justified by FAITH. I'm sure you've studied justification.
But then comes sanctification. That is an on-going process that lasts all our life.
If we abandon God...HOW will we continue to be sanctified?
2 Thessalonians 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
We are saved through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. If we no longer have faith, HOW would the Holy Spirit continue to sanctify us??
2 Timothy 2:21
21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
This is what sancification is: Being set aside, made holy (same as sanctify) for God's good works.
How does a person who no longer wishes to serve the Lord stay sanctified?
I don't conflate Romans and James as many do.
The N.T. is perfectly reconciled for me. Paul taught what James taught what Jesus taught.
I see no difference.
Please note what you posted above:
WE CONCLUDE THAT MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS.
Right!
When did I EVER say this was not true?
We are justified by FAITH. I'm sure you've studied justification.
But then comes sanctification. That is an on-going process that lasts all our life.
If we abandon God...HOW will we continue to be sanctified?
2 Thessalonians 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
We are saved through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. If we no longer have faith, HOW would the Holy Spirit continue to sanctify us??
2 Timothy 2:21
21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
This is what sancification is: Being set aside, made holy (same as sanctify) for God's good works.
How does a person who no longer wishes to serve the Lord stay sanctified?