Do you believe in this?
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This is absurd and you keep saying it! I was saved in Arminian Churches. I know I was saved. I know God never left me ever, during those 15 years. I was told over and over, if I sinned, I would lose my salvation, but I did sin, and just confessed it, and God forgave me. I did not have to be resaved after that.
I never even learned the phrase "eternal security" till I had spent 10 years in churches who believed that. So, 25 years, I never heard the term or phrase. I never once lost my salvation, because I didn't add "eternal security" to faith. I just was saved!
"Eternal security" or "perseverance of the saints" are just terms to describe what has happened and continues to happen. You don't need to know the words, to be saved. You just need to believe and have faith in Jesus. I know EG believes that, too.
He has not added belief in eternal security to his soteriology. He is just stating what he has experienced to be true, and that God is the one holding onto him, and keeping him.
The fact is, God saves us. He gives us the ability to believe. He keeps or justifies us, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is totally of God.
You are the one who is totally mixed up, and calling out people and putting words in their mouths.
So, for the record - God saves and keeps me. He has given me the revelation and knowledge of who he is, that I might believe and follow him the rest of my life. And he will never leave or forsake me, because of his love, mercy and grace!
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If A was saved in Jan 1st 2000 , then since that time A will never be blotted from the book of life , and the second death will never hurt A -----> always saved.
Rev3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death
If A still could be lost , from that date , so god surely would never let A stay a little bit longer , because the devils can harm A at any time they will.
Let’s see:
Rev9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
1Cor15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
There shall be the period of time between the fifth trumpet and the last (seventh) trumpet , which is the very dangerous /terrible of time for the saveds according to that thought .
So the question is : what is the reason God shall let the devils free in the fifth trumpet ?.
Rev3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death
If A still could be lost , from that date , so god surely would never let A stay a little bit longer , because the devils can harm A at any time they will.
Let’s see:
Rev9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
1Cor15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
There shall be the period of time between the fifth trumpet and the last (seventh) trumpet , which is the very dangerous /terrible of time for the saveds according to that thought .
So the question is : what is the reason God shall let the devils free in the fifth trumpet ?.
Yiikes!@legalism. The law has become an example of what sin is to those of us who are in Christ, a mere shadow of the spiritual but not the actual.
Gal 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Can't fall from grace if you didn't have it.
Gal 3:2-5 "This only would I ask of you. received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith. Are ye so foolish having begun by the Spirit are ye now perfected by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain, if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law or by he hearing with faith?"
Interesting how verse 4 asks, Have ye suffered so many things in vain, if it be yet in vain, when in context: their suffering is in vain from going by the works of the law and being perfected in the flesh verses going by faith. A poignant question when doing works rather than having faith; might make their past suffering to be in vain. Remember that without faith it is impossible to please the Lord.
Faith is more than the Lord writing his word upon the tables of our hearts and minds; it is also a reflection of our fellowship with the Lord's presence, as the blood of Jesus leads us to a confidence that is free from guilt. It is more precious than gold to the Lord, who desires for us to grow so so much, that he tries our faith to produce perseverance, often making himself to be the God of the last minute, to us.
I do think that its better to believe in OSAS, than it is to believe in saved today lost tomorrow and then saved the day after that!
Gal 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Can't fall from grace if you didn't have it.
Gal 3:2-5 "This only would I ask of you. received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith. Are ye so foolish having begun by the Spirit are ye now perfected by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain, if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law or by he hearing with faith?"
Interesting how verse 4 asks, Have ye suffered so many things in vain, if it be yet in vain, when in context: their suffering is in vain from going by the works of the law and being perfected in the flesh verses going by faith. A poignant question when doing works rather than having faith; might make their past suffering to be in vain. Remember that without faith it is impossible to please the Lord.
Faith is more than the Lord writing his word upon the tables of our hearts and minds; it is also a reflection of our fellowship with the Lord's presence, as the blood of Jesus leads us to a confidence that is free from guilt. It is more precious than gold to the Lord, who desires for us to grow so so much, that he tries our faith to produce perseverance, often making himself to be the God of the last minute, to us.
I do think that its better to believe in OSAS, than it is to believe in saved today lost tomorrow and then saved the day after that!
Matthew 24:24
CLV(i) 24 For roused shall be false christs and false prophets, and they shall be giving great signs and miracles, so as to deceive, if possible, even the chosen."
No, this scripture is clear these false prophets and christ's are trying to deceive ((if possible)). And then Yeshua adds, even the chosen.
So the chosen and all others are in the same group here. First off, NO ONE should be deceived (sinner or saved)...but if it is possible to be deceived, even the chosen fall into the same category. Kind of like raining on the just and unjust equally...
I believe in it because in Ecclesiastes 3:14 it says, "Whatever God does it will be forever"... So in saying that once you are saved it is forever. This is a fact, whatever is done in Christ is irreversible it cannot be undone once you are saved you are saved forever because your salvation has as its basis the very nature and person of God himself.
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Hey! Tia... PTL!
By that logic, the OT would never have been replaced with the NT. It is true that Salvation is made to be forever, but it is not forced upon us. The only requirement of the New Covenant is to believe in Jesus, our God, King and Savior unto the end and to love one another. We maintain our faith by putting God's word into our mind so that the Holy Spirit can write the Lord's commandments onto the tablets of our hearts and minds; which is what makes the New Covenant so much more powerful than the Old Covenant, ie... based upon better promises and given with an oath. The Holy Spirit makes the scriptures to be Jesus to us, Spirit to spirit and we learn of him. This fellowship with Jesus and having the Lord's commandments written into our hearts and minds strengthens our faith, giving us the power to walk in obedience to the Spirit while Jesus manifests himself to us; whereas living in sin, feeling guilty before the Lord even though forgiven, and neglecting the scripture with its power for growth and renewal, hardens one's heart making it harder and harder to repent and stave off being overcome and allowing their faith to fall away. That's why we are commanded by the Spirit in 1 Jn 5 "If any man see his brother sin a sin that is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not shall he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
By that logic, the OT would never have been replaced with the NT. It is true that Salvation is made to be forever, but it is not forced upon us. The only requirement of the New Covenant is to believe in Jesus, our God, King and Savior unto the end and to love one another. We maintain our faith by putting God's word into our mind so that the Holy Spirit can write the Lord's commandments onto the tablets of our hearts and minds; which is what makes the New Covenant so much more powerful than the Old Covenant, ie... based upon better promises and given with an oath. The Holy Spirit makes the scriptures to be Jesus to us, Spirit to spirit and we learn of him. This fellowship with Jesus and having the Lord's commandments written into our hearts and minds strengthens our faith, giving us the power to walk in obedience to the Spirit while Jesus manifests himself to us; whereas living in sin, feeling guilty before the Lord even though forgiven, and neglecting the scripture with its power for growth and renewal, hardens one's heart making it harder and harder to repent and stave off being overcome and allowing their faith to fall away. That's why we are commanded by the Spirit in 1 Jn 5 "If any man see his brother sin a sin that is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not shall he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
You do know throughout scripture it claims that our God has changed His mind on several issues. From Him repenting after killing humanity (His anger ceased) to changing what happened (like a loved one died and He then healed them due to their faith), our God has changed His actions, mind, what He had set forth MULTIPLE TIMES.
So, your scripture reference, although 100% accurate, should come with an asterisk beside it.
And no one is claiming God changes His viewpoint towards anyone's salvation, the argument is that someone can find God, accept Him, and later on walk away from Him. It's this condition that I believe this person therefore IS NOT SAVED!!
And of course, the argument can be said they actually never were saved to begin with. But, if they repented and gave their life to God for any moment at all, God grants that want and desire. So, they are saved in that moment. But it's when they WALK AWAY from following God that I am discussing here.
If you walk away from a boyfriend/girlfriend in a relationship, that typically means the relationship is OVER. The same must apply even with God. Because like God, the boyfriend/girlfriend you walked away from, still wants to be with you. BUT, you walked away...so the relationship is OVER...just like it should apply with God. You walk away from God, then you are NO LONGER SAVED!!
E
He misses the point.
As you said, When you were saved, You knew when you sinned you did not have to be re-saved, You did not fear losing salvation, as your faith was in Christ and him alone, I am sure you knew you had eternal life. And you had an abba father not a spirit of fear.
This is all I was saying..
People who have faith KNOW they have these things, they do not have to think of eternal security or OSAS to know it. they just know it, Because God promised it.
Its not a docrinal issue, it is an issue of can God be trusted or not.
As you said, When you were saved, You knew when you sinned you did not have to be re-saved, You did not fear losing salvation, as your faith was in Christ and him alone, I am sure you knew you had eternal life. And you had an abba father not a spirit of fear.
This is all I was saying..
People who have faith KNOW they have these things, they do not have to think of eternal security or OSAS to know it. they just know it, Because God promised it.
Its not a docrinal issue, it is an issue of can God be trusted or not.
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E
Like Gods promise to abraham, Salvation is not a do this or else covenant. In fact Scriture says Abraham believed, and because of this one time faith, God accredited to him righteousness. IE, God said he would do this, but he needed abraham to trust him, otherwise, the covenant was useless.
God told abraham, I will, He did not say if you do this I will. And he has never broken his promise concerning the covenant of abraham, No matter how sinful Israel got. he still is keeping promise even today.
Salvation is the same, God did not say if you hold up this part of the bargon I will save you, If you do not hold up your part I will not. He said I Come so that you may have life, If you trust me, I will give you that life, and that life will be eternal.
You can;t walk away from God, nor would anyone who ever was truly saved desire to.
and again, To say a person who walked away and saved lost it, Read 1 John, He said they were never saved period.. We shoud stick with the word.
God told abraham, I will, He did not say if you do this I will. And he has never broken his promise concerning the covenant of abraham, No matter how sinful Israel got. he still is keeping promise even today.
Salvation is the same, God did not say if you hold up this part of the bargon I will save you, If you do not hold up your part I will not. He said I Come so that you may have life, If you trust me, I will give you that life, and that life will be eternal.
You can;t walk away from God, nor would anyone who ever was truly saved desire to.
and again, To say a person who walked away and saved lost it, Read 1 John, He said they were never saved period.. We shoud stick with the word.