Faith

[garee]

There are so many references of people, even the Apostles, believing efore the Holy Spirit entered into them……….If you want references, I am afraid the post would be exceptionally long.

Even the Apostles, who I believe you will agree were believing Jesus, did not receive the Holy Spirit until Pentecost………….though at times God would speak to them, as I believe He did to me long before the Holy Spirit actually came to dwell within.

If the Holy Spirit does not testify against this report.......and you yet do not believe, read it in the Book, starting with the Gospels.......

The gospel begins in Genesis . Abel having received the Holy Spirit the source of hearing God. God reveals to us He worked in Abel to both will and do the good pleasure of God as a imputed righteousness . Abel's blood still cries out as a witness that he heard the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God .

Believing God comes by receiving the hearing God as a work of the faith of God. He must do the first works. All the old testament saint that did have the Holy Spirit heard Him say arise as the promised glory the first resurrection.

The idea that the Holy Spirit did not come until Pentecost is a oral tradition of men.

1 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

What do it mean he lives in us would be the question?

 

[luigi]

It is Jesus's faith that justifies us eternally, not our faith (Gal 2:16). Our faith, in what Jesus has accomplished for us, can save (deliver) us here in time, but not eternally. Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith (of Christ, not our faith) and that not of yourselves.

I hope you don't mind my interrupting here ForestGreenCook, but Ephesians 2:8 terminates in a colon, with Ephesians 2:9 completing the statement: where "that not of yourselves: Not of works, lest any many should boast."
This therefore does not mean what you have stated that it is not our faith that justifies us.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[JaumeJ]

I

The gospel begins in Genesis . Abel having received the Holy Spirit the source of hearing God. God reveals to us He worked in Abel to both will and do the good pleasure of God as a imputed righteousness . Abel's blood still cries out as a witness that he heard the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God .

Believing God comes by receiving the hearing God as a work of the faith of God. He must do the first works. All the old testament saint that did have the Holy Spirit heard Him say arise as the promised glory the first resurrection.

The idea that the Holy Spirit did not come until Pentecost is a oral tradition of men.

1 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

What do it mean he lives in us would be the question?

I may only speak from my own experience and study....... All you have said here is true only to a point. Of course many of the notables of the Old Testament were led by the Holy Spirit....... Pentecost is the fulfillment of God appearing to Israel on the mountain.

The Holy Spirit was given by Jesus Christ as He promised on Pentecost, this cannot be refuted unles you are going to edit the Word.

As for the Gospel it was first preahed to Abraham when he was also promised his descendants would possess the Gate, Jesus, Yeshua, of their eneemies..

This is how the Word is, and I b elieve it. Please do not just "tell" people how you undrsand without at least paraphrased references.

 

[garee]

The old testament saints and the apostles believed in spiritual things because they had been regenerated and given the indwelling of the "Holy Spirit" (Isaiah 63:11) - Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he that put his "Holy Spirit" within him? The "comforter" which is the "Holy Ghost" was not given until Jesus ascended. The Holy Spirit gives a person the ability to believe. The Holy Ghost reveals Christ's teachings.

The comfort of the Holy Spirit was restrained when the Son of God Jesus was here (33 years) maybe in respect to 500 true followers of the Holy Spirit that did work in them to both will and perform His good pleasure. In that way no man could serve two masters. God unseen as the thing God, and the flesh of men seen as the things of men.

The Son of man declared His temporal flesh profits for nothing .I would think that must mean something?

Two masters. The flesh of the Son of man, the temporal seen and the unseen eternal Holy Spirit.

It is why Jesus said unless he leaves the comforter who was restrained will come in full glory. Jesus as the Son of man was restricted because men were looking for a fleshly God. Jesus said only God is good, resisting men follow him by that which the eye see. (no faith) When he left the Holy Spirit preached one message and 3,000 souls entered heaven in the twinkling of the eye. The greater things Jesus said His children would do when he left.

 

[garee]

I


I may only speak from my own experience and study....... All you have said here is true only to a point. Of course many of the notables of the Old Testament were led by the Holy Spirit....... Pentecost is the fulfillment of God appearing to Israel on the mountain.

The Holy Spirit was given by Jesus Christ as He promised on Pentecost, this cannot be refuted unles you are going to edit the Word.

As for the Gospel it was first preahed to Abraham when he was also promised his descendants would possess the Gate, Jesus, Yeshua, of their eneemies..

This is how the Word is, and I b elieve it. Please do not just "tell" people how you undrsand without at least paraphrased references.

Thanks .I would offer

I hear the promise for Pentecost it was in lieu that the Son of man first leave so the Holy Spirit in the Holy unseen place of God could receive all honor and glory. He refused the share the Holy unseen place with Jesus seen. Men tried to have the Son of man stand in the Holy place of God but again and again those like Thomas .who trusted in the things seen Jesus would use it as a example of the faithless (no faith) as in natural man.

He resisted being call good a place reserved for God unseen

Looking at a imputed righteousness which can be seen in Philippians 2: 13 and Job 23. With that we can see who it is that does all the work by which we can believe move and have our being.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Philippians 2: 13

For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Job 23

Another way of saying the Holy Spirit was restrained temporarily is in the blasphemy doctrines. He repeats it twice (against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Neither in the world to come.

There because the Holy Spirit was restrained blasphemy against the Son of man Jesus as the "things of men" was forgivable . Peter experienced that forgiveness every time he blasphemed the Son of man . After Pentecostthat that no longer became possible.(no forgiveness today . The key is a proper understanding between "the things of God" the eternal not seen and "those of men" the temporal seen .

What we are today is not what we will be.

Peter committing blasphemy against the Son of man

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the "things that be of God", but "those that be of men."Mathew 16;22-23

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I hope you don't mind my interrupting here ForestGreenCook, but Ephesians 2:8 terminates in a colon, with Ephesians 2:9 completing the statement: where "that not of yourselves: Not of works, lest any many should boast."
This therefore does not mean what you have stated that it is not our faith that justifies us.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Did you consider Gal 2:16 before making your determination?

 

[mailmandan]

It is Jesus's faith that justifies us eternally, not our faith (Gal 2:16). Our faith, in what Jesus has accomplished for us, can save (deliver) us here in time, but not eternally. Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith (of Christ, not our faith) and that not of yourselves.

Are you KJV only? I've heard KJV only advocates quote Galatians 2:16 from the KJV and stress, "..the faith of Jesus Christ.." Yet numerous other translations (ASV; ESV; NASB; NIV; NRSV etc..) say, "..by/through faith in Jesus Christ.."

I like the way the AMPC reads - Yet we know that a man is justified or reckoned righteous and in right standing with God not by works of the Law, but [only] through faith and [absolute] reliance on and adherence to and trust in Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

We MUST place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation in order to be saved. Jesus Christ does not place faith in Himself for us. So it's not His faith, but OUR faith.

1 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of YOUR faith—the salvation of your souls.

 

[JaumeJ]

Thanks .I would offer

I hear the promise for Pentecost it was in lieu that the Son of man first leave so the Holy Spirit in the Holy unseen place of God could receive all honor and glory. He refused the share the Holy unseen place with Jesus seen. Men tried to have the Son of man stand in the Holy place of God but again and again those like Thomas .who trusted in the things seen Jesus would use it as a example of the faithless (no faith) as in natural man.

He resisted being call good a place reserved for God unseen

Looking at a imputed righteousness which can be seen in Philippians 2: 13 and Job 23. With that we can see who it is that does all the work by which we can believe move and have our being.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Philippians 2: 13

For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Job 23

Another way of saying the Holy Spirit was restrained temporarily is in the blasphemy doctrines. He repeats it twice (against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Neither in the world to come.

There because the Holy Spirit was restrained blasphemy against the Son of man Jesus as the "things of men" was forgivable . Peter experienced that forgiveness every time he blasphemed the Son of man . After Pentecostthat that no longer became possible.(no forgiveness today . The key is a proper understanding between "the things of God" the eternal not seen and "those of men" the temporal seen .

What we are today is not what we will be.

Peter committing blasphemy against the Son of man

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the "things that be of God", but "those that be of men."Mathew 16;22-23

Who said the Holy Spirit has been restrained? Your sharing here has not much to do with what is actually written except for verses being tied in rather than explained fully. I do not wish to pursue this further with you for what you are sayign is not found in my Bibles. Thanks and god bless you....

 

[garee]

Who said the Holy Spirit has been restrained? Your sharing here has not much to do with what is actually written except for verses being tied in rather than explained fully. I do not wish to pursue this further with you for what you are sayign is not found in my Bibles. Thanks and god bless you....

It does not say that directly like many doctrines. The process of rightly dividing is required.

I would ask was Peter forgiven of his blasphemy? Would he of been forgiven after Pentecost.? Who did forgive Him if not the Holy Spirit? When the restrainer was removed so was the forgiveness removed.

 

[JaumeJ]

It does not say that directly like many doctrines. The process of rightly dividing is required.

I would ask was Peter forgiven of his blasphemy? Would he of been forgiven after Pentecost.? Who did forgive Him if not the Holy Spirit? When the restrainer was removed so was the forgiveness removed.

We may only allow for teaching by the Holy Spirit from the Word. The Word is God. From it, if it is not confirmed for me by the Holy Spirit, I will determine formyself only but not conclude until it is confiremd by the Holy Spirit.

 

[garee]

We may only allow for teaching by the Holy Spirit from the Word. The Word is God. From it, if it is not confirmed for me by the Holy Spirit, I will determine formyself only but not conclude until it is confiremd by the Holy Spirit.

With all due respect .Thanks for your time.

 

[JaumeJ]

With all due respect .Thanks for your time.

God bless you and be your Light always, in Jesus Christ, amen

 

[luigi]

Did you consider Gal 2:16 before making your determination?

Is it that Christ had to have faith in order for us to be justified, or is it that we may become justified in our faith as that which Christ had?
Which makes more sense; that Christ, the Word, the only begotten son of God had to have faith in order for us to be justified in Him, or that we through our believing in love, truth, justice, humility, as the faith Christ had in these, might also be justified?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Are you KJV only? I've heard KJV only advocates quote Galatians 2:16 from the KJV and stress, "..the faith of Jesus Christ.." Yet numerous other translations (ASV; ESV; NASB; NIV; NRSV etc..) say, "..by/through faith in Jesus Christ.."

I like the way the AMPC reads - Yet we know that a man is justified or reckoned righteous and in right standing with God not by works of the Law, but [only] through faith and [absolute] reliance on and adherence to and trust in Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

We MUST place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation in order to be saved. Jesus Christ does not place faith in Himself for us. So it's not His faith, but OUR faith.

1 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of YOUR faith—the salvation of your souls.

Your Quote "Jesus Christ does not place faith in himself" In Gal 2:16, KJV version. When the versions that you reference changed the word "OF" to "IN" it took "the faithfulness of Christ going to the cross" away from him and claimed his faith as their own. I understand men who claim to have a part in their eternal salvation selecting the revised versions to support their belief in themselves. By "salvation" being interpreted in the Greek to mean "a deliverance". There is a deliverance we receive here in this world by OUR faith in Jesus's work on the cross, but our faith in Jesus does not deliver us eternally, if so, it would be eternal deliverance by the efforts (works) of man. 1 Peter 1:9 - receiving the END (outcome) of your faith (the end result of your faith in Jesus's accomplishment on the cross, being the salvation of your souls). The KJV has a reference from 1 Peter 1:9 to Romans 6:22 - But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

 

[JaumeJ]

From the ISV : Eph 6:23 May peace and love, with faith, be with the brothers, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus, the Messiah!

Faith is a gift from God…….

It is written no man comes to theFather but by Jesus Christ…...also it is so with Jesus, the Father draws us to Him.

In faith we understand for it is something that is nto so easily explained.

When we truly receive the Gospel, we receive also the gift of faith in the Father and in the Son...….simple, it is just one more of the gifts our Blessed Father imparts to each of us.

Complicated dissertations and explications on these matters bear no witness to the reality that all is from God, amen.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Is it that Christ had to have faith in order for us to be justified, or is it that we may become justified in our faith as that which Christ had?
Which makes more sense; that Christ, the Word, the only begotten son of God had to have faith in order for us to be justified in Him, or that we through our believing in love, truth, justice, humility, as the faith Christ had in these, might also be justified?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Save, Saved, Salvation, according to Greek means "a deliverance". We are delivered (saved) here in this world by our faith in Jesus's accomplishments on the cross, and his faith (faithfulness) to go to the cross. Our faith in Christ does save (deliver) us here in this life, but not eternally.

 

[JaumeJ]

Up until the publishing of th writings of the New Testament, all the gospel and the prophecy of Jesus, Yeshua, and what His mission would be are in the Tanakh.

The Hebrew word used most frequently was yesh and yeshi. Redeemer and My Redeemer…….in reference to God. It is intersting that David whose name translates as teh Beloved is the son of Jesse, Yeshi..my Redeemer. Prophecy and the story of Jesus permeates the Old TEstament and for at least one hundered years converts to the God of Israel learned only from what is called the Tanakh today.

The New Testament helps a lot more, so together a eprson is well equi9pped to share the Gospel with others. Praise God in Jesus Christ always, amen.

 

[mailmandan]

Your Quote "Jesus Christ does not place faith in himself" In Gal 2:16, KJV version. When the versions that you reference changed the word "OF" to "IN" it took "the faithfulness of Christ going to the cross" away from him and claimed his faith as their own.

Faith in Jesus Christ does not take away the faithfulness of Christ going to the cross. (Romans 3:24-28) It's not about changing "OF" to "IN" as if "OF" is the concrete interpretation and "IN" is in error as if it changes Galatians 2:16 to mean something entirely different.

In Galatians 3:26 in the KJV, we read - For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

In Ephesians 1:15 in the KJV, we read - Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints.

In Colossians 1:4 in the KJV, we read - Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints.

In 1 Timothy 1:14 in the KJV, we read - And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

In 2 Timothy 1:13 in the KJV, we read - Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

In 2 Timothy 3:15 in the KJV, we read - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[Pisteuo]

I see a lot of people claiming faith in Christ for their salvation; but what does having faith in Christ really mean?

Hi Luigi ,

Are you asking what Faith the noun is , pistis ? Or are you referring to the verb pisteuo ? Are you asking what Faith is , or how it's specifically applied to have Faith in Christ ?

 

[luigi]

Save, Saved, Salvation, according to Greek means "a deliverance". We are delivered (saved) here in this world by our faith in Jesus's accomplishments on the cross, and his faith (faithfulness) to go to the cross. Our faith in Christ does save (deliver) us here in this life, but not eternally.

Christ died on the cross to pay for our sins, so that those of us who wanted could repent and change direction away from sinning toward the Lords Way (love, truth, justice, peace, etc.)
We are delivered away from death for our sins, when we believe in Christs belief (His gospel), of love, truth, justice, peace, which logically ultimately leads one away from sin.