A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM

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BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
But do you know His mind, my friend?

I said . . . based on my quote of "Yea, hath God said?" which Satan asked Eve in the garden.

Not quoting God . . . quoting Satan. And yea, I believe I know what he is thinking.

"What method can I use to see that people who could be saved will never be saved. I believe that I will raise up men that will change the meanings of words in the Bible in order to confuse the multitudes. Yea, I know, I'll use a murderer in the 1500's to redefine my enemy's love for the whole world and cause it to be 'just a few elect' souls. Kind of an "Us Four and No More" religion and I'll sway billions to believe they are not chosen of God. Oh, how I love to hear souls screaming in the pits of hell!"
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Again, my apology. I meant no harm, nor was I attempting to twist your words.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
But do you know His mind, my friend?

I said . . . based on my quote of "Yea, hath God said?" which Satan asked Eve in the garden.

Not quoting God . . . quoting Satan. And yea, I believe I know what he is thinking.

"What method can I use to see that people who could be saved will never be saved. I believe that I will raise up men that will change the meanings of words in the Bible in order to confuse the multitudes. Yea, I know, I'll use a murderer in the 1500's to redefine my enemy's love for the whole world and cause it to be 'just a few elect' souls. Kind of an "Us Four and No More" religion and I'll sway billions to believe they are not chosen of God. Oh, how I love to hear souls screaming in the pits of hell!"
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My friend, are you saying reformed believers have been raised up by Satan to do his bidding?
 
trofimus said:
Calvinists did more for the gospel than any other protestant group.
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For real? I have NEVER seen a calvinist church with door to door evangelizing, with bus ministries, with street preaching. Its all sitting around exegeting bible texts.

Maybe in the past they did something more. My favorite calvinist preacher today would have to be R.C. Sproul. He is a genuine guy, NOT A PHONY! I disagree with him, but he is a REAL individual! I'd shake his hand.

But even then I would argue that the anabaptists did some work, and Lutherans did the MOST work in Europe.. (In that time).

Today this title goes to PENTECOSTALS. Ironically im not one despite attending a pentecostal church. (Traditional pentecostal, not the ultra-charismatic prosperity gospel contemporary music liberal watered down circus')
Say what you want about them but the pentecostals are spreading the gospel worldwide, in unprecedented rates in Africa and Asia especially.
But I also must say, the advantage they have is generous people and lots of them. Independent baptists do loads of work too, but their problem is LACK OF MONEY. (Compared to the others, fundamental baptists are poor as dirt)
 
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Have we not learned anything from these scholars? We can only believe what God wills us to believe. Might as well chuck our Bibles because the obvious meaning of the English means nothing. Gosh, you have the world in John 3:16 referring to 'only the elect' while everywhere else 'world' means . . . <GASP> world.

What chance do we have with their capricious god that only takes pleasure in how many humans he can toy with and throw in hell.

DANG!
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What about this verse:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Cant be done in calvinism! God has to grant you the repentance. So its just an empty command with no ability on people's end to follow through.

I always go back to the example for my ancestors. The israelites held in Egypt, they were asked to MAKE BRICK but were given NO STRAW! Yet it was demanded of them, just like in calvinism, repent repent repent, but you cant! Turn to God, believe on the Lord, but you cant!

Another verse calvinists have to ADD to, in order to fit their doctrine:


1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

^Doesnt mean all men, but all KINDS of men (like above, kings, those in authority, etc, POOR explanation btw) or all ELECT MEN. Doesnt say all elect men, or all kinds of men. But lets make it fit calvinism somehow.

Think about how devastating it is for evangelizing to know you are making no difference at all, the amount of people God has elected will be the same no matter how much or little you preach.
I would do the minimum or NOTHING if i was a calvinist.
 
Hevosmies said:
Seriously? I have NEVER seen a calvinist church with door to door evangelizing, with bus ministries, with street preaching. Its all sitting around exegeting bible texts.

Maybe in the past they did something more. But even then I would argue that the anabaptists did some work, and Lutherans did the MOST work in Europe.. (In that time).

Today this title goes to PENTECOSTALS. Ironically im not one despite attending a pentecostal church. (Traditional pentecostal, not the ultra-charismatic prosperity gospel contemporary music liberal watered down circus')
Say what you want about them but the pentecostals are spreading the gospel worldwide, in unprecedented rates in Africa and Asia especially.
But I also must say, the advantage they have is generous people and lots of them. Independent baptists do loads of work too, but their problem is LACK OF MONEY. (Compared to the others, fundamental baptists are poor as dirt)
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They sit around in a circle all day arguing about which one of them is more elected than the other. They don't have time to go knocking on doors with that important discussion going on constantly.
 
Hevosmies said:
What about this verse:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Cant be done in calvinism! God has to grant you the repentance. So its just an empty command with no ability on people's end to follow through.

I always go back to the example for my ancestors. The israelites held in Egypt, they were asked to MAKE BRICK but were given NO STRAW! Yet it was demanded of them, just like in calvinism, repent repent repent, but you cant! Turn to God, believe on the Lord, but you cant!
Click to expand...
I think a Calvinist would explain it thusly. Everyone in Paul's audience had an invisible light above their heads that only Paul could see, so when he invited them to repent he was really only addressing the elect. The ones with no little lights on their head stayed home that day anyway since they were not elected.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
They sit around in a circle all day arguing about which one of them is more elected than the other. They don't have time to go knocking on doors with that important discussion going on constantly.
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Your hatred and false witnessing about other believers is shocking. I think you should start examining your own heart if you are OK, spiritually.
 
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Hevosmies said:
What about this verse:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Cant be done in calvinism! God has to grant you the repentance. So its just an empty command with no ability on people's end to follow through.

I always go back to the example for my ancestors. The israelites held in Egypt, they were asked to MAKE BRICK but were given NO STRAW! Yet it was demanded of them, just like in calvinism, repent repent repent, but you cant! Turn to God, believe on the Lord, but you cant!
Click to expand...

I can show you four verses that unequivocally show repentance is a gift of God, my friend.

Acts 5:31 God granting repentance to Israel
Acts 11:18 God granting repentance to the Gentiles
Romans 2:4 God’s goodness leading people to repentance
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance is a changing of the mind, which is what μετάνοια (metanoia). But is also produces action in the changing of one’s mind. The lost hate God, will not serve Him, are at enmity(have an ill-will) towards God, in their fallen state. Once God quickens(made alive) them, they exercise faith and repentance.
 
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Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
You are entitled to your belief, my friend. I personally believe we have a better grasp of His nature. But I will leave it there.
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I really wish you would defend it, sometimes when we have to defend a concept we realize how illogical it is imho..
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
I can show you four verses that unequivocally show repentance is a gift of God, my friend.

Acts 5:31 God granting repentance to Israel
Acts 11:18 God granting repentance to the Gentiles
Romans 2:4 God’s goodness leading people to repentance
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Repentance is a changing of the mind, which is what μετάνοια (metanoia). But is also produces action in the changing of one’s mind. The lost hate God, will not serve Him, are at enmity(have an ill-will) towards God, in their fallen state. Once God quickens(made alive) them, they exercise faith and repentance.
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So faith is not a gift?
 
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