The problem is in your universalization. If you had said, "What I have seen and experienced of "tongues" doesn't conform to my understanding of Scripture", all would be fine.
Speaking in tongues
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The problem is in your universalization. If you had said, "What I have seen and experienced of "tongues" doesn't conform to my understanding of Scripture", all would be fine.
Exactly my point, i'm currently speaking with my tongue to you and so the current held belief that speaking meaningless bubble is something special from God is falsehood.
Where do you get self edification from that? there isn't anything to suggest self edification from what you have quoted.
A letter sent to a group of people instructing them on what to do as a group and so was read by a group of people.
Jude
17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
Reality is only within the confines of experience. If i say fire is hot because i got burnt, i will confidently tell you that you'll get burnt if you touch the fire.
You're assuming that "tongues" are "meaningless bubble (sic)". The same kind of terminology has been used by high-minded explorers when hearing indigenous peoples speak. The assumption of "meaningless" and the characterization as "babble" stem from ignorant arrogance, not respectful inquiry.
The Greek term is the same. "Build yourselves up" is linguistically equivalent to "edify yourselves" which would be self-edification.
Again, "edify" (and cognates) is never used in a negative way in the NT. To assume that it is in 1 Cor 14 is to impose an extra-biblical assumption on the text.
"Tongues are miraculous but it doesn't mean the speaker doesn't know what they are talking about:" is not a "well known fact".
Since you believe otherwise, you are welcome to provide evidence to support it.
No, the context pf 1cor 12 to 14 prophesying is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the word of God. A prophet is Gods spokemen. No is going beyond what is written . You do n ot know what you are talking about in context to prophesying as a gift of the Holy Spirit recorded in 1cr chapter 12 , 13, and 14. I guess the gifts of the Holy Spirit adressed in the letter from Paul was awaste of time because they are no gifts anymore. Wrong
You have some gaps in your understanding here. Peter described prophesying when he said, 'Holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.'
Paul treats teaching and prophesying as separate gifts in Romans 12, and prophets and teachers as separate ministries in I Corinthians 12. He writes of prophets and evangelists as separate roles in Ephesians 4:11.
Revelation continues, or no one could be saved. No man knows the Father unless the Son reveals Him.
It is good if we have come to an agreement on what the passage teaches. You should consider that you are not omniscent about speaking in tongues.
I don't accept the 'initial evidence doctrine', but I'd like to point out that historically, there were other groups speaking in tongues. There was a prayer meeting in Germany in the 1800's, some cases of it in England and Scotland. In the late 1800's in the US, there are accounts of churches speaking in tongues in Maine, and a movement in Indiana with the Fire Baptized Holiness, and there were revivals in the 1890's in North Carolina in the churches that later organized as the Church of God (Cleveland) where there was speaking in tongues.
actually, the gifts of the Holy Spirit can be traced from the day of Pentecost to today. Only bias would not accept that.
If you look more broadly at spiritual gifts, visions, etc., there are numerous accounts all throughout history. Something that comes to mind is the first 'king of Jerusalem' in the Crusades. A monk had told his mother that one son would be... forget.. another would be a duke, I think, and one would be a king. None were in line to be king. The one who took the throne had studied for the priesthood originally.
There was some speaking in tongues among Quakers, some of the Protestant groups in France-- Hugonauts (sp?) as they were called, in Methodist revivals around 1801 in the US, at least one among New Light Baptists in the early 1800's, the group from which many of the modern Baptist groups sprung from. And several references in the Ante-Nicene period, but many, many many more references to prophetic experiences like dreams, also healings, miracles. St. Patrick is an example. The actual writings accepted by historians to be his tell of a vision telling him to escape from Ireland and hearing a supernatural voice calling him back.
no it is just a fact I too can have a bias and I do as you do if you are honest. a mod nothing to do with it
. And disagree all you want Christ is the teacher. We are to call no man teacher, Master, Rabbi on earth just as in the same way we are to call no man father on earth for one is our master and Father in heaven. The teaching ministry I would believe has to do with teaching men how we can hear the voice of God, as the things of God. How do we interpret the parables. why do we look to things not seen rather than the things that are seen (etc)
He warns us of those who say we do need a man to teach us . It is the formula for antichrists . As the scriptures teach us we abide in Him
Yes, Holy men of old just like born again Christians prophesy, prophecy..... God's word as they are moved by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them.
The revelations or prophecy represents the living word of God. As men judge or evaluate it, it actively judges the intent of one heart.
It as it is written with the word it representing the faith of our unseen God. It will continue to work in man to both will and do the good pleasure of our God. God is no longer brining new revelations as prophecy . We prophesy the perfect or complete.
Why go above that which is written? Are there any laws missing by which we could know Him more adequately?
No one suggested there are no more spiritual unseen gifts. There simply is no such thing as sign gifts to include healing, falling back slain in the spirit, falling backward, holy laughter or whatever man comes up with to try and give them some outward evidence of the Holy Spirit is working . We walk by faith the unseen eternal.
Signs are for those who believe not prophecy. God's word prophecy for those who do exercises the faith that comes from hearing prophecy. Hearing God by a work of His faith.
Jesus said its an evil generation, the generation of natural man that does require one. This shows they have "no faith". Not little none
God is simply not brining and new revelations as prophecy . We have the complete or perfect.
Why desire to go above that which is written?
Calling someone by religious titles and appreciating the gifts of the Spirit working through other members of the body of Christ like I Corinthians 12 teaches are two different things.
{quote]
He warns us of those who say we do need a man to teach us . It is the formula for antichrists . As the scriptures teach us we abide in Him[/quote]
If you interpret a verse in a way that contradicts other scriptures, that's a good sign you are interpreting wrong. I Corinthians 12 teaches that one part of the body does not say to another 'I have no need of thee.' This book goes to great lengths to persuade believers to use their gifts to edify one another in church meetings. You should interpret John's teaching in line with what other scripture teaches.
Yes, Holy men of old just like born again Christians prophesy, prophecy..... God's word as they are moved by the Holy Spirit that dwells within them.
When the perfect comes, the understanding of Paul when he wrote I Corinthians and much of the New Testament, will seem like the understanding of a child. We are still learning from Paul. His understanding is not like a child's to us. We still know in part. You have not fully comprehended all things in the New Testament, much less attained to perfect understanding.
Paul wrote not to go beyond what is written in regard to how the Corinthians looked on certain men they were following. But it was written during a time when revelatory prophecy was definitely still active. Revelation hadn't been written yet. Paul wrote of the church prophesying and an unlearned man or unbeliever going in and hearing the secrets of his heart made manifest. This sort of thing still happens in churches that prophesy today, where those who prophesy may at times prophesy things that they could not naturally know about an individual.
If the statement to not go beyond what is written was written during a time where spiritual gifts like revelatory prophecy were still active, then it does not mean to reject revelatory gifts.