Do you believe in this?

[eternally-gratefull]

So, at the end of the Tribulation, Armageddon, and then the 1,000 year reign with Christ (which it took being saved to make it this far), there are going to be sinners? Christ is daily on the scene in New Jerusalem and He will allow sinners to be present ([/b]AFTER KILLING EVERY SINNER/NOT SAVED IN ARMAGEDDON)? So you are saying it will be o.k. to sin during the 1,000 year reign after needing to be washed in Yeshua's BLOOD to even get to enter into New Jerusalem?

Well thats a nice opinion. But Jesus walked the earth, Healed the sick, the lame walked, the blind saw. And he even raised a man from the dead, Yet they still crucified him. I doubt it will be any different in those days.

God does not force people against their will to believe.

I will produce Jude evidence next. I was more shocked by your comments to get my response!!

I am shocked by your comments that God would remove free will. And that he being here will automatically get people to believe, when that has never happened. For him or his prophets..

People in the mellinium will still be born dead to christ, and seperated from God, they will still have a human nature to overcome. They will not just automatically believe.

And I still wait for Jude

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It is God's will and desire that all be saved and Jesus said the He didn't lose a single one given to Him by the Father.

So, if he did not lose any that he died for, are all mankind going to be in heaven, or did God just give a portion of mankind to his Son?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You always say Paul said this or that but when I ask where you never give it. But go with whatever you like.

Actually we were discussing your adding the doctrine or position of eternal security to the Gospel in order to be saved. Now you want to change it.

Quantrill

Yeah whatever, You know where it is, If you have not heard these passages. Then I have to wonder what you know of the word.

In Gal Paul said whoever teached a different gospel should be anathemad, You know it, You have probably read it 1000 times.

Gal was written about legalistic jews who were trying to add works of the law to FAITH in order to bne saved,

If you do not know this, again, you need to study more.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, even those who don't adhere to the doctrine of eternal security, are eternally secure as they have placed faith in Christ. What you have said is that they must adhere to the doctrine to be saved.

I got it....man.

Quantrill

How can you say they have placed faith in christ when they do not trust him to keep his promise?

whatever man, Good luck trying to share Gods word..

 

[Hevosmies]

I completely agree!!

I am just generalizing here, based upon the Book of Jude, concerning that one can know God and then deny Him by walking away.

And within that generalization, we are not always saved if we can know God and still walk away.

A question for you:

after the 1,000 reign in New Jerusalem (when God let's the Adversary (Satan) free and he is able to deceive those who have been with God for a 1,000 years and still backslide)...they prove you can be in PARADISE and still not ALWAYS BE SAVED!!

so clearly, the OSAS is bull poop!!


They are saved to make it to be with Christ and within 1,000 years still be deceived by Satan!!

What makes you believe that everyone during the millennium is saved?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What makes you believe that everyone during the millennium is saved?

Right.

Those born to them (and their grandchildren, etc) are not born "automatically righteous [/saved]".

Now, I believe that ONLY "the righteous" will ENTER the MK time period (at the start of it), but then after that, children will be born to them, who are not BORN automatically "righteous [/saved]," and so on, from there. "Death" will be more rare (reserved only for the rebellious). However, I believe "the righteous" who enter that time period at the start (i.e. the earthly MK/"age [singular] to come") will "never die" (per Jesus' words in John 11:25-26).

 

[rlm68]

Well thats a nice opinion. But Jesus walked the earth, Healed the sick, the lame walked, the blind saw. And he even raised a man from the dead, Yet they still crucified him. I doubt it will be any different in those days.

God does not force people against their will to believe.




I am shocked by your comments that God would remove free will. And that he being here will automatically get people to believe, when that has never happened. For him or his prophets..

People in the mellinium will still be born dead to christ, and seperated from God, they will still have a human nature to overcome. They will not just automatically believe.

And I still wait for Jude

Well thats a nice opinion. But Jesus walked the earth, Healed the sick, the lame walked, the blind saw. And he even raised a man from the dead, Yet they still crucified him. I doubt it will be any different in those days.

God does not force people against their will to believe.

I never mentioned God forcing people...I mentioned we have FREE WILL!!

And as far as the people during the 1,000 reign (us believers on thrones with God Himself), no doubt the new earth will need to be repopulated, no doubt many will be born and reject God even though He will be there in person, no doubt the things we know now still should apply during that time then, BUT...we are only assuming here:

Why do I say that?

If we are with God (on thrones judging during that time) as Revelation's 20 indicates, any sin will be judged immediately and dealt with (since there will literally be billions of people acting like God (judge)). It must be like the scenario in heaven when the Adversary rebelled and was booted. People being judged by us all during that time does seem like some would definitely rebel. And when the Adversary is released, he should have no challenge in deceiving many!!



I am shocked by your comments that God would remove free will. And that he being here will automatically get people to believe, when that has never happened. For him or his prophets..

Ummmm, that is because I never stated what you assume concerning FREE WILL!!




And I still wait for Jude

I already provided it : Jude 1:4

 

[rlm68]

What makes you believe that everyone during the millennium is saved?

I said, when the 1,000 reign begins, it begins with God and those of us who are saved. Since we are saved and according to Revelation's 20, we will be on thrones with God (acting like God in judgement). We won't die (we already passed our test and ran the good race by fighting the right battle and now are with our God)...so, if we don't die, it means there could be a condition of all believers after the 1,000 reign. Where it obviously changes is by the repopulating of the new earth. It's these generations that could be the ones later deceived. But we are part of the FIRST RESURRECTION. We will live from that moment on forever in the realm of God. We won't die!!

 

[rlm68]

Lol, do you even read what you post?

That is a scripture, which we believe to be the direct quote from the mouth of Yeshua, Who is claiming the elect can be deceived.

So yes, I definitely read what I post!!

 

[rlm68]

So by what criteria do we use to judge whether we are saved or not? If I was saved yesterday am I still saved today. If not do I go to God and get re saved. If I spend the rest of my life living by some standard I set myself and fail it on the day I die have I been wasting
my life? I remember someone explaining it by using the example of two swimmers trying to swim across a wide river. One only gets a few hundred yards and the other manages a mile but neither get to the other side. The point is that nobody deserves salvation. You cant earn it however righteous you consider yourself to be.

It's kind of like one scripture claiming: to be saved is to actually believe Christ is God and accept Him as our Lord and Savior!!

Then another scripture claims: even the demons believe who Christ is...but clearly...they ARE NOT SAVED!!

So, if the demons believe and end up in hell VS if we believe we are saved and we end up in heaven seems these 2 meanings are OPPOSITE!!

Of course, once we add FREE WILL it clarifies the differences.

But, here are angels who have been with God, dwelt with God, still end up in hell and they 100% believe in God.
Then we have (us)...never been with God nor dwelt with Him in person, but our simple belief will end us being with God.

And then somewhere down the line, us believing in God to be saved now means we can sin and future sins are just automatically removed through this idea of Grace.
I call foul!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well thats a nice opinion. But Jesus walked the earth, Healed the sick, the lame walked, the blind saw. And he even raised a man from the dead, Yet they still crucified him. I doubt it will be any different in those days.

God does not force people against their will to believe.

I never mentioned God forcing people...I mentioned we have FREE WILL!!

And as far as the people during the 1,000 reign (us believers on thrones with God Himself), no doubt the new earth will need to be repopulated, no doubt many will be born and reject God even though He will be there in person, no doubt the things we know now still should apply during that time then, BUT...we are only assuming here:

Why do I say that?

If we are with God (on thrones judging during that time) as Revelation's 20 indicates, any sin will be judged immediately and dealt with (since there will literally be billions of people acting like God (judge)). It must be like the scenario in heaven when the Adversary rebelled and was booted. People being judged by us all during that time does seem like some would definitely rebel. And when the Adversary is released, he should have no challenge in deceiving many!!



I am shocked by your comments that God would remove free will. And that he being here will automatically get people to believe, when that has never happened. For him or his prophets..

Ummmm, that is because I never stated what you assume concerning FREE WILL!!

Again, People will be born dead to christ. I doubt EVERY SIN will be taken care of. That would be next to impossible. Yes sins of murder rape etc etc. But personal sins that would be hard. also. I think spiritually dead people will also get mad that they are judged so much, Which is why it is so easy for satan to quickly gain an army’

And I still wait for Jude
I already provided it : Jude 1:4

Jude 1: 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord [b]God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This says these people were long ago marked out for condemntion How does this support loss of salvation? These people were marked as unbelievers before they were born.

Turning the grace of God to licentious is just taking Grace, and using it as a means or excuse to live however you want.. ie. You say a sinners prayer, and you are saved, you did not need to have faith, All you needed was to believe, now you can live however you want.

 

[rlm68]

a better scripture reference..better translation:

4 For some men slip in who long ago have been written beforehand for this judgment; irreverent, bartering the grace of our God for wantonness, and disowning our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."


I will have to reread Jude. I heard a message of backsliding with Jude used as a scripture reference. Seems I need to go back and re-look...

 

[trofimus]

That is a scripture, which we believe to be the direct quote from the mouth of Yeshua, Who is claiming the elect can be deceived.

So yes, I definitely read what I post!!

He says the true opposite. To deceive the elect is not possible.

Therefore, you do not read properly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

a better scripture reference..better translation:

4 For some men slip in who long ago have been written beforehand for this judgment; irreverent, bartering the grace of our God for wantonness, and disowning our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."


I will have to reread Jude. I heard a message of backsliding with Jude used as a scripture reference. Seems I need to go back and re-look...

I looked up in the greek. The term used would be better translated deny, or “to say no” or disagree with, not disown.

What translation is that? The only word I would disagree with is disown. We never owned God. Even believers, so that translation does not fit.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Do you believe in once saved always saved doctrine?

YES!

 

[preacher4truth]

The gospel that leads one to salvation is 'believe on Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour'. That is it.

Belief and faith are the same thing. Believing on Jesus Christ and placing faith in Jesus Christ is the same thing. The point is, that is all that is required.

Yes, I know the Millennium has nothing to do with our initial salvation. And neither does the doctrine of eternal security. That was my point. How about the Trinity? Do you need to understand the Trinity in order to be saved?

You see, you appear to be adding to the gospel. You are requiring something God never did in order for one to be saved.

Quantrill

Do you mean the person can believe, then go on and live their lives however they deem fit?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks brother.
I will unsubscribe to the thread as people (even some ive known for a while and used to look up.to) just came to hurt and steer hate sgainst me, rather than discussing and praying for me.
I am shook by the hate and envy in the body. Just like corinth

Who is hating?? I hope you do not think I am

 

[Quantrill]

Do you mean the person can believe, then go on and live their lives however they deem fit?

What did I say that made you ask that question? Did I say that? Or, are you saying that?

Quantrill

 

[preacher4truth]

What did I say that made you ask that question? Did I say that? Or, are you saying that?

Quantrill

I'm pretty sure you know the answer to the above. Right?

You said all a person has to do is believe. Here it is, what you said:

The gospel that leads one to salvation is 'believe on Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour'. That is it.

I then asked:

Do you mean the person can believe, then go on and live their lives however they deem fit?

 

[Quantrill]

I'm pretty sure you know the answer to the above. Right?

You said all a person has to do is believe. Here it is, what you said:



I then asked:

Gee, did I say once a person believes then they can go and live like they want...as though it doesn't matter to God? If I didn't say that, why do you ask if I said that?

Quantrill