A place for rapture questions
- Thread starter Wall
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Read it again. It is DEFINATELY the rapture.
Jesus invokes Noah,a pre flood dynamic (as in Noah's days) {preflood} and ends the "one taken" in "watching and waiting""
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(preflood....pretrib)
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(play it out. Most think a wicked person with the mark of the beast 'satan worshipper' is paired up with a righteous,and wicked is raptured by Jesus)..........plain weird
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
That is describing the pretrib rapture......and none of the "one taken or "the days of Noah" nor the "days of Lot" apacolyptic type settings. CAN NOT BE POST TRIB
Hint: postrib is HORRIFIC APOCOLYPTIC SETTING. Nothing in Jesus description of the one taken is anything but peacetime and prejudgement.
Jesus invokes Noah,a pre flood dynamic (as in Noah's days) {preflood} and ends the "one taken" in "watching and waiting""
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(preflood....pretrib)
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(play it out. Most think a wicked person with the mark of the beast 'satan worshipper' is paired up with a righteous,and wicked is raptured by Jesus)..........plain weird
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
That is describing the pretrib rapture......and none of the "one taken or "the days of Noah" nor the "days of Lot" apacolyptic type settings. CAN NOT BE POST TRIB
Hint: postrib is HORRIFIC APOCOLYPTIC SETTING. Nothing in Jesus description of the one taken is anything but peacetime and prejudgement.
I also believe that Matthew 25:31-34 (and its context) is a post-trib setting (note: not a Rapture context).
[same for Matthew 13:30,39,40,49-50... as well as Daniel 12:12... and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; and Luke 19:12,15,17,19 when He will deal out responsibilities: "have thou authority over 10 cities" and "[likewise] be thou also over 5 cities"... as well as ALL "Son of man cometh/shall come/coming/etc contexts; and this Matthew 24:36-51 context also--aren't they all similar?? (i.e. where are any of these people shown to be crawling out of caves all emaciated or whatever?)--these contexts are all LIVING/MORTAL people who will enter the promised and prophesied earthly MK, upon His "RETURN" to the earth (how many of these contexts describe "blood and gore" or such??)]
Matthew 24:36-42 "they knew not until" is not speaking of Noah. Also, this passage is somewhat parallel to Genesis 9:1 / Daniel 2:35 "[actively] fill/filled the [whole] earth." [mortal bodies will do that]
[same for Matthew 13:30,39,40,49-50... as well as Daniel 12:12... and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; and Luke 19:12,15,17,19 when He will deal out responsibilities: "have thou authority over 10 cities" and "[likewise] be thou also over 5 cities"... as well as ALL "Son of man cometh/shall come/coming/etc contexts; and this Matthew 24:36-51 context also--aren't they all similar?? (i.e. where are any of these people shown to be crawling out of caves all emaciated or whatever?)--these contexts are all LIVING/MORTAL people who will enter the promised and prophesied earthly MK, upon His "RETURN" to the earth (how many of these contexts describe "blood and gore" or such??)]
Matthew 24:36-42 "they knew not until" is not speaking of Noah. Also, this passage is somewhat parallel to Genesis 9:1 / Daniel 2:35 "[actively] fill/filled the [whole] earth." [mortal bodies will do that]
No. Why do you ask? lol
I agree with this quote by Gaebelein: "The battle of Armageddon comes into view for the first time in Revelation 14:20."
He doesn't "RETURN to the earth" before that.
I agree with this quote by Gaebelein: "The battle of Armageddon comes into view for the first time in Revelation 14:20."
He doesn't "RETURN to the earth" before that.
-
1
- Show all
Post-tribbers are often into prepping. (You know like the TV Show, doomsday preppers) They like to sell you all kinds of survival goodies.
The guy in the video is definately a prepper!
More proof for the pre-trib rapture:
When Saul was persecuting the Church, Jesus said to him "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou ME?"
They were persecuting Jesus because the Church is His body, and Jesus is the head.
Now, why would Jesus pour wrath on His own body? He already suffered on the cross. No need to pour wrath twice.
The seals are already wrath, because its the Lamb opening the seals and unleashing all kinds of calamities.
After praying and fasting, there is no other way to make all the scripture fit. Unless you are willing to allegorize quite a bit
The guy in the video is definately a prepper!
More proof for the pre-trib rapture:
When Saul was persecuting the Church, Jesus said to him "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou ME?"
They were persecuting Jesus because the Church is His body, and Jesus is the head.
Now, why would Jesus pour wrath on His own body? He already suffered on the cross. No need to pour wrath twice.
The seals are already wrath, because its the Lamb opening the seals and unleashing all kinds of calamities.
After praying and fasting, there is no other way to make all the scripture fit. Unless you are willing to allegorize quite a bit
-
1
- Show all
Either way it is not AFTER the flood.
You are mistaken because of context.
You have to see Jesus is answering 3 questions. So every sentence has to be sifted through that concept.
You need a post flood,post judgement,post destruction,post apocolypse deliverance.
All the examples are " PRE", not post.
Even the " one taken" examples are NOT in a judgement,,apocolyptic,destroyed earth setting. Peace and normal activities ,THEN judgement.
Jesus even made sure that point was UNDERSTOOD
Concerning mat 25, skip down to vs 41
You will see that my take on it is spot on. It is referring to the GWTJ,NOT THE SECOND COMING.
HERE IS THAT VS;
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
You are mistaken because of context.
You have to see Jesus is answering 3 questions. So every sentence has to be sifted through that concept.
You need a post flood,post judgement,post destruction,post apocolypse deliverance.
All the examples are " PRE", not post.
Even the " one taken" examples are NOT in a judgement,,apocolyptic,destroyed earth setting. Peace and normal activities ,THEN judgement.
Jesus even made sure that point was UNDERSTOOD
Concerning mat 25, skip down to vs 41
You will see that my take on it is spot on. It is referring to the GWTJ,NOT THE SECOND COMING.
HERE IS THAT VS;
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Exactly.
The bride historically was never tied to a tree and bull whipped to be made worthy.
In fact she went through baths and oils and perfumes before presented to the king ( Esther)
But ,but,but, trials do in fact purge and purify. I believe the 5 foolish virgins do face the AC. By refusing the mark,they are beheaded. I believe they are seen in heaven by Jonh as the INNUMERABLE NUMBER.
It even says the had dirty robes (washed in the blood)
But aside from that the tribulation is called "Jacob's trouble". IOW God is dealing with Jews mainly.
The bride historically was never tied to a tree and bull whipped to be made worthy.
In fact she went through baths and oils and perfumes before presented to the king ( Esther)
But ,but,but, trials do in fact purge and purify. I believe the 5 foolish virgins do face the AC. By refusing the mark,they are beheaded. I believe they are seen in heaven by Jonh as the INNUMERABLE NUMBER.
It even says the had dirty robes (washed in the blood)
But aside from that the tribulation is called "Jacob's trouble". IOW God is dealing with Jews mainly.
"the least of these My brethren" are not the ones BEING judged/separated in the "Sheep and goat" judgment of the nations [plural]. They are the ones having delivered the INVITATION [to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" / the earthly MK] DURING the trib years, per Matt24:14[26:13], Matt22:9-14 [see the SEQUENCE stated in vv.7 and then 8], Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7 re: "the MARRIAGE" itself, aorist / already taken place IN HEAVEN], etc...
Matthew 25:31-34 and context parallels parts of Matthew 13:30,39,40,49-50 (both passages refer to LIVING/MORTAL persons who are to enter the earthly MK).
Note the parallel "BLESSED" of Dan12:12, Rev19:9, Matt24:46, Matt25:31-34, Lk12:37,38,43, etc
Matthew 25:31-34 and context parallels parts of Matthew 13:30,39,40,49-50 (both passages refer to LIVING/MORTAL persons who are to enter the earthly MK).
Note the parallel "BLESSED" of Dan12:12, Rev19:9, Matt24:46, Matt25:31-34, Lk12:37,38,43, etc
2Th2:8 part b (part a is about the START of the 7-yr trib, part b is about Christ's Second Coming to the earth):
"8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [by the appearing of the coming of Him]:"
Then there's the word in Lk17, which is "G622" (distinct from the one in 1Th5:2-3 at the START of the trib [G3639 - 'destruction' which will come UPON "them" (certain ones, not ALL--SOME will come to faith within the trib years)--it is THEY who "will NOT escape" but others WILL, per Lk21:36 of the same time period]):
Lk17:29 [blb] -
"and in that day Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed [G622] all."
[quoting]
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.
"8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [by the appearing of the coming of Him]:"
Then there's the word in Lk17, which is "G622" (distinct from the one in 1Th5:2-3 at the START of the trib [G3639 - 'destruction' which will come UPON "them" (certain ones, not ALL--SOME will come to faith within the trib years)--it is THEY who "will NOT escape" but others WILL, per Lk21:36 of the same time period]):
Lk17:29 [blb] -
"and in that day Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed [G622] all."
[quoting]
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.
EDIT: "Then there's the word in Lk17, which is "G622" (distinct from the one in 1Th5:2-3 at the START of the trib [G3639 - 'destruction' which will come UPON "them" (certain ones, not ALL--SOME will come to faith within the trib years)--it is THEY who "will NOT escape [actively FLEE OUT OF]" but others WILL, per Lk21:36 of the same time period]):
Can you clarify WHICH verse you are referring to here ^ ?
At the time of His Second Coming to the earth (Matt13, for example), it is the TARES that are "removed" (if you care to use that word), but "the righteous" are not lifted off of and away from the earth, they remain and "fill [active] the whole earth"... just as in Noah's day.
[exact OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of our Rapture, by the way]
["My barn" = the earthly MK age to come]
At the time of His Second Coming to the earth (Matt13, for example), it is the TARES that are "removed" (if you care to use that word), but "the righteous" are not lifted off of and away from the earth, they remain and "fill [active] the whole earth"... just as in Noah's day.
[exact OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of our Rapture, by the way]["My barn" = the earthly MK age to come]