Speaking in tongues

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rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Some gifts are still active .Like prophets or apostles that declare the existing living, abiding will of God found in his book of prophecy, the Bible, or called the book of the law. (no philosophical theories of men)

The end of the living revelations that God has brought to rule a living world is not the end of the world. Just as in the same way the world did not begin moving until God revealed Himself with His finger as it is written as a law God spoke. Moses was moved to record the first five books thousands of years, after the beginning Genesis.

It is no different then any time period in which God did not move people to record His will. During the four hundred year silent period between the Old and new testament time did not stop. Many private revelations that came from the will of men were offered.

Many in their anxiety said; thus says the Lord, he said this or a saw a vision and created the secret books called the Apocrypha .Prophecy God's word, or tongue is not limited to the future.

The perfect law of God protects the integrity of God's lovingly commands us. He informs us not to add or subtract.... now that we have the whole or the perfect spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13.

It is how we test the spirits to see if they are of God.

Any assumed new revelations today or visions or any manner God did reveal his will in the past we can know they are not of God . The knowledge we do have of God is in respect to the perfect.


Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away1 Cornithinas 13:8-10

Need more that he has revealed? How much?



I am not trying to argue any of your facts here. it's a timing thing here for me. Like AMEN means end, but we know the end has not come yet, this means things are still active until the end is actually here. I feel the gifts not used are because

1. people don't understand them or how to utilize them
2. people ASSUME they no longer are useful or active.

But, either way someone views it, the AMEN or end has not arrived yet. Therefore, anything we see happening (especially within the New Testament concerning the power and evidence of the Holy Spirit and it's gifts to us) also applies to us right now this very moment.

And that is because the AMEN/end at the Book of Revelation's has not arrived yet.

I totally believe if God is the SAME yesterday, today, and tomorrow and onward, then His gifts to us are the same (as still functioning).

People have become too intelligent to allow their faith to be led by God. We overthink way too many things. Kind of like how Christ likened believers to little children. We must believe and accept it...not overthink it!!
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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I never heard if amen meaning end. It is usually translated as do be it. It is a term of agreement. Some Jews would think it odd to amen your own prayer.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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We've seen the speaking in tongues, but why doesnt anyone ever WRITE in tongues? Now thats what I wanna see.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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I do not believe in the concept of "replacement theology" other than replacing the theology that comes from the word of God in exchange for the philosophies of men as oral traditions...... called blasphemy .

God's theology as his perfect law has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh of men.( Jew or Gentile male nor female) The time of reformation has come. The fig tree is cut off the previous time period as a parable using their flesh as a shadow had come to the end. a great tribulation for the unbelieving Jew (no faith)

The bride of Christ made up of new creatures began with Abel . I don't think he was called a Jew as if God was a man as us to begin with and there was a fleshly Jewish mediator set between God and man as a infallible umpire.

Supernatural God who remains without mother or father, beginning of Spirit life or end is not Jewish nor Gentile, male nor female .

God will not share his glory with the flesh of men. Even the Son of man, Jesus said His own flesh ...it profits for nothing, zip, nada

This passage from 1 Corinthians 1 came to mind and is from one of my many many Bible study tools:
18 For the story and message of the Cross
is sheer absurdity
and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition,
but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.
19 For it is written, “I will baffle and render useless and destroy
the learning of the learned and
the philosophy of the philosophers and
the cleverness of the clever and
the discernment of the discerning;
I will frustrate and nullify [them] and bring [them] to nothing.” (Isaiah 29:14)
***What is the story and message of the Cross?
What are the ways people have tried to prove it wrong?
What do the Muslims think about Jesus Christ and what happened at the Cross?
What are the evidences that what the Bible says happened at the Cross and the Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ afterwards.

20 Where is the wise man (the philosopher)?
Where is the scribe (the scholar)?
Where is the investigator (the logician, the debater) of this present time and age?
Has not God shown up the nonsense and the folly of this World's wisdom?
21 For when the World with all its Earthly wisdom
failed to perceive and recognize and know God by means of its own philosophy,
God in His wisdom was pleased through the foolishness of preaching
to save those who believed
(who clung to and trusted in and relied on Him).
***How would you explain those 2 verses to a class of teens?

22 For while Jews [demandingly] ask for signs and miracles
and Greeks pursue philosophy and wisdom,
23 we preach Christ (The Messiah) crucified,
[preaching which] to the Jews is a scandal
and an offensive stumbling block [that springs a snare or trap],
and to the Gentiles it is absurd and utterly unphilosophical nonsense.
24 But to those who are called, whether Jew or Greek (Gentile),
Christ [is] the Power of God and the Wisdom of God.
25 [This is] because
the foolish thing [that has its source in] God is wiser than men,
and the weak thing [that springs] from God is stronger than men.
***Who were the Jews in the Old Testament?
What signs and miracles did they see?
What kind of people were many of the ancient Greeks?
What does the above Scripture passage mean?


26 For [simply] consider your own call, brothers [and sisters];
not many [of you were considered to be] wise according to human estimates and standards,
not many influential and powerful, not many of high and noble birth.
27 For God selected (deliberately chose)
what in the World is foolish
to put the wise to shame,
and what the World calls weak
to put the strong to shame.
28 And God also selected (deliberately chose)
what in the World is lowborn and insignificant and branded
and treated with contempt, even the things that are nothing,
that He might depose and bring to nothing the things that are,
29 so that no mortal man
should [have pretense for glorying and] boast in the presence of God.
30 But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus,
Whom God made our Wisdom from God,
[revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of Salvation previously hidden,
manifesting itself as]
our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and
our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and
our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].
31 So then, as it is written, “Let him who boasts and proudly rejoices
and glories, boast and proudly rejoice and glory in The Lord.”
***List the facts about God the Father and the facts about His adopted children.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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We've seen the speaking in tongues, but why doesnt anyone ever WRITE in tongues? Now thats what I wanna see.

No I have met no one who has written in tongues.
I found myself singing in tongues back in 1989 outside the Oaklawn Race Track in Little Rock, Arkansas. I was waiting for people to come out and give them Gospel tracts. I was alone. The members of the family who had done such ministry for 13 years were at other exits of the track. I had started speaking in tongues in January 1975. On a Sunday afternoon in April 1988, I heard some similar words in an altar call for prayer warriors for the upcoming March for Jesus in Washington DC in the following Saturday. (I was to play my flute in the orchestra near where the Christian leaders and speakers were to sit during the program at the end of the march.) I had passed up churches during the 4 mile walk to get to the church of the ad in the Yellow Pages that the Holy Spirit had me look at the Saturday night before. The lady who spoke the words that I had spoken was surprised when I told her. That is an evidence of God's Providence.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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In charismatic churches, I have only spoken the words that God gave me when I was on my bed when the time in the service was to do such. Sometimes that sounded like classical music even, but other times most of the words around me were like the preacher or the church leader encouraging such. Many will do almost anything to be accepted, respected, and loved; I believe that much of the public speaking in tongues are for those reasons. I believe what the Apostle Paul wrote about this matter.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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Okay then, so we are in agreement that God is able to move men to speak without writing it down, or even adding it to the Bible.

So you should not accuse those who prophesy of adding to the Bible or to the book of Revelation.

And you should also recognize that the book of Revelation predicts two witnesses that would prophesy. I would think any eschatology would put the fulfillment of those events at a point in time after the final 'Amen' in the book of Revleation.

But there have been many many false prophesies given by famous Christian leaders, like the one said several times by the president of TBN that God had New Orleans ruined in order for the Christians to make it a Christian city. What happened, after the storm, the prostitutes and the gambling places were the first to be reestablished. According to the Kansas School of Prophets, only 60% fulfillment is ok with God. But God changes not; 100% is still required and the manifestation of the Fruit of the Spirit in the modern day prophet's life. No modern day prophecy will go against any of the commandments in God's Word. But many of the prophecies I have read or heard were more psychological and not Scripture like. Many modern day prophecies have been used for manipulation by Christian leaders and they weren't related to the Great Commission. We need to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and increasing learing the Word in order discern such. And many of those leaders favoring the unBiblical prophesies usually add or don't teach God's Word in their sermons and have subtracted from the true Christian Salvation Gospel that they present in "the sinner's prayer" that they use. Those are just facts.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
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113
Many modern day prophecies have been used for manipulation by Christian leaders and they weren't related to the Great Commission.
I just wanted to point out that there is more to the Bible than the great commission.
 
Oct 24, 2018
473
87
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Some gifts are still active .Like prophets or apostles that declare the existing living, abiding will of God found in his book of prophecy, the Bible, or called the book of the law. (no philosophical theories of men)

The end of the living revelations that God has brought to rule a living world is not the end of the world. Just as in the same way the world did not begin moving until God revealed Himself with His finger as it is written as a law God spoke. Moses was moved to record the first five books thousands of years, after the beginning Genesis.

It is no different then any time period in which God did not move people to record His will. During the four hundred year silent period between the Old and new testament time did not stop. Many private revelations that came from the will of men were offered.

Many in their anxiety said; thus says the Lord, he said this or a saw a vision and created the secret books called the Apocrypha .Prophecy God's word, or tongue is not limited to the future.

The perfect law of God protects the integrity of God's lovingly commands us. He informs us not to add or subtract.... now that we have the whole or the perfect spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13.

It is how we test the spirits to see if they are of God.

Any assumed new revelations today or visions or any manner God did reveal his will in the past we can know they are not of God . The knowledge we do have of God is in respect to the perfect.


Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away1 Cornithinas 13:8-10

Need more that he has revealed? How much?

No doctrine should be based one Bible passage or verse. I have experienced all of the spiritual gifts mentioned in the New Testament.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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I just wanted to point out that there is more to the Bible than the great commission.
But God-pleasing prophecies and interpreted tongue speaking will have nothing but Bible truths in it. The most important part of the Great Commission is for proper teaching about God's wonderful truths, wisdom, and hope to be done. It doesn't mention even soul-winning or tithing. The New Testament is full of unselfish friendship evangelism and generosity of true Christians instead of the two popular preaching topics. And where is Philippians 2:10 and Ephesians 4:11-16 happening? I would move there immediately. Where is Christ-likeness? I am 71-years-old and have witnessed very little of such.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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No doctrine should be based one Bible passage or verse. I have experienced all of the spiritual gifts mentioned in the New Testament.

So then you have received a new revelation as inspired from God as a voice coming from heaven ?Can we add it to the Bible .Or is it private as the Catholics teach? They have thousands upon thousands?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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But there have been many many false prophesies given by famous Christian leaders, like the one said several times by the president of TBN that God had New Orleans ruined in order for the Christians to make it a Christian city. What happened, after the storm, the prostitutes and the gambling places were the first to be reestablished. According to the Kansas School of Prophets, only 60% fulfillment is ok with God. But God changes not; 100% is still required and the manifestation of the Fruit of the Spirit in the modern day prophet's life. No modern day prophecy will go against any of the commandments in God's Word. But many of the prophecies I have read or heard were more psychological and not Scripture like. Many modern day prophecies have been used for manipulation by Christian leaders and they weren't related to the Great Commission. We need to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and increasing learing the Word in order discern such. And many of those leaders favoring the unBiblical prophesies usually add or don't teach God's Word in their sermons and have subtracted from the true Christian Salvation Gospel that they present in "the sinner's prayer" that they use. Those are just facts.
False prophecies as thus says the Lord when the Lord has not spoken or wrong conclusions based on the calculation of what the person said?

If a person says something and it turn out true is he speaking the prophecies of God? Is Nostradamus a prophet of God
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I never heard if amen meaning end. It is usually translated as do be it. It is a term of agreement. Some Jews would think it odd to amen your own prayer.

I would agree it mean more "so be it". Which would be in rereference not to add and subtract to the book of prophecy the Bible.

It some a liitle odd that people would make a statement "so be it" if they do not add something like if it is the will of God?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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***What is the story and message of the Cross?
What are the ways people have tried to prove it wrong?
What do the Muslims think about Jesus Christ and what happened at the Cross?
What are the evidences that what the Bible says happened at the Cross and the Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ afterwards.
The Muslims like the unbelieving Jew that refuses to hear prophecy as that which is limited to the book of Prophecy our one source of faith . They both would substract the new testament from the perfect and add the oral traditions of their fathers called a "law of the fathers" . Its why they have hatred for the Jew and the gentile believers as Christians seeing they walk by sight as the things seen the temporal, flesh . Both claiming Abraham as their father after the flesh as the temporal thing seen and not our father in heaven not seen the faith principle. In doing they violate the warning not to add or subtract from the whole.

I would think in both cases the warning to call no man a on earth father would be made to no effect according to the law of their fathers, as oral traditions of men I say that because it is impossible to serve two kinds of teaching masters, the things of men seen and those of eternal God not seen.

Peter is seen blaspheming the Son of man Jesus (forgivable) by trusting the things of men as seen as oral traditions of the father after philosophies of men rather than the things of God not seen the faith principle. Today because the Son of man is not here on earth that kind of blasphemy is not forgivable.

There must be a separation between the "things that be of God" the eternal not seen , and "those that be of men" the temporal seen.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.mathew 16:22-23

The MO for the antichrists that were there.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Maybe garee could demonstrate for us. :)

Garee struggles with writing English. I do not know how to write in other languages . As of German descent (57 varieties) I know a few words in German, Spanish and Korean . But would not be the one to transliterate from one tongue to another?

We would have to go to the old testament as the foundation of that doctrine found in Isiah 28 seeing it represent those who refuse to hear prophecy even in their own Hebrew tongue as a understandable language. Like those in Jerimiah 44 that refused to hear the word of God through the prophet Jerimiah . They said no we will not hear the word of God , but we will certainly do whatsoever our own mouths as a Hebrew tongue decides to believe as oral tradition of the fathers.... that do make the word of God without effect..

Note ….(purple in parenthesis) my offering, or private interpretation as a personal commentary .

For with stammering (mocking ) lips and another tongue(languages other than Hebrew ) will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward (,Indicating they are under the fiery Judgment of God) and be broken, and snared, and taken. 14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:11-14

Tongues is sign against those who refused to hear prophecy in any language.

When God put his words on the tongue of Peter the Holy interpreted his prophecy in all the languages or tongues of nations that were there.

He did not make a noise and say go find a private interpretation as if we were to trust the witness of men and call that a personal relationship as two walking to together in a agreement . No sign gifts.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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So then you have received a new revelation as inspired from God as a voice coming from heaven ?Can we add it to the Bible .Or is it private as the Catholics teach? They have thousands upon thousands?

What? And no prophecy in the Bible is for private interpretation, meaning opinions. Those are facts and some of course are yet to be fulfilled. True Christians will not rely on opinions by religions, denominations, and preachers. They should be discerning all that they hear and read through the filter in relation to what they know of the Bible. Do a word search of the word "opinion" in the Bible. You will be shocked. 3 times in Job 32 when one of his adversaries rebukes him. In USA, we are overwhelmed with opinions everywhere. I have shared the severe warnings with many about adding or subtracting from God's Word. But most sermons and Bible study books add and many "sinner's prayer"s of easy believism and Grace only preachers subtract from the truths in Romans 3-10. We should be focusing on learning more and more the facts in the Bible so we can know what is true and false in the news, in sermons, in radio and tv programs, and in the Internet, and in other books.

I only have received new understandings of God's wonderful truths and wisdom when I ETRSF Scripture with Holy Spirit guidance.
***God said,

“So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth:

it shall not return unto Me void,

but it shall accomplish that which I please,

and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” [Isaiah 55:11]

And good Bible education is rare in most Christian churches.

2 Timothy 2:15

“Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God,

a workman [or workwoman] who does not need to be ashamed,

rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

Isaiah 28:9-10

“Whom shall He teach knowledge?

And whom shall He make to understand doctrine?

They who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;

line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”

http://livingforjude20to25.wixsite.com/for-bible-study

http://www.bibleloverbill.simplesite.com
 
Oct 24, 2018
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False prophecies as thus says the Lord when the Lord has not spoken or wrong conclusions based on the calculation of what the person said?

If a person says something and it turn out true is he speaking the prophecies of God? Is Nostradamus a prophet of God

You sure twist what I state. And make wrong assumptions.

All religions (even some of the cults like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and small churches that are led by an arrogant and dictator leader) and self-professing modern prophets do say and write a lot of truth. They have to believe and live enough of God's truths in order to be successful. But again, I wrote that God has not changed the 100% fulfillment rule and the manifestation of the Fruit of the Spirit for determining those truely called by God to do such leadership and teaching. The School of the Prophets in Kansas City is wrong. But the sign gifts and new understandings as 1 Corinthians 14 indicates have not ceased yet. But the false prophecies and spiritual enemy done signs and wonders are preparing for many to be fooled as Revelation indicates during the World-wide Tribulation. It even says somewhere that even some of the elect will be deceived. But God still does miraculous healings now. And there are still many who receive visions and the gift of tongues from Him, including many Muslims who have converted to Christianity even though in Muslim countries they will be sought out to be killed. We are still so spoiled in the USA with religious freedom and so many different kinds of churches. But in regards to the latter, the countries with only 2 or a few more kinds of churches like Pakistan, don't have the confusion in choosing which church to attend. Paul said that we all "see through a glass darkly" meaning no one knows all of the wonderful truths of God. Let us do and encourage others just to get back to the basics of true Christianity and stop doing fruitless arguing. Discussions where all just want to learn more is the best way to go forth for Christian Sanctification. USA Churches should be using the religious freedom to have Bible discussion groups every day and night. Most don't retain much if any from sermons or seminar lectures. And try the logical indenting of Scripture I mentioned in the previous message I sent. God bless you and your family.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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what were you talking about? first, you said " No, there was non-group before 1901 which taught that. in context to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That teaching was done in the Word of God and recorded in Acts. In addition, the word "charisms" and the early church fathers taught of this to be associated with the baptism of the Holy Spirit or Spirit empowerment. it was you said this was not taught before 1901 you sir are incorrect.

Joel 2 which Peter quoted in Acts

The Gospel of John chapter 1
mark 16
Luke 24:49
Acts 1: We see this happen in the book Acts many times (please read all Acts)

all said and done and taught before 1901. If the Word of god is not enough for you then how about the early church father's?

you will need to learn some Greek & Latin to help you understand the teaching they were given in context to the Holy Spirit.

Water Baptism and Spirit Baptism in the Church Fathers


Tertullian
Polycarp
Hermas
Irenaeus
Origen
I Clemens
Justin

all and many more taught the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or Holy Spirit empowerment and all before thr 1900's
I will leave you with some of t my ref:

References

Adam, A., 1970, Lehrbuch der Dogmengeschichte: I. Die Zeit der Alten Kirche, Gütersloher Verlagshaus Mohn, Gütersloh. [ Links ]

Sorry long taking for answer.
At First, I said nothing against the baptism of the Holy Spirit itself.
I said before 1901 you find no teaching in the postapostolic Time and even not in the NT writing to the churches. That the speaking in tongues was given as sign for every believer who got the Holy Spirit.
Speaking in tongues you can find in the eatly church, but it has stopped. Augustine asked once his listeners how they could now know that they received the Holy Spirit, because the speaking in tongues has stoppen in bis Time and was only given in the former Time.
There is no Proof from the churchfathers you mentioned that the speaking in tongues was given to every believer as it is reportet in Acts 2, 10, 8 ore 19. But many Cults like the montanism came up, to whom later also Terrtullian belongs.
Later during the Reformation Time Non of the Founders taught in their churches that the receive the Holy Spirit and as sign for that the Gift of speaking in tongues.
But many movements and Cults came up who emphazise prophecies, like the " small prophets" in France, where even Kindergarten age Kids spoke prophetic in Sleep. This ,movement spread then in Europe and went over in the movement of the "inspired" which claimes their revealings from the Holy Spirit are equal with the bible. In the radical wing of pietism they had also prophetic gifts and speaking in tongues which influenced the holiness movement. But even there it was not taught that speaking in tongues is the Proof that one received the Holy Spirit.
Along with Cults like the Irvingians and Mormons which emphazise also prophecies and speaking in tongues. I do not find any Proof for the pentecostal doctrine: Who receives the Holy Spirit receives as proof for tha also the Gift of speaking in tongues.

To Add, in Mission situation God often uses extraordinal ways and methods to reach the nonbelievers. ( Dreams, Vision, healings, speaking in tongues)
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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that is a false narrative there is no doctrine of a second Baptism but One of water and of the Holy Spirit which The Lord Jesus is the one who does it. Water baptism is that of repentance also known as John's baptism Paul met men in the book of Acts chapter 19: 1-7

1. And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
So when Somebody receives the Holy Spirit according your view? In the Water baptism? when someone " takes Jesus in bis heart"?
You are right, there is only one baptism with the Holy Spirit.