Giving money to church

[Adam77]

Circumcision predates the Law too. Are you going to argue for that as well?

This is true.
Circumcision was supposed to be a sign that showed that Abraham's descendants maintained their bond with God.

 

[Adam77]

Giving is important and one with a promise, the reason why is simple economics. Pastors and ministry staff are worthy of their wages, and even some worthy of double honor. Him that learns should share all good things with him that teaches which would include money along with other things such a success reports.
Also buildings property tax, untilities, insurance, and many numerous other utilitarian purposes. Then there is missions, these people need support to go into the horrible places they go to take the gospel.
Church attendance is required forsake not the gathering of yourselves together.
You have to get with God as to what his expectations of you is, however the tithe is an idea that predates the law. Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, so it's a good fundamental place to attain to.

Ok, I know exactly what you're saying, but please allow me to respond directly.

Talking in pseudo old-English with words the wrong way round and awkward sentence structure doesn't create an emotional response, at least not in me.

Instead it makes me think
"Why is this person not just talking straight?".

I don't mean for this to come across as rude, abrupt, or personal (and I apologise sincerely if it does), but this is something I have come across before.
Not on here but in real life.

Again, I've outlined my attitude to funding the Church in my original post.
I feel that my attitude is pragmatic and fair.

The issue isn't giving.
The issue is what the money is going to be used for and if this is in alignment with why you're giving, and whether being chased to give is acceptable.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Be glad you don't go to the Baptist church. You get a box of donation envelops every month that supports everything under the sun.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Circumcision predates the Law too. Are you going to argue for that as well?

Of all that I said you lock onto one statement, and then convoluted the whole post based on it.
So let me be absolutely clear (if that's possible).
So I thought it necessary to urge the brethren that they would go on ahead to you and arrange beforehand your previously promised bountiful gift, so that the same would be ready as a bountiful gift and not affected by covetousness. Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed; as it is written, " He scattered abroad, He gave to the poor , His righteousness endures forever ." Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness;
2 Corinthians 9:5‭-‬10
So where does this say that a tithe is required? It don't, and neither did I!
I said the tithe is a good fundamental level to attain to; as in a personal goal. I guess to be more clear that would be for the average working and middle class Western culture Christian.
The reason I say it is a good level to attain to is because while it's not required any longer; it was and was a number Given by God himself. So if he gave that number in the law which we are no longer under it's likely that number is a good metering rod for the person with a goal to be a giver.
If you have no goal to be a giver that's none of my business, it's between you and God. You do as God directs you. My personal conviction which is what I shared is not a mandate for anyone. I simply shared my personal conviction on the matter hoping it may help shedd some light on the situation.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Be glad you don't go to the Baptist church. You get a box of donation envelops every month that supports everything under the sun.

I go to a Baptist Church and that is not at all what happens. They simply pass a plate at the end of the service.

 

[Locutus]

I used to attend a Rasta Church - they simply pass the joint at the beginning of the service.

 

[Adam77]

Ok so here's a point for discussion.

In my church it is said that tithing is still required and Malachi is often referred to for justification.

Any of you fine people wish to clarify God's word?

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

It is absolutely NOT TRUE that you'll lose your salvation if you don't give to the church..

Not by not giving, but disobedience in one area generally speaks to disobedience in other areas as well. It is all a part of the works structure. One maintains their salvation through manifestations of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues on a regular basis. No tongues--no Spirit fullness. What keeps a Pentecostalist filled with the Spirit? Obedience to the by-laws of the church for one thing--and financial support is certainly incorporated in the laws of the church.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Ok, I know exactly what you're saying, but please allow me to respond directly.

Talking in pseudo old-English with words the wrong way round and awkward sentence structure doesn't create an emotional response, at least not in me.

Instead it makes me think
"Why is this person not just talking straight?".

I don't mean for this to come across as rude, abrupt, or personal (and I apologise sincerely if it does), but this is something I have come across before.
Not on here but in real life.

Again, I've outlined my attitude to funding the Church in my original post.
I feel that my attitude is pragmatic and fair.

The issue isn't giving.
The issue is what the money is going to be used for and if this is in alignment with why you're giving, and whether being chased to give is acceptable.

Sorry that you found my sentence structures akward. I was in a very boring meeting, and giving divided attention.
However, I never attempt to illicit an emotional response. (We can discuss that on another thread).
No it's not acceptable to attempt to compel a person to give. Simple enough.
There are lots of good and compelling reasons to be a giver. One is that giving comes with a promise.

So I thought it necessary to urge the brethren that they would go on ahead to you and arrange beforehand your previously promised bountiful gift, so that the same would be ready as a bountiful gift and not affected by covetousness. Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed; as it is written, " He scattered abroad, He gave to the poor , His righteousness endures forever ." Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness;
2 Corinthians 9:5‭-‬10

Don't know about you but an increased harvest of righteousness is something I want, and need in my life.

 

[rlm68]

If I choose to go on a scheduled pattern of Sunday - Wednesday church services, I feel it is my duty to support that congregation by tithing/offering. But if I do not attend church services at all, I do not feel I am responsible to give to any particular church.

 

[Adam77]

If I choose to go on a scheduled pattern of Sunday - Wednesday church services, I feel it is my duty to support that congregation by tithing/offering. But if I do not attend church services at all, I do not feel I am responsible to give to any particular church.

That's fair enough but there are three basic things that are being brought into all of this and being mixed up with what I actually asked.

1. Giving to church generally
2. If giving is still required in the New Testament.
3. Being chased or peer pressured to give, while running a new small business where cash is so important, and also seeing money not being used to help the needy outside the church but to fund the jet set lifestyle of pastor(s) and the in-crew.

It's number 3 that I'm asking about.

 

[tourist]

It appears that the main focus of the church you are attending is money centered. Of course, money should be contributed for the upkeep and various salaries if any but that should not be pounded into the congregation each week. Also, no church member should be pressured to donate, especially beyond what is actually necessary to support programs they may not even agree with. Also, all donations should be within the budget of each member. My counsel is to leave this church and find a more suitable place to worship the Lord and fellowship with other like-minded Christians.

 

[tourist]

I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

Yep, hold off a bit and they'll start throwing heaven at you.

...yeah, and after that they start with the fire and brimstone.

 

[tourist]

It is absolutely NOT TRUE that you'll lose your salvation if you don't give to the church..

I believe that he was just being a tad sarcastic.

 

[rlm68]

That's fair enough but there are three basic things that are being brought into all of this and being mixed up with what I actually asked.

1. Giving to church generally
2. If giving is still required in the New Testament.
3. Being chased or peer pressured to give, while running a new small business where cash is so important, and also seeing money not being used to help the needy outside the church but to fund the jet set lifestyle of pastor(s) and the in-crew.

It's number 3 that I'm asking about.

1. if I attend I give

2. Throughout the entire Bible we see examples in both Testament's of giving...so if you attend today...you should give

3. i would not sit under a pastor who does not do as he claims...period!! a true pastor does not lie or steal...a wolf in sheep's clothing does that. And, I would not give to a church knowing the pastor is a wolf in sheep's clothing!!

 

[Dino246]

Of all that I said you lock onto one statement, and then convoluted the whole post based on it.
So let me be absolutely clear (if that's possible).
...
So where does this say that a tithe is required? It don't, and neither did I!
I said the tithe is a good fundamental level to attain to; as in a personal goal. I guess to be more clear that would be for the average working and middle class Western culture Christian.
The reason I say it is a good level to attain to is because while it's not required any longer; it was and was a number Given by God himself. So if he gave that number in the law which we are no longer under it's likely that number is a good metering rod for the person with a goal to be a giver.
If you have no goal to be a giver that's none of my business, it's between you and God. You do as God directs you. My personal conviction which is what I shared is not a mandate for anyone. I simply shared my personal conviction on the matter hoping it may help shedd some light on the situation.

I addressed the part of your post that I found objectionable, and by quoting only that, I didn't convolute anything. This thread isn't about tithing, so I'll leave it there.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Be glad you don't go to the Baptist church. You get a box of donation envelops every month that supports everything under the sun.

What!!!!!!!!!!!
I have gone to a Baptist church for 70 years and we have never used donation envelops.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Hello everybody,

My first post on here, which I'd like to use to reach out to the wider Christian community for genuine advice.

I'd like to begin by setting a foundation.
My own beliefs (yours may differ) with regards to giving money to church is that if a large enough group of people come together on a regular basis such that rental or upkeep of a separate property is justified, then it is those people that should pay for it.

Therefore I don't have a problem in principle with giving to church, although everybody's financial situation is different: students, the affluent, the less well off, businesses at startup stage where cash is even more crucial, and do on.

I also believe that your relationship with God is personal, and that attendance at a church isn't even necessary to have a relationship with God.

So that sets the scene for my belief and my pragmatic approach.

The reason I'm posting this is because I am a member of a pentacostal Church in Newcastle (UK) and I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

It's not quite at the hassling stage yet, but certainly at the stage where I feel I've joined a member's club and I've come to the end of the free trial and now it's time to pay up.

There is in my view nothing wrong with 'passing the plate' or having the occasional reminder that the church is funded by donations, but there are talks on stage every other week, as well as various forms of giving:
The usual tithes, followed by a miracle offering which is basically an additional large collection once per year, then you've got prayer offerings which are collected for visiting speakers.

I feel that there is too much of a focus on money.

I run my own small business, which is in the startup stage.

The church also runs something called 'Kingdom Builders' which is an 'opportunity' for people who the church feels can afford to give more to go along and do just that, while being made to feel that they're a member of a special club.

Since starting my business I have been invited to Kingdom Builders, and I've also had people who are considered senior figures in the church talk to me about my own giving.
"I think you could be more generous with your money" and "so, when are YOU going to make a commitment to God and start tithing" has been said to me.

What do we think?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Most blessings.

From your several post, it seems that a few are living a life of luxury and want you to pay the bill which is ungodly.
If I were you, I would just walk away.
If they ask why, tell them why.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?

Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.

 

[Adam77]

Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?

Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.

No, rational debates don't work like that.

Disguising a statement as a question and wording it in such a way that suggests anybody who answers in a certain manner is wrong, but then places the onus on them to prove that their position is valid is not how rational conversation is undertaken.

This is in part because there may be a statement in the Bible, but not its converse.

For example you asked "Can a Christian live in the open windows of heaven if they don't tithe?".
Hypothetically, the Bible may say that those who give to God will be blessed.
BUT, it doesn't say specifically that "if you don't give money to your local church, you will NOT be blessed".

So you're setting up a false dichotomy, not to mention attributing your own meaning to God's word.

If you would like to make a point, simply state it and backup your own claim.