Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

preacher4truth · Nov 1, 2018

Wait just a minute, you were on here bragging about your alleged years teaching Greek in order to bolster you and your false teaching of losing salvation.

Insert an "old" here. Your teaching? It's false, brother.

delirious · Nov 1, 2018

dcontroversal said:

I will make one post in this thread and after that good luck if you believe salvation can be lost.....

It is MORE absurd and IGNORANT to believe salvation can be lost based upon the following truths, promises and words that MUST BE REJECTED, DENIED, TWISTED or TRAMPLED UNDER FOOT......FOR salvation to be lost the following MUST be false.

a. I will NEVER leave thee nor FORSAKE THEE
b. We are SAVED to the UTTERMOST
c. WE are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH
d. IF WE believe NOT (AFTER FAITH) HE abides faithful because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
e. We are in the SON'S HAND<-NO MAN can yank us away
f. We are in the FATHER's HAND<-NO man can YANK us away
g. We are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE UNTO the DAY of REDEMPTION
h. WE are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED by the HOLY SPIRIT from ABOVE
I. THE GIFTS of GOD are IRREVOCABLE
J. SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT
k. WE are given ETERNAL LIFE <-NOT temporal based upon performance
l. OUR freely given LIFE is EVERLASTING <-NOT temporal based upon performance
m. NOTHING shall separate us from the LOVE OF GOD
n. JESUS said he will LOSE NOTHING but will RAISE IT UP THE LAST DAY
o. WHATSOEVER GOD does is EVERLASTING <- including SAVING US
p. HE that believes on the SON IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE
q. THESE things are written that YOU MAY KNOW YOU HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE
r. WE ARE JUSTIFIED ETERNALLY by the BLOOD of CHRIST dia FAITH
s. WE are Sanctified in Christ positionally and ETERNALLY <--SEE HEBREWS
t. JESUS will leave the 99 to FIND US if we walk AWAY
u. WE are chastened for disobedience NOT CAST AWAY
v. SOME have works of wood, hay and stubble yet are SAVED SO A BY FIRE
w. THE prodigal was a SON and ALIVE throughout the WHOLE PROCESS and only PERCEIVED as dead and still received as a SON
x. IF we are in Christ we are NOT CONDEMNED <-John and Romans
y. SALVATION is spoken of in ALL THREE verb tenses and a PERFECT TENSE VERB = PRESENT continuing result from a past completed action

AND ON and ON and ON and ON.........EVERY ONE of the above truths must be denied, rejected or twisted out of context to believe the drivel that salvation can be lost and this is just off the top of my head at 8 am with no coffee yet......There are NO verses IN context that teach a salvation that can be lost like a coin at the local park.....and those who peddle such are akin to a street organ player with a dancing monkey in Calcutta playing and dancing for said COIN......

It must be tragic to serve such a weak, inept god that cannot keep you saved or one that needs help to maintain that which already IS by faith..........

The op is more drivel from one who ha no real faith and or biblical hope!

All those Scriptures you just posted are conditional on one thing. You mentioned that one thing several times in the Scriptures you listed. What is that one thing. Your faith.

Lose your faith and you will perish. Eternal life only belongs to God. Scripture says in 1 John 5: 11 that this life is only in the Son.

You partake of His life through faith in Him and become part of His body. If you stop believing you no longer have eternal life because it is something only God possesses. You partake of it through faith. No faith. No life.

Eternal life doesn't become your possession when you believe as if it is something God gives you apart from Christ. You partake of Christ's life through your faith in Him! You are attached to Him. No faith. No life.

preacher4truth · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

First, and again, Jesus never stated that. This is the second instance you've misrepresented Scripture and added to the text your meaning.

Secondly, you're the only person mentioning Calvinism, I'm simply discussing your errors and the texts at hand.

Were you hoping to prey on some dummies that don't know Scripture, or are you angry that persons actually know Scripture and can defend it from your assaults?

Or both?

I'm still waiting for you to gather some commentary support for your theory.

seed_time_harvest · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

Yes,when It comes to salvation,salvation Is by Grace through faith and not about life changes although the person's spirit that has been born again of Incorruptible seed WILL seek to purify himself to match the new creation he has become.

dcontroversal · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

Wrong..........try again...

HE that BEGAN a good work of FAITH IN YOU will COMPLETE IT.....maybe your JESUS cannot finish what he started, but the JESUS of the BIBLE, the one I worship stated clearly that HE will finish what he started in me<--pertaining to faith.....

AND....if we BELIEVE NOT "after belief" HE abides FAITHFUL because HE cannot deny HIMSELF...

You guys sure worship an inept JESUS that obviously cannot keep his word by your testimony

preacher4truth · Nov 1, 2018

dcontroversal said:

I think these guys want someone, ANYONE to lose their salvation really really bad!

delirious · Nov 1, 2018

Ariel82 said:

Okay the main thing I disagree with you is mostly your use of language, but then you may not agree with my usage either.

I do agree that eternal security is for true believer only or the fourth type of soil.

However I would disagree that the Rocky soil were ever saved or born again believers.

I don't think they ever got the Holy Spirit to change their hearts of stone to hearts of flesh (can get you the Bible verse later if needed).

They may have been part of a church, maybe even pastors but they would be the people Jesus speaks about when He says "Depart from me I never knew you" after they proclaim "Lord Lord we cast out demons in your name and worked great miracles"

These are the Rocky soil....to the world they appear "Christian" but to God they are wolves devouring the Sheep and stealing from God's children and spreading demonic lies within the church. They are like Judas Iscariot who stole money meant for the poor and widows for his own selfish purposes, who sold out Jesus for money.

The Rocky ground are not believers, they are wolves.

The first kind (Satan steals the seed) are aethist or other religions that reject Jesus as savior and the third (thorns nd brairs) are secular Christain who care more about this world than God's kingdom. (double-minded adulterers is another name the Bible calls them.

You make some good points but the issue I have with you mostly is that you say the second soil did not partake of the Holy Spirit and they were not real believers.

Jesus says they were real believers and that "life sprang up" that can only happen via the Holy Spirit as we are dead in sin apart from Him.

Sketch · Nov 1, 2018

What is the basis of salvation?
Can you be saved in the here and now?

dcontroversal · Nov 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

I must be a bad deal so serve such a weak, ineffectual god that cannot keep saved, finish what he started, keep his word, come clean on his promises and loses that which he said he would not lose......king of like all those suckers that bought lottery tickets last week....they HOPE they win.....instead of the bible's hope....a confident expectation of something GUARANTEED

preacher4truth · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

Soooo...the person is the soil, then they become the seed too, then the plant?

Hmmmm.

Nope.

Try again?

What is the seed that springs up? It isn't the person. But I digress, you're trying to make a parable walk on all fours when Jesus is merely making a spiritual point, and it has nothing to do with loss of salvation.

I'll be waiting for you to gather commentary that supports your points.

dcontroversal · Nov 1, 2018

Sketch said:

The bible is clear on salvation.....it is spoken of in all three tenses....and the PERFECT/AORIST tense verbs applied = a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION

John said these things are written that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

and notice the verb tenses of the following...

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE (PAST TENSE) but according to his mercy has HE SAVED US (PAST TENSE)

Salvation/ETERNAL LIFE is current POSSESSION of all who have

a. BELIEVED the CORRECT message of salvation
b. CONFESSED said belief into the correct message of salvation

delirious · Nov 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

Stop saying I am erecting a strawman when I am not. I am just going to stop talking to you if you keep doing that.

Jesus Himself says they really believe. You are the one eisegeting. You are denying what the Scripture says because it disproves Unconditional Election and you must deny it to preserve your system.

If you look at all 3 accounts in the synoptics about the parable of the sower it says "life springs up". That only happens through genuine faith in Christ because that is the only way you can partake of His Spirit. We are all dead in sin. No life in us apart from Him.

John 15: 6 says that the branch withers when it loses its faith just like the second soil. If you don't see the parallels that is up to you. We know the branch is burned so it is only consistent to say the second soil will also perish.

So if you keep misquoting me I will just quit talking to you. It is you who are denying what the Scripture says to try and preserve your Calvinism.

delirious · Nov 1, 2018

dcontroversal said:

You are quoting Philippians 1: 6. What is the obvious assumption that you are missing? That Paul wrote that to believers in Phillipi. He is faithful and will complete His work in all who trust in Him. You must keep trusting though or He doesn't.

How do you explain the 80 verses and passages in the New Testament that say that if you don't endure in faith to the end of your life you will not be saved?

delirious · Nov 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

I will not reply to you anymore. Everything you just said was nonsense and I didn't say any of those things. You keep changing my words. You are the strawman maker. God bless.

dcontroversal · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

Context and not one states you will lose salvation......but hey....I fully expect you to ride your religion all the way to the plenteous in number group....

Hevosmies · Nov 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

This shows me you have never read any of the early church fathers' books(before Augustine), then again how could you, since calvinist church history stops at Augustine. Thats as early as it gets, the famous "pelagian controversy". Two guys both wrong debating each other, great.
If you ever want to know church history before Augustine, take a read at the ante-nicene church fathers. I dare anyone to read the actual works of the ante-nicene church fathers, and you will see they did NOT NOT NOT believe anything close to OSAS or calvinism. And before anyone says anything, I DO NOT agree with those church fathers, why? Because:

Most of those guys were close to orthodox/catholic, thought you could lose your salvation, believed in baptismal regeeration too many of them, believed in the eucharist (and not in the way its understood by baptists today).

Hevosmies · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

A “seal” in the Bible is a mark of ownership. In Revelation 13 we read about all the people who take the “mark of the beast” and everybody who takes the “mark” perishes. Why? Because they belong to the devil. It is a mark of ownership and allegiance. They are unbelievers.

How do I know this? Look at the immediate context that follows right after Revelation 13.

Revelation 14: 1, “Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.”

Why is the name written on their foreheads? And why is it on their foreheads only? The “mark of the beast” in Revelation 13 is on both foreheads and hands. Why?

Because in the Bible the forehead represents the mind/heart and what you believe. The hand represents your works/actions.

We are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. This is why you see the name in Revelation 14: 1 written only on their foreheads and no mention of hands. Who are these people in Revelation 14: 1?

They are the same group in Revelation 7: 1-4. What does it say there? To paraphrase the verses it says, “…don’t harm anything until we SEAL the servants of our God on their foreheads…” The number is the exact same of Revelation 14. 144,000. Rev 7 and 14 are the same group.

A “SEAL” is a mark of ownership in the Bible. Who does God own? People of faith. Because it is what you believe in your mind/heart. This is why it is only on their foreheads in Rev 14: 1. They have put their trust in Christ. When a person stops believing, God doesn’t own them anymore. They have abandoned Him. No more seal. His Spirit departs.

Did you notice your analogy has a hole in it?

If you take teh mark of the beast, you are DOOMED, there is no repentance out of it. Its over.
But how come if you got the seal of God (like the people you mentioned in Rev) it can be gotten rid of?

preacher4truth · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

No such thing took place my friend so now you're bearing false witness.

You made the person the life that sprung up, or the plant. You also said Jesus says they really believe by the same token, adding to the text and is his words.

I'm merely dismantling your errant teaching, bro. Since you can't handle owning all you say, I can see why you'd bow out. Again. Some of us really pay attention to what is said, and you don't really want that. Kind of coy, actually.

Also, I take it you cannot provide commentary to support you? Wonder why?

dcontroversal · Nov 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

He/she is not going to engage you again....you build straw men......hahahha--->just another "I keep myself saved" because my JESUS is too weak to keep me saved....

PennEd · Nov 1, 2018

delirious said:

I have misquoted NEITHER. You picked a translation that tries to fit your works doctrine. ALL these translations say NO ROOT. I will post Strong's Concordance as well, stating NO ROOT. But I'm glad you recognize that JESUS is the Root.

New International Version
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

English Standard Version
but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.

Berean Study Bible
But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

Berean Literal Bible
And the sun having risen, they were scorched, and through not having root, were dried up.

New American Standard Bible
"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

King James Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But when the sun came up they were scorched, and since they had no root, they withered.

International Standard Version
But when the sun came up, they were scorched. Since they did not have any roots, they dried up.

New Heart English Bible
But when the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But when the sun rose, it became hot, and because there were no roots, it dried up

New American Standard 1977
“But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Jubilee Bible 2000
and when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

King James 2000 Bible
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

American King James Version
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

American Standard Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the sun was up they were scorched: and because they had not root, they withered away.

Darby Bible Translation
but when the sun rose they were burned up, and because of not having [any] root were dried up;

English Revised Version
and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Webster's Bible Translation
And when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had not root, they withered.

Weymouth New Testament
but when the sun is risen, it is scorched by the heat, and through having no root it withers up.

World English Bible
When the sun had risen, they were scorched. Because they had no root, they withered away.

Young's Literal Translation
and the sun having risen they were scorched, and through not having root, they withered,

Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

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