So, man is stronger than his Creator? The will of a man is stronger than the will of God?
A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM
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So, man is stronger than his Creator? The will of a man is stronger than the will of God?
It is not that the will of man is 'stronger' than God's, but it is that God will not interfere with our free will . . . otherwise there is no such thing as free will at all. Christ says, "Come unto me, and I will give you rest," and the man says no. As long as that man's heart beats he will have an opportunity to say 'Yes,' but once his heart stops he has committed the unpardonable sin and can no longer be redeemed.
This is a good philosophical argument. But unbiblical.
GOD HAS CHOSEN to do it like this.
God could of done otherwise, but chose to create us with a free will
I asked you before how you define free will and the definition you gave does not say that this will must be irresitible for God.
You just said that its ability to choose road A instead of road B.
So, please, define what you mean by free will, because now it seems to me you are talking about unchangable will.
A biblical definition of free will.
FREE = Free
WILL = Will
Thank you for your time.
I did define it.
Free will is the FREEDOM we have to USE your WILL to do things or choose how to behave and CHOOSE who we serve.
God has sovereignly chosen to do it like this. Its not that He CANT just choose to create robots born perfect with no sin. But He wants people who CHOOSE to serve Him. Hence why He created the garden of Eden to begin with, and created Eve and Adam.
Real genuine fellowship.
If you have a wife, wouldn't you like for her to love you WILLINGLY for the way you are, rather than be a pre-programmed robot for it? Or showing FAKE love?
I think you do not understand me.
Lets say there is a dog with free will to chooose to go by the road A or B. He chooses freely B, because this road is more sunny.
If I want the dog to go the road A, I will put a bowl of meat there. The dog will freely choose the road A because the meat is more for him than more of light.
Therefore, my question is - can God change your choosing? Can His will change your will using any tool God has available? You seem to say no, but its not about freedom anymore, then. Its about inability to change.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Who do you think Jesus was referencing in John 17:9 when he states "for them."
Can God change what I choose. YES. God can do anything.
But do I believe God forces people to come to Christ? NO. I believe thats unbiblical.
Why if I answer no, its not about freedom anymore? It still is FREEDOM to choose.
CHOOSE this day whom ye shall serve. I believe the OP here by Bro BaptistBibleBeliever is excellent, going through many verses dealing with this topic included.
Notice that you jumped into an extreme position.
There are not just two options - God leaving us to choose randomly without his direction vs God forcing us.
See my example with the dog. I am guiding the dog to choose what I want by my grace given to him (bowl of meat), but I am NOT forcing him. In this way, the certainity of predetermination and the freedom of the will (the freedom of choosing) can work together without any biblical or logical problem.
And thats why some old theologians taught that God does not force, but only inclines and permits.
Wow, so allowing people to hear the Gospel and then choose whether they want to receive Christ is an EXTREME POSITION???
Their arguments are growing weaker and weaker, like one-legged men in a sack race. Perhaps the Holy Spirit can convict their hearts yet.
At any rate, say, in about a billion years they will know whether we are right or wrong. I shudder for the babes in Christ that have only recently come to Christ and asked Him to save them, whether they are being buffeted in their faith by these scholars.
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matthew 18:6).
"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" (Matthew 18:7).
I thought that people in 65 know better than calling childish names.
I'm a young kid compared to Donald Trump and it works pretty good for him. MAGA!
Donald Trump coined the phrase Fake News. Now I'm seeing that we also have Fake Good News.
I think that your poisonous notes and attacks are not worthy of my time, so you will be put to at least temporal ignore. I hope you will learn how to behave in a Christian way and according to your age.
Not quite.
Sigh...
You've failed to understand the distinctive use of "elect" here. It is that God chose the nation Israel for his special purposes that is under consideration. It doesn't mean individual salvation, or that he chose to save each and every Israelite. That would be utterly absurd, You continuously fail to use proper context.
Nope: You're debunked.
Again.
And...still waiting for you to offer proof and back up your claims in answer to post #550
No need to skip over it and pretend bro, You've failed miserably to support your claims, and I'm still waiting for a real answer.
Actually, the usage of the word "elect" throughout Scripture is always tied to service never individual salvation. There are elect angels, an elect nation(Israel), my servant and mine elect Jesus Christ, the election of grace, the elect Jews in the tribulation...the context always carries out through Scripture.