What should our views be on LGBT

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Sep 20, 2018
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A 1960 cultural whirlwind didn’t disappear with every subsequent decade thereafter. The descendants of the sexual-R grew to produce and permeate a portion of the population forcing both the counterpart and themselves to endure. Now, both sides wish to think on how irrelevant of a myth the other has become.

But now that brings itself into another far older sparring, those who do and do not hold to a myth of a secular nation. Renegades and deserters have infested both camps and thanks to ungodly detachable theologies, sects of the faith, we endure a rightful scattering.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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A 1960 cultural whirlwind didn’t disappear with every subsequent decade thereafter. The descendants of the sexual-R grew to produce and permeate a portion of the population forcing both the counterpart and themselves to endure. Now, both sides wish to think on how irrelevant of a myth the other has become.

But now that brings itself into another far older sparring, those who do and do not hold to a myth of a secular nation. Renegades and deserters have infested both camps and thanks to ungodly detachable theologies, sects of the faith, we endure a rightful scattering.
Not sure what point you are making. I look at the facts easily found.
1. Gary North wrote a book I have "Crossed Fingers". In it he details how starting in the 1880s secular ministers started going to seminaries in order to become a minister and get access to the church money. As more and more entered into the Presbyterian USA by 1932 it had become a secular denomination. The completion of it was defrocking the last Christian minister, Rev. Mechan, who had control over the mission fund. This is detailed in the book.

2. He states that while this was happening the same thing was happening to the 6 other big protestant denominations. Now only the sub denominations and independent churches still preach the gospel message.

3. For proof just attend a service in a Presbyterian USA church and see if Jesus is mentioned much less the gospel message will even be heard.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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how should we best love the sinner but hate the sin

as an analogy, a good doctor cares for the patient but hates the bad habits of the patient that leads to the illness and the disease that the patient is suffering from
I personally don't use the saying or motto "love the sinner and hate the sin, " but what that basically is that you still treat others as you should anyone with love, despite their sinful differences, and you DO NOT accept their sin and just let it go on without warning them of What God and his word says, but you do that with love, and just as well, you don't fall in love or participate in what sinful things they do and don't support it.

It's simple. You know someone who is LGBT, if you just met them it wouldn't be very loving to just immediately throw scripture in their face then leave them. But speak with them a little while, and whenever the subject comes up or needs to, show them scripture, explain the gospel, let them know you tell them because you care about them and so does the Lord, make it clear youare not telling them because you hate them or hate the sin, but that you love them despite their sin and evilness and you want them to come to the Lord who made them and loves them. If they refuse, no need to keep repeating it over and over, I'm sure they remember hearing something they hate to accept. Leave the rest to the Lord and just continue to love.

The reason I don't say love the sinner and hate sin, is because it begins to look like you're telling them the truth because you hate sin, which that shouldn't be the reason you're telling them, or should be that you love them and it's simply the truth. But I'm not saying people can't use or follow that saying. It's just usually more focused on hate than love. People are what they do. If you tell them you hate sin, it sounds like you hate them because all they are is sin. Heh.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,752
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Hey all,

I seem to never be on the same page with other Christians when it comes to LGBT issues. I see it as a disgusting sin that brings judgment upon the nations that accept its practice.

I'm always get accused of being judgemental, they say hate the sin not the sinner. However, I want no part of it, I cannot stand to know anyone who is LGBT. When in contact with them and despite becoming purely disgusted and very uncomfortable, I do treat them with respect just like any other person.

They see it as it's just like other sins, agreed, sin is still sin. But, this sin is praised and accepted throughout nations, practiced in communities, and accepted in churches. Would you praise a drunkard? Fight for rapist rights? Fly a flag supporting pedophiles? everyone sins, but no one should glorify it and it is against God's word.
One word: celibacy. Otherwise you cannot be admitted to the Church congregation.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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I personally don't use the saying or motto "love the sinner and hate the sin, " but what that basically is that you still treat others as you should anyone with love, despite their sinful differences, and you DO NOT accept their sin and just let it go on without warning them of What God and his word says, but you do that with love, and just as well, you don't fall in love or participate in what sinful things they do and don't support it.

It's simple. You know someone who is LGBT, if you just met them it wouldn't be very loving to just immediately throw scripture in their face then leave them. But speak with them a little while, and whenever the subject comes up or needs to, show them scripture, explain the gospel, let them know you tell them because you care about them and so does the Lord, make it clear youare not telling them because you hate them or hate the sin, but that you love them despite their sin and evilness and you want them to come to the Lord who made them and loves them. If they refuse, no need to keep repeating it over and over, I'm sure they remember hearing something they hate to accept. Leave the rest to the Lord and just continue to love.

The reason I don't say love the sinner and hate sin, is because it begins to look like you're telling them the truth because you hate sin, which that shouldn't be the reason you're telling them, or should be that you love them and it's simply the truth. But I'm not saying people can't use or follow that saying. It's just usually more focused on hate than love. People are what they do. If you tell them you hate sin, it sounds like you hate them because all they are is sin. Heh.
The concept of love the sinner and hate the sin comes from the fact we are all sinners and no sin is considered by God to be worse than any other sin. We are also commanded to love one more another and by this love we will be known. These 2 concepts means that while we hate the sin which we see in ourselves and others we still follow the command to love one another.

At judgement time the only sin we should be concerned about is rejecting the grace God offers to us as a free gift causing us to have faith in Jesus.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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The concept of love the sinner and hate the sin comes from the fact we are all sinners and no sin is considered by God to be worse than any other sin. We are also commanded to love one more another and by this love we will be known. These 2 concepts means that while we hate the sin which we see in ourselves and others we still follow the command to love one another.

At judgement time the only sin we should be concerned about is rejecting the grace God offers to us as a free gift causing us to have faith in Jesus.
Yes but the problem with telling others that is how they receive it that you hate them.

See, sinners are called they because they are what they do. They sin. That's what makes them a sinner. So you saying hate the sin, then you hate what they do, if you hate what they do that makes them what they are, you hate them because sin is what they are. Sin and sinner are equal, they're both of sin. I get where this saying is coming from, but many people will not believe you that you love them yet you say you hate their sin.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Yes but the problem with telling others that is how they receive it that you hate them.

See, sinners are called they because they are what they do. They sin. That's what makes them a sinner. So you saying hate the sin, then you hate what they do, if you hate what they do that makes them what they are, you hate them because sin is what they are. Sin and sinner are equal, they're both of sin. I get where this saying is coming from, but many people will not believe you that you love them yet you say you hate their sin.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
I understand but disagree with you. Obviously you have never had evangalism training. You don't tell them you hate their sin. That is the flaw in your argument. You only treat them as a friend until you think they are ready to discuss religion. Then and only then you start talking about mistakes everybody makes and how there is grace from God about those mistakes. Then slowly tell them about Jesus, God incarnate, and why he died on the cross for us thus providing that grace through faith in Jesus. It is a slow deliberate process!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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It's sick out there, and getting sicker!!
Mom Says 6-Year-Old Son Is Transgender. Dad Disagrees. Now He Might Lose His Son.

ByAMANDA PRESTIGIACOMO
@AMANDAPRESTO
November 27, 2018
A Texas father is fighting for his son in court after pushing back on his ex-wife's claim that their six-year-old is a transgender girl.
According to court documents, the young boy only dresses as a girl when he's with his mother, who has enrolled him in first-grade as a female named "Luna." The father, however, contends that his son consistently chooses to wear boy's clothes, "violently refuses to wear girl’s clothes at my home," and identifies as a boy when he is with him.

The Federalist reports that the mother has accused the father of child abuse in their divorce proceedings "for not affirming James as transgender" and is looking to strip the dad of his parental rights. "She is also seeking to require him to pay for the child’s visits to a transgender-affirming therapist and transgender medical alterations, which may include hormonal sterilization starting at age eight," the report adds.

The father has been legally barred from speaking to his child about sexuality and gender from a scientific or religious perspective and from dressing his son in boys' clothes; instead, he has to offer both girls' and boys' outfits. The boy consistently refuses to wear dresses, according to the father.

The boy was diagnosed with gender dysphoria by a gender transition therapist the mother, a pediatrician, chose for her son to see. According to the therapist's notes, the boy chose to identify as a girl when he was in sessions alone with his mother; alternatively, he chose to identify as a boy when he was in sessions alone with his father. The Federalist reports:

[A] dossier filed with the Dallas court says that, under the skilled eyes of the therapist, the child was presented two pieces of paper, one with the word “James” and one with the word “Luna,” and asked to pick the name he preferred. When the appointment only included his mother, James selected Luna, the name and gender he uses at his mother’s home and in his first-grade classroom. When the appointment was only with his father, however, James pointed to the boy name James, not the girl name.
Moreover, the father has collected testimony from parents of his son's friends and a church leader who say they have only seen the six-year-old identify as a male.

The boy's pastor, Christ Church Carrollton Bill Lovell, said, "Based on the three occasions I’ve spent time with him, I’d say he acts and looks unmistakably like a healthy six-year-old boy. ... I am praying for [him], an average six-year-old boy, a sweet-natured, intelligent, lovable and at this point particularly vulnerable young man, caught up in a titanic clash of worldviews."

"His mother came to pick up the boys to take them to [his brother’s] soccer game," recalled Sarah Scott, a family friend and mother of three sons who are close with the boy. "[He] hugged his dad and said, 'Love you.' He refused to go to the soccer game as a girl with mom and stayed with dad. That evening they came to our house."

Needless to say, the gender dysphoria diagnosis is being contested by the boy's dad.

Walt Heyer, author of Trans Life Survivors and former transgender female, warns that the potential diagnosis could ruin the boy's life, similar to what he went through after he was secretly cross-dressed by this grandmother for two-and-a-half years as a young boy.

"The diagnosis is critical, because labeling a child with gender dysphoria can trigger a series of physical and mental consequences for the child and has legal ramifications in the ongoing custody case. Get it wrong," Heyer writes at The Federalist, the boy's "life is irrevocably harmed."

The boy's "precious young life hinges purely on the diagnosis of gender dysphoria by a therapist who wraps herself in rainbow colors, affirms the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and dismisses evidence to the contrary," argues Heyer. "Remove the 'rainbow' from [the] diagnosis, and it crumbles under the weight of the criteria for the diagnosis of gender dysphoria."

The author warned, "If we do not save [the boy] from a misdiagnosis, his next step is chemical castration at age eight, only two years away."


The family fighting to save the boy from the potential misdiagnosis has set up a website called "Save James."
 
Aug 12, 2013
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I understand but disagree with you. Obviously you have never had evangalism training. You don't tell them you hate their sin. That is the flaw in your argument. You only treat them as a friend until you think they are ready to discuss religion. Then and only then you start talking about mistakes everybody makes and how there is grace from God about those mistakes. Then slowly tell them about Jesus, God incarnate, and why he died on the cross for us thus providing that grace through faith in Jesus. It is a slow deliberate process!
You CLEARLY misunderstood my message.by what you're saying and I was saying, you actually agree with me.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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I understand but disagree with you. Obviously you have never had evangalism training. You don't tell them you hate their sin. That is the flaw in your argument. You only treat them as a friend until you think they are ready to discuss religion. Then and only then you start talking about mistakes everybody makes and how there is grace from God about those mistakes. Then slowly tell them about Jesus, God incarnate, and why he died on the cross for us thus providing that grace through faith in Jesus. It is a slow deliberate process!
Iget all that, again. If you hate someone's sin, then you hate them. We are what we are from what we do. We are sin because we sin. You hate the sin, then you hate the sinner too, they are one together.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
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Hey all,

I seem to never be on the same page with other Christians when it comes to LGBT issues. I see it as a disgusting sin that brings judgment upon the nations that accept its practice.

I'm always get accused of being judgemental, they say hate the sin not the sinner. However, I want no part of it, I cannot stand to know anyone who is LGBT. When in contact with them and despite becoming purely disgusted and very uncomfortable, I do treat them with respect just like any other person.

They see it as it's just like other sins, agreed, sin is still sin. But, this sin is praised and accepted throughout nations, practiced in communities, and accepted in churches. Would you praise a drunkard? Fight for rapist rights? Fly a flag supporting pedophiles? everyone sins, but no one should glorify it and it is against God's word.
I am thinking about a post on another forum about Lettuce Guacamole Bacon and Tomato sandwhiches-- LGBTs.

The Bible says of arsenokoite and malakos (which I think probably refers to both participants in a male same-sex sexual act) that they shall not inherit the kingdom of God, but such were some of you, but now ye are washed, now ye are sanctified, now ye are justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

How are you with Christians who used to live that kind of lifestyle? Are you as repulsed by fornicators and adulterers?

The Old Testament does call this sort of thing an abomination. An abomination is abhorent and replusive. I think it is normal to be repulsed by such activities. It's right along the lines as doing such things with animals as far as I'm concerned. The idea of two men doing such things is repulsive to me, too. I find the idea of lesbian activities offensive, too, but it just isn't as repulsive on an emotional level to me as the male-male thing. I heard a Christian psychologist say they called this feeling 'homophobia' but he thought it was natural and normal. Ideologues have taken over fields like psychology and various fields of academia on this issue. Psychologists used to point out the negatives of homosexuals, how they were the type who liked to flaunt social norms, etc.

I do find men 'acting gay' to be offputting. And a man dressing up like a woman is just really ugly and repulsive. I walked around a mall looking for a barber who didn't act gay and seem a bit too excited to see me when I was young I lived overseas. Once, I specifically asked for a woman to cut my hair, and they assigned a young woman to me who kept contacting my back in an inappropriate manner. I leaned forward. I learned to use a word for mother or older woman when I asked this later and never had that problem again.

Anyway, I can relate.

But if I know someone is a homosexual, I don't think about them having repulsive sex acts, and I can treat them like a normal human being. These are also people for whom Jesus died. All sin is ugly, and God had mercy on us.

I think it is important for us to realize that 'homosexual' actually refers to a man who is attracted to other men. Nowadays, 'gay' is used the same way. It's about attraction or 'orientation', as they say, not what sex acts they perform. So if preachers are saying 'gays are going to hell', that's not the right way to approach it. The poor virgin who is struggling with same sex attraction who has been told by the LGBT movement that he/she was made that way and it's set in stone may feel damned to hell with no recourse.

I also see that our society has gone crazy. If some white man went into a job interview and mentioned that he was sexually attracted to blonds, redheads, or Asians, then he might be denied a job for bringing such a subject up. But if someone claims to be gay, the way the EEOC has interpreted case law in a warped way, it is considered illegal to discriminate against that person. I do not think homosexuals should ahve any special legal protections for either their desires or their lifestyle. It is also a rather warped society that would penalize you if you rightly discriminated against a drag queen in regarding to renting the other half of your duplex to keep your kids away from such a strange influence.
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
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In response to the article "Mom Says 6-Year-Old Son Is Transgender. Dad Disagrees. Now He Might Lose His Son." posted by PennEd, what in the name of sanity is going on? This is getting more and more a joke.

This is truly sick and evil this agenda. This article itself shows how downhill the world is going. Not even animals would do this to their own kind.

This madness has gone on to far, and it has to stop. I cannot even imagine what this dad must be going through. So many children will be destroyed by this madness.

This twisted and sick transgender and same-sex acceptance agenda reminds of what is written in Mat 23.15. These people will never stop until they convert as many as possible to a lifestyle that will see such a society destroyed like what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah. This agenda is like comparing rust to iron and steel, if the rust is not dealt with, it will spread.
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
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I'm not putting myself above anyone or judging them, I'm simply asking why are Christians accepting that its apart of normal life. I will be the first to admit my shortcoming, only thing is I do not fly a flag and march for rights to do it. I am not perfect, that's why I need Christ like we all do.You want proof of judgment on nations? Look what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, the main sin was homosexuality.
Nope. the sin was in-hospitality. May I suggest that you are disgusted and hate what you do not know or understand.
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
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To really get a good understanding, of what happened to Sodom, read the the Book of Yasher/Jasher. Even though Jude 1.7 makes a reference to sexual immorality, the book of Yasher really goes into a lot of detail about Sodom.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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To really get a good understanding, of what happened to Sodom, read the the Book of Yasher/Jasher. Even though Jude 1.7 makes a reference to sexual immorality, the book of Yasher really goes into a lot of detail about Sodom.
Is that a book they kept out of the KJV bible and other versions? Like they did with Enoch? Because I know Yasher isn't a name in the Bibles we mostly read.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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How do I feel about the LGBT community? I believe that I am in agreement with my Lord on this. With that said, it has been hard for me to get there because my niece who was brought up in a very Christian home has chosen to marry a female...:(. It breaks my heart, but more so for my beautiful Sister and Brother in Law.

I have a conservative and Christian daughter and a liberal daughter who isn't sure what she believes. My Christian daughter said to me not too long ago, "Mama, I love your heart, but quit dodging this issue, where do you stand?" To which I replied, "I stand with Christ". I admit that is a lame response in the incompleteness, kinda a cop out but I just struggled with God being concerned with our privates, thinking He is so beyond them. I think He is more concerned with our hearts and I am so thankful it is not my cross to bear.

He has been showing me scriptures, though, that reaffirm what He thinks and how He created us to be so I have been able to be more firm in my resolve to speak honestly about how I feel about it.

So yes, it is a sin and it shouldn't be approved or glorified. I still think, though, that we need to reach more lost souls, struggling with this darkness and other kinds of shadowy presences, through prayers and with our hearts for Him and for others.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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How do I feel about the LGBT community? I believe that I am in agreement with my Lord on this. With that said, it has been hard for me to get there because my niece who was brought up in a very Christian home has chosen to marry a female...:(. It breaks my heart, but more so for my beautiful Sister and Brother in Law.

I have a conservative and Christian daughter and a liberal daughter who isn't sure what she believes. My Christian daughter said to me not too long ago, "Mama, I love your heart, but quit dodging this issue, where do you stand?" To which I replied, "I stand with Christ". I admit that is a lame response in the incompleteness, kinda a cop out but I just struggled with God being concerned with our privates, thinking He is so beyond them. I think He is more concerned with our hearts and I am so thankful it is not my cross to bear.

He has been showing me scriptures, though, that reaffirm what He thinks and how He created us to be so I have been able to be more firm in my resolve to speak honestly about how I feel about it.

So yes, it is a sin and it shouldn't be approved or glorified. I still think, though, that we need to reach more lost souls, struggling with this darkness and other kinds of shadowy presences, through prayers and with our hearts for Him and for others.
Your answer wasn't lame nor incomplete imho. It was concise and said it all.

Our world seems to concentrate on the issue of sodomy while the fact remains it is not the only sin that damns men's souls to hell.

They are saved just like every other lost soul, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

Somehow this group of today feel tat somehow they must be given a different gospel, special provisions, some sort of customized gospel. There are none, the One Way is immutable.

Preachers are like "How can we reach them???" as if it hasn't been clear since the beginning: Through the same exact Gospel that all his elect are saved.

No one gets special privileges, the foot of the cross is level, all outside of Christ are in the same boat. Even those who think they are morally good in comparison, if they are not converted, will spend an eternity in hell.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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what's the most gentle possible rebuke you've ever heard?
"I need to rebuke you. because you're sinning, you know it, and you need to stop."

Everytime I have ever been rebuked though, they had no scripture to back up what they were even saying, and it was even pastors.