Giving money to church

[Adam77]

Hello everybody,

My first post on here, which I'd like to use to reach out to the wider Christian community for genuine advice.

I'd like to begin by setting a foundation.
My own beliefs (yours may differ) with regards to giving money to church is that if a large enough group of people come together on a regular basis such that rental or upkeep of a separate property is justified, then it is those people that should pay for it.

Therefore I don't have a problem in principle with giving to church, although everybody's financial situation is different: students, the affluent, the less well off, businesses at startup stage where cash is even more crucial, and do on.

I also believe that your relationship with God is personal, and that attendance at a church isn't even necessary to have a relationship with God.

So that sets the scene for my belief and my pragmatic approach.

The reason I'm posting this is because I am a member of a pentacostal Church in Newcastle (UK) and I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

It's not quite at the hassling stage yet, but certainly at the stage where I feel I've joined a member's club and I've come to the end of the free trial and now it's time to pay up.

There is in my view nothing wrong with 'passing the plate' or having the occasional reminder that the church is funded by donations, but there are talks on stage every other week, as well as various forms of giving:
The usual tithes, followed by a miracle offering which is basically an additional large collection once per year, then you've got prayer offerings which are collected for visiting speakers.

I feel that there is too much of a focus on money.

I run my own small business, which is in the startup stage.

The church also runs something called 'Kingdom Builders' which is an 'opportunity' for people who the church feels can afford to give more to go along and do just that, while being made to feel that they're a member of a special club.

Since starting my business I have been invited to Kingdom Builders, and I've also had people who are considered senior figures in the church talk to me about my own giving.
"I think you could be more generous with your money" and "so, when are YOU going to make a commitment to God and start tithing" has been said to me.

What do we think?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Most blessings.

 

[Adam77]

Thanks for approving, admin

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The question is, who has your heart?

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

It would seem to me that being in a Pentecostal church you should be afraid not to give. You know that you'll lose your salvation unless you give. Some churches use fear to keep their members in line. But seeing as it is a works-based gospel that they preach you could give everything you ever earn and you'll still be eighteen inches from being saved.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

It's not quite at the hassling stage yet, but certainly at the stage where I feel I've joined a member's club and I've come to the end of the free trial and now it's time to pay up.

I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

Yep, hold off a bit and they'll start throwing heaven at you.

 

[Adam77]

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The question is, who has your heart?

That's NOT the question.

The question is does God want our money, or a relationship with us all?

Is your heart really for God (which of course the response anybody on here would offer is "yes")...and there is a 'requirement' to basically prove this by giving ME money!
This is not only highly suspicious, but pure manipulation not only of people but also of God's word.

So somebody wants to test where your heart is, and conveniently this ends up with everybody else giving them money.
But there's no manipulation going on.
Yeah, ok then.

God's word has been taken out of context and used to justify killings, wars, and goodness knows what else through history.
Not a huge leap to consider that some might try to use it for financial gain.

I see visiting speakers coming over and collecting what must presumably be large sums of money in donations from folk in the crowd.
Our pastor does exchanges and the same thing presumably happens.

The pastor and the in crowd live essentially a jet set lifestyle, travelling to churches of the same denomination throughout the UK and occasionally abroad.

Prayer offerings presumably are collected along the way, and all this is probably paid for using donations from church members.

When church members give to church, do they give to God for this, or so that the less fortunate can be blessed?

I'm very sensitive about this coming across as negative, but I'm sick and tired of being chased to give my money, while seeing what it must be going towards.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Hello everybody,

My first post on here, which I'd like to use to reach out to the wider Christian community for genuine advice.

I'd like to begin by setting a foundation.
My own beliefs (yours may differ) with regards to giving money to church is that if a large enough group of people come together on a regular basis such that rental or upkeep of a separate property is justified, then it is those people that should pay for it.

Therefore I don't have a problem in principle with giving to church, although everybody's financial situation is different: students, the affluent, the less well off, businesses at startup stage where cash is even more crucial, and do on.

I also believe that your relationship with God is personal, and that attendance at a church isn't even necessary to have a relationship with God.

So that sets the scene for my belief and my pragmatic approach.

The reason I'm posting this is because I am a member of a pentacostal Church in Newcastle (UK) and I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

It's not quite at the hassling stage yet, but certainly at the stage where I feel I've joined a member's club and I've come to the end of the free trial and now it's time to pay up.

There is in my view nothing wrong with 'passing the plate' or having the occasional reminder that the church is funded by donations, but there are talks on stage every other week, as well as various forms of giving:
The usual tithes, followed by a miracle offering which is basically an additional large collection once per year, then you've got prayer offerings which are collected for visiting speakers.

I feel that there is too much of a focus on money.

I run my own small business, which is in the startup stage.

The church also runs something called 'Kingdom Builders' which is an 'opportunity' for people who the church feels can afford to give more to go along and do just that, while being made to feel that they're a member of a special club.

Since starting my business I have been invited to Kingdom Builders, and I've also had people who are considered senior figures in the church talk to me about my own giving.
"I think you could be more generous with your money" and "so, when are YOU going to make a commitment to God and start tithing" has been said to me.

What do we think?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Most blessings.

Hebrews 10:25 does not agree with you about not having to attend church my friend. Church is where believers come together to worship and praise God, hear the word preached, to be edified.

Now in regards to money, I think one needs to give to their local church. The electric, water, upkeep of the building(building fund), helping the poor in your community, funding missions, etc., are necessary, and can only be done by people who give their money. In Acts we see people selling their property and the local church distributing to people what they needed.

So God wants us to attend church and also give to keep it going.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Hello everybody,

My first post on here, which I'd like to use to reach out to the wider Christian community for genuine advice.

I'd like to begin by setting a foundation.
My own beliefs (yours may differ) with regards to giving money to church is that if a large enough group of people come together on a regular basis such that rental or upkeep of a separate property is justified, then it is those people that should pay for it.

Therefore I don't have a problem in principle with giving to church, although everybody's financial situation is different: students, the affluent, the less well off, businesses at startup stage where cash is even more crucial, and do on.

I also believe that your relationship with God is personal, and that attendance at a church isn't even necessary to have a relationship with God.

So that sets the scene for my belief and my pragmatic approach.

The reason I'm posting this is because I am a member of a pentacostal Church in Newcastle (UK) and I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

It's not quite at the hassling stage yet, but certainly at the stage where I feel I've joined a member's club and I've come to the end of the free trial and now it's time to pay up.

There is in my view nothing wrong with 'passing the plate' or having the occasional reminder that the church is funded by donations, but there are talks on stage every other week, as well as various forms of giving:
The usual tithes, followed by a miracle offering which is basically an additional large collection once per year, then you've got prayer offerings which are collected for visiting speakers.

I feel that there is too much of a focus on money.

I run my own small business, which is in the startup stage.

The church also runs something called 'Kingdom Builders' which is an 'opportunity' for people who the church feels can afford to give more to go along and do just that, while being made to feel that they're a member of a special club.

Since starting my business I have been invited to Kingdom Builders, and I've also had people who are considered senior figures in the church talk to me about my own giving.
"I think you could be more generous with your money" and "so, when are YOU going to make a commitment to God and start tithing" has been said to me.

What do we think?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Most blessings.

I also agree with you that churches can ask too much from their members, too, my friend. I am not pro or anti-tithing, as I am not settled on it, but I know God loves a cheerful, not coerced, giver.

 

[Adam77]

I also agree with you that churches can ask too much from their members, too, my friend. I am not pro or anti-tithing, as I am not settled on it, but I know God loves a cheerful, not coerced, giver.

Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I'm not really questioning giving to churches. That's a whole different debate, and my pragmatic opinion is summarised in my original post.

I'm questioning being chased for money, plus I guess implicitly also if people would feel the same as I do knowing where the money is going?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I'm not really questioning giving to churches. That's a whole different debate, and my pragmatic opinion is summarised in my original post.

I'm questioning being chased for money, plus I guess implicitly also if people would feel the same as I do knowing where the money is going?

I think every local church needs to be open with their finances and where the money is going. Does your church have business meetings my friend? If so, attend one and see how open they are. Every church I have been a member of has open business meetings.

 

[Adam77]

I think every local church needs to be open with their finances and where the money is going. Does your church have business meetings my friend? If so, attend one and see how open they are. Every church I have been a member of has open business meetings.

They have quarterly director's meetings, but no annual general meeting.

No financial report is published.
They do say that we have an open book policy, but does anybody actually ever look at it?

In reality nobody has any idea how much is being raised or spent, or on what.

So I don't feel any ownership (if you will) in the church or any form of shared responsibility.

It feels like a business that purports to be an open club.

As I said, I don't want this to sound negative, but I'm just reaching out in faith and asking for advice.

It's possible I'm just be tight, to be blunt.
Having said that, I've got my wits about me and when my spidey senses are tingling there is usually a very good reason.

 

[Adstar]

Hello everybody,

My first post on here, which I'd like to use to reach out to the wider Christian community for genuine advice.

I'd like to begin by setting a foundation.
My own beliefs (yours may differ) with regards to giving money to church is that if a large enough group of people come together on a regular basis such that rental or upkeep of a separate property is justified, then it is those people that should pay for it.

Therefore I don't have a problem in principle with giving to church, although everybody's financial situation is different: students, the affluent, the less well off, businesses at startup stage where cash is even more crucial, and do on.

I also believe that your relationship with God is personal, and that attendance at a church isn't even necessary to have a relationship with God.

So that sets the scene for my belief and my pragmatic approach.

The reason I'm posting this is because I am a member of a pentacostal Church in Newcastle (UK) and I feel that I am, essentially, being peer pressured to give financially to church.

It's not quite at the hassling stage yet, but certainly at the stage where I feel I've joined a member's club and I've come to the end of the free trial and now it's time to pay up.

There is in my view nothing wrong with 'passing the plate' or having the occasional reminder that the church is funded by donations, but there are talks on stage every other week, as well as various forms of giving:
The usual tithes, followed by a miracle offering which is basically an additional large collection once per year, then you've got prayer offerings which are collected for visiting speakers.

I feel that there is too much of a focus on money.

I run my own small business, which is in the startup stage.

The church also runs something called 'Kingdom Builders' which is an 'opportunity' for people who the church feels can afford to give more to go along and do just that, while being made to feel that they're a member of a special club.

Since starting my business I have been invited to Kingdom Builders, and I've also had people who are considered senior figures in the church talk to me about my own giving.
"I think you could be more generous with your money" and "so, when are YOU going to make a commitment to God and start tithing" has been said to me.

What do we think?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Most blessings.

The Bible tells me to give where i feel lead to give.. And that God loves a happy giver..

2 Corinthians 9: KJV
7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

They have quarterly director's meetings, but no annual general meeting.

No financial report is published.
They do say that we have an open book policy, but does anybody actually ever look at it?

In reality nobody has any idea how much is being raised or spent, or on what.

So I don't feel any ownership (if you will) in the church or any form of shared responsibility.

It feels like a business that purports to be an open club.

As I said, I don't want this to sound negative, but I'm just reaching out in faith and asking for advice.

It's possible I'm just be tight, to be blunt.
Having said that, I've got my wits about me and when my spidey senses are tingling there is usually a very good reason.

Ask them to peruse their finances. If they balk at that request, you have seen all you need see. I will keep you and that church I’m my prayers, my friend.

 

[Hevosmies]

It would seem to me that being in a Pentecostal church you should be afraid not to give. You know that you'll lose your salvation unless you give. Some churches use fear to keep their members in line. But seeing as it is a works-based gospel that they preach you could give everything you ever earn and you'll still be eighteen inches from being saved.

I also attend a pentecostal church and I think they dont preach a works gospel. atleast the one I attend.

Its the "traditional" kind of pentecostal. Not the whacky ultra-charismatic word of faith barking and howling kind of stuff.

I do disagree with them on something, but there are no independent fundamental baptist churches here that I could attend.

 

[Dino246]

They have quarterly director's meetings, but no annual general meeting.

No financial report is published.
They do say that we have an open book policy, but does anybody actually ever look at it?

In reality nobody has any idea how much is being raised or spent, or on what.

So I don't feel any ownership (if you will) in the church or any form of shared responsibility.

It feels like a business that purports to be an open club.

As I said, I don't want this to sound negative, but I'm just reaching out in faith and asking for advice.

It's possible I'm just be tight, to be blunt.
Having said that, I've got my wits about me and when my spidey senses are tingling there is usually a very good reason.

Methinks your discernment is working just fine.

The laws governing churches there must be different than in Canada. To have non-profit status, a church must have an AGM and published financial reports.

I make it a point to review such reports and attend AGM's of every church I've attended regularly. Most are legally above-board, even if some of their practices are questionable from a biblical standpoint.

I would echo Sackcloth's comments: if you are discouraged or forbidden from seeing the financial reports, shake the dust off as you leave.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Giving is important and one with a promise, the reason why is simple economics. Pastors and ministry staff are worthy of their wages, and even some worthy of double honor. Him that learns should share all good things with him that teaches which would include money along with other things such a success reports.
Also buildings property tax, untilities, insurance, and many numerous other utilitarian purposes. Then there is missions, these people need support to go into the horrible places they go to take the gospel.
Church attendance is required forsake not the gathering of yourselves together.
You have to get with God as to what his expectations of you is, however the tithe is an idea that predates the law. Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, so it's a good fundamental place to attain to.

 

[blue_ladybug]

It would seem to me that being in a Pentecostal church you should be afraid not to give. You know that you'll lose your salvation unless you give. Some churches use fear to keep their members in line. But seeing as it is a works-based gospel that they preach you could give everything you ever earn and you'll still be eighteen inches from being saved.

It is absolutely NOT TRUE that you'll lose your salvation if you don't give to the church..

 

[Dino246]

You have to get with God as to what his expectations of you is, however the tithe is an idea that predates the law. Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, so it's a good fundamental place to attain to.

Circumcision predates the Law too. Are you going to argue for that as well?

 

[Hevosmies]

If you go to a real church, and can afford it, tithe by all means.

 

[Adam77]

It is absolutely NOT TRUE that you'll lose your salvation if you don't give to the church..

You're right, but I do think the person who said that was being sarcastic and was talking about the focus on money at some churches 👍