Sabbath

[Lillywolf]

I do not have a problem with Sabbath. I fully agree Sunday worship is a pagan Roman entry into tradition. I worship with The Church of God Seventh-Day out of Denver, Colorado. I have kept the spirit of Sabbath since coming back to Christ late in '83.

My problem is with Ellen White and her prophecies. SDA has a Revelation Seminar that is chock full of holes. All based on The Great Controversy book. I agree with many things the SDA hold as truths. The Adventist movement of 1844 spawned more than just the SDA church. By the time SDA was founded in 1860, the mainstream Adventists embraced Ellen's book. Those that didn't broke off into other groups. My people are from these other groups.

I watch from time to time , as right now it is on in the TV room, the 3ABN channel. Their sermons are from the Bible and the only time they refer to Ellen White is when they feature a historic recollection of her activities in the church. The Seventh Day Adventists were not invented by White. The church was in existence before her arrival. It was failing though and it is said she came and revived it. That according to the documentary 3ABN broadcast a couple of years ago.

I don't think someone need affiliate with the controversial denomination that is SDA. I watch their broadcast for the Bible service.
Rather, I think that they simply hold to what God ordained as the Sabbath. Sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday as a day of worship. All existed long before SDA or Ellen White.

And as Jesus exampled and much to the anger of the temple elders, one can serve God on Sabbath day because Sabbath was made for that purpose.
There is a lot wrong with any denominational church if we look deeply enough. On the surface we can find it easily enough by asking ourselves, what denomination did Jesus found in the scriptures?
None.
There is no Baptist denomination in scripture. There is no Methodist, no Presbyterian, etc.... There are over 600 denominations in the world today. And there is no scriptural reason for them save to confuse the seeker concerning the words and practice of faith in God.
“For God is not the author of confusion” (1 Corinthians 14:33). The enemy, the adversary, is.

Jesus built his church. He was the rock. Matthew 16:18 "I will build my church...."

The living word of God and the book that breathes his truth, the Bible, and Christ Jesus are our foundation. That is the actual church of Christ. Christ and his teachings alone.

Etymology "Denomination"
denomination (n.)
late 14c., denominacioun, "a naming, act of giving a name to," from Old French denominacion"nominating, naming," from Latin denominationem (nominative denominatio) "a calling by anything other than the proper name, metonymy," noun of action from past-participle stem of denominare "to name," from de- "completely" (see de-) + nominare "to name," from nomen "name" (from PIE root *no-men- "name").

From mid-15c. as "a class name, a collective designation," of things; of persons, "a society or collection of individuals," 1660s. From the first comes the monetary sense (1650s) from the second the meaning "religious sect" (1716).

 

[Lillywolf]

Simple fact of forums. The longer the post the fewer will read them. You just posted 3 very long posts. Most likely nobody will read them. Therefore no one will bother. Too many words. I didn't bother to read them!!

That's what makes people appear ignorant when they try to respond to what they scrolled right past.
You can't speak for everyone.

And just as a point of observation. Anyone who doesn't bother to read a long post that has scriptural references to support the posters point of view or teaching, will make a very poor example as someone who later claims to sit and read their Bible every day, if at all.

 

[stonesoffire]

The Old Testament was types and shadows of what is truth and that is Son. He is the whole of what we are, what we are in (His body on earth), and who we trust in completely. That is rest. Resting in His blood of His Cross for salvation, and His resurrection for new life...a whole new way of worship. In Spirit and in truth.

So define Spirit and Truth. What does this mean? A day as in a 24 hour period of time?

 

[Churinga]

it was a command for the nation of Israel only. it was never commanded for gentiles. we are to take a day of rest, as God the father instituted in the Creation, but non-jews were never under the Sabbath command.

Gentiles are not required to keep the Sabbath and that as you state is a fact

 

[Lillywolf]

Gentiles are not required to keep the Sabbath and that as you state is a fact

I think if we continue to encourage gb9 to respond in this particular subject we'll continue to realize they have deep seeded issues with the Hebrew/Jewish/Semitic origin of the Bible and our Messiah.

Is it right to do that? For my part, no. After awhile it becomes repetitive to the point the unrepentant sin is a greater and greater shame.

 

[Churinga]

Being indwelt by God's holy spirit we're always in relationship with the most high.
The argument that really doesn't comport with scripture is that which condemns observation of the Sabbath, while the one making that argument knows themselves to be one who goes to church on Sunday. That's observing what is the spirit of the Sabbath on a day the Lord did not identify as the day of rest.

There is that argument that repeatedly argues, we are not under the law. And yet, if that is believed they would then be arguing they don't abide nor respect the ten moral commands, or laws of God, that Jesus did not abolish at all. The law and the prophets , he said, hang on two commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your heart. And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The ten commandments encompass that very thing. Are we to disavow those? Thou shalt not steal. Murder. Take the Lord's name in vain. Etc...

Up to the Book of Revelation we read that the Sabbath, this well after Jesus returned to the father, was observed and by the Apostle John on the isle of Patmos.
How is it argued to be something wrong, that we observe God's Sabbath on the day he designed for us to? We Gentiles, or Christians, are grafted into the olive tree an are nourished by its root. Ezekiel 37 & Romans 11.

And how does someone condemn resting on the Bible's Sabbath day, per those scriptures, and worship God in church on a Sunday? Thinking that much better and more in keeping with God's will?
They can't.

Those of us that are Gentiles can choose any day as a Sabbath day, the problem arises when we try to live like Jews raising things that are not necessary

 

[Churinga]

I think if we continue to encourage gb9 to respond in this particular subject we'll continue to realize they have deep seeded issues with the Hebrew/Jewish/Semitic origin of the Bible and our Messiah.

Is it right to do that? For my part, no. After awhile it becomes repetitive to the point the unrepentant sin is a greater and greater shame.

Mixing Law and Grace is like trying to mix oil and water.

 

[Lillywolf]

Those of us that are Gentiles can choose any day as a Sabbath day, the problem arises when we try to live like Jews raising things that are not necessary

Yeah, that pesky Bible is just such a pain when it thinks to tell us the truth of God, while those opposed to the actual scripture think they can choose any edit to make Gentiles more important to God.

There is this book called Revelation.
Come the judgment answers like yours coming from your own lips are going to be worth watching.

 

[Lillywolf]

Mixing Law and Grace is like trying to mix oil and water.

Oh, look, a new member that sounds like the old one. Three posts, joined today, and all in the same thread. This one.
And they're still wrong!

Romans 7:7

Chemistry isn't your strong suit either?
Help yourself. Look up, Ric Pashley .

I'm going to stop reading you now, again. Happy Monday.

 

[gb9]

I think if we continue to encourage gb9 to respond in this particular subject we'll continue to realize they have deep seeded issues with the Hebrew/Jewish/Semitic origin of the Bible and our Messiah.

Is it right to do that? For my part, no. After awhile it becomes repetitive to the point the unrepentant sin is a greater and greater shame.

I have no problem with the Jews / Hebrew people.

what I do have a problem with is some ( like you ) insisting that the Law ( which in Leviticus 26 God the Father specifically says was for the ancestors of those who came out of Egypt ) is to be kept to the letter by Christ followers.

the letter kills. the Sprit gives life.

 

[Lillywolf]

I'm in a discussion about works and salvation, "show your faith through your works" thread.

It reminded me of this thread so I thought I'd interject for those who you all are likely to encounter in their argument against Sabbath. They'll say, the Sabbath was for the Jews! Not the Gentiles.
Not in any scripture in the Bible is there that distinction.
There is this however: Exodus 20:10 Sabbath is the Sabbath of the Lord. Is the Lord a Jew? Of course not.

And in the New Testament (NT) we have Jesus, who is Lord of the Sabbath, that one who established the world and all things. (Colossians 1:13–16 ): “the Sabbath was made for man” Mark 2:27. Does that mean women weren't to honor the Sabbath? Of course not.
There's no distinction in the Sabbath teachings that make Sabbath exclusive to the Jews. God established marriage in the OT as that between one man and one woman. Does this mean only one Jewish man can marry one Jewish woman?

Just to put some perspective on that one of many arguments that hope to convince readers the Sabbath is not relevant to Christians. Hope it helps.

 

[Sketch]

Yes, it was established at creation. I imagine that people were keeping the Sabbath long before there even was a Jew. What makes you think that God didn't share with Adam His intent on Sabbath worship? The law given at Sinai/Horeb didn't establish the Sabbath, it said remember the Sabbath. God made the seventh day holy and man cannot make it unholy.

View attachment 185904

As I understand it, there is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath prior to Exodus chapter sixteen when God gave the Sabbath to the Israelites as part of the manna gathering week. The word Sabbath does not appear in the Bible until then.

 

[Sketch]

Simple fact of forums. The longer the post the fewer will read them. You just posted 3 very long posts. Most likely nobody will read them. Therefore no one will bother. Too many words. I didn't bother to read them!!

So true. TL/DR (too long/didn't read)

 

[gb9]

I'm in a discussion about works and salvation, "show your faith through your works" thread.

It reminded me of this thread so I thought I'd interject for those who you all are likely to encounter in their argument against Sabbath. They'll say, the Sabbath was for the Jews! Not the Gentiles.
Not in any scripture in the Bible is there that distinction.
There is this however: Exodus 20:10 Sabbath is the Sabbath of the Lord. Is the Lord a Jew? Of course not.

And in the New Testament (NT) we have Jesus, who is Lord of the Sabbath, that one who established the world and all things. (Colossians 1:13–16 ): “the Sabbath was made for man” Mark 2:27. Does that mean women weren't to honor the Sabbath? Of course not.
There's no distinction in the Sabbath teachings that make Sabbath exclusive to the Jews. God established marriage in the OT as that between one man and one woman. Does this mean only one Jewish man can marry one Jewish woman?

Just to put some perspective on that one of many arguments that hope to convince readers the Sabbath is not relevant to Christians. Hope it helps.

except for the fact that in Leviticus 26 , God the Father said of the Mosaic Covenant , the bulk of which is the Law, that it was for the ancestors who came out of Egypt.

so, if your lineage does not trace back to the jews who crossed the red sea, then that covenant , which contained the Law, was not for you.

not to mention . Paul said in Romans 2 that the gentiles did not have the Law.

righteous intent. not the letter.

 

[Lillywolf]

I have no problem with the Jews / Hebrew people.

what I do have a problem with is some ( like you ) insisting that the Law ( which in Leviticus 26 God the Father specifically says was for the ancestors of those who came out of Egypt ) is to be kept to the letter by Christ followers.

the letter kills. the Sprit gives life.

You're not referring to me. I've never said what you accuse. Not once.

 

[Lillywolf]

except for the fact that in Leviticus 26 , God the Father said of the Mosaic Covenant , the bulk of which is the Law, that it was for the ancestors who came out of Egypt.

so, if your lineage does not trace back to the jews who crossed the red sea, then that covenant , which contained the Law, was not for you.

Israel? Is the name of a man.
Not just Jews. Read more.
See, if you were correct, Jesus would only have died to save the Jews. Because , as you think to argue there, the old covenant pertained to the Mosaic. And so you know, there are 7 covenants in the Bible, then thinking only the Mosaic applies that would mean the new covenant would have to have applied only to the Jews. But that isn't so.


Children of Israel Bible Study
When you ask most people who are the children of Israel, most will say the Jewish people. Well, they would be right to a point but the children of Israel are made up of more than just the Jewish people. Seeing that it was God's idea for the children of Israel and the nation of Israel, there is no better place to find information on their beginning than the Bible.
The first thing we need to know about the children of Israel is that Israel is the name of a man.
Genesis 32:28
V28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
God changes Jacob's name to Israel. This is the first time that the word Israel is used in the Bible. .....[Study continues here]

You see, in the Bible we find there are 12 tribes of Israel.
(Pasted from the link above)

1. Reuben
2. Simeon
3. Levi
4. Judah
5. Zebulun
6. Issachar
7. Dan
8. Gad
9. Asher
10. Naphtali
11. Joseph
12. Benjamin

not to mention . Paul said in Romans 2 that the gentiles did not have the Law.

righteous intent. not the letter.

No, you sure didn't mention about Romans 2. Let me correct that for you. I respond to you because to let you lead people wrongly in this is wrong.
I suggest members read all of Romans 2. In relation to Gentiles?

Romans 2:11 for there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; 13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified; 14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; 15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

 

[Lillywolf]

As I understand it, there is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath prior to Exodus chapter sixteen when God gave the Sabbath to the Israelites as part of the manna gathering week. The word Sabbath does not appear in the Bible until then.

Genesis 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.....

 

[gb9]

you see, ms. lily, this is why we need to read the whole Bible, and consider context and chronological order,

we do not need to mix Old Testament and New Testament and criss-cross covenants. rightly divide the Words of truth.

what you and others do is deconstruct and reconstruct Scripture with personal opinions mixed in. that is not proper theology .

 

[Sketch]

except for the fact that in Leviticus 26 , God the Father said of the Mosaic Covenant , the bulk of which is the Law, that it was for the ancestors who came out of Egypt.

so, if your lineage does not trace back to the jews who crossed the red sea, then that covenant , which contained the Law, was not for you.

not to mention . Paul said in Romans 2 that the gentiles did not have the Law.

righteous intent. not the letter.

That's a great point. I would add that, the even second set of the TCs in Deuteronomy (5:15) says the Sabbath was for those who were slaves in Egypt. Those in the Exodus.

Deuteronomy 5:12-15
“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

 

[Sketch]

Genesis 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.....

Like I said:
"As I understand it, there is no evidence of any human keeping the Sabbath prior to Exodus chapter sixteen when God gave the Sabbath to the Israelites as part of the manna gathering week. The word Sabbath does not appear in the Bible until then. "