Speaking in tongues

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Dino246

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Human language can also be interpreted if the listeners can not relate to the tongue/human language being spoken (v13) but this doesn't in anyway erase what Paul talks of in v9 about speaking understandable words with our tongue. It completely knocks out the current phenomena of tongues that must always be words with no structure that are not understandable by listeners.
Tongues without interpretation are not understandable; tongues with interpretation are.

2. Apostles spoke in tongues and their listeners understood them without any interpretation. I'm yet to see apostles talk in tongues that was interpreted to their listeners.
The apostles spoke without interpretation in Acts 2, because they apparently spoke in the language of the hearers. In the other instances of speaking in tongues in Acts such details were not provided, but the gift was valid nonetheless.

3. In your misunderstanding, you are trying to use v2 to prop up your ideas of tongues. I already told you that the whole chapter is about Paul correcting a wrong practice in this church and v2 is where the root of the problem is. Speaking things that are considered mysteries to others is not Love. Paul calls it self edification which is a wrong thing and the root of the problem he was addressing in that chapter.
There is nothing in 1 Corinthians 14 that suggests "self-edification" is a "wrong thing". It merely points to the edification of the body as a better thing. Jude 1:20 uses the same Greek word, and the context is clearly positive. There isn't a single use of edify (or cognates) in the NT that is "a wrong thing". It's poor hermeneutics to impose an unbiblical understanding of self-edification upon the text.
 

Kavik

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I was wondering id you still held to the diglossia interpretation of Acts 2? That's got to be one of the worst interpretations of the passage I have seen and runs contrary to the words on the page, what I have read of history, and the way the earliest Greek-reading interpreters that I am aware of interpreted the passage. I am glad that is not how you explain tongues in I Corinthians.

My interpretation of the Pentecost narrative is too long to post here, but it can be found on the following links:

https://christianchat.com/blogs/another-understanding-of-“tongues”-at-pentecost-part-1.176660/
https://christianchat.com/blogs/another-understanding-of-“tongues”-at-pentecost-part-2.176661/
https://christianchat.com/blogs/another-understanding-of-“tongues”-at-pentecost-part-3.176662/
https://christianchat.com/blogs/another-understanding-of-“tongues”-at-pentecost-part-4-final.176663/

It entails a bit of reading but gets into the details of this viewpoint.

I do believe that this is the most logical and reasonable interpretation and the one that, given the context and point in history, makes the most sense.

“Tongues” in 1 Corinthians are real, rational languages. Always known by the speaker (their native language), but not always known by the hearers. Again, there is no passage in 1 Cor that cannot be explained in light of real, rational language(s).

Paul does call the manifestations of the Spirit in I Corinthians 12 'charismata' which is related to the word for grace and is translated gift or spiritual gift.

The problem with just seeing these gifts as having a knack or something is... who just has a knack for performing miracles or prophesying.

They can be called a ‘knack’, but it kind of boils down to semantics – if a person has an extreme propensity for a particular thing, be it music, language, healing, prophesying, etc., it certainly can be called a ‘knack’, but more often, such people are said to have a God-given talent, or God given ‘gift’. Moreover, if said ‘gift‘ is used to further the glory of God, then many would call it a spiritual gift, a gift of the Holy Spirit.

I know two languages well enough to just interpret from one to the other. In I Cor. 14:13 one is told to pray that he may interpret.

I’ve kind of gone into this in previous posts - I know I’ve stated it better than this, but this is the only one I could find at the moment…

The text does not necessarily imply that the person speaking is also going to be doing the translation; it just says he should pray that he can translate what he's saying - it doesn't indicate how or by what means the translation is to be done. The assumption is that the person speaking will also be doing the translating, but it could just as well imply that if he's planning on participating at a public meeting by praying aloud, to pray that he is able to secure an adequate translation whether attempting it himself or via a translator.

Further, there is no specific time frame referenced – most people would imply that he is to pray to be able to translate instantaneously, but it could just as well imply that he should pray that (at some point) he’ll also be able to translate (whether he himself learns the local language well enough, or he has someone translate for him).

More to the point though; it’s one thing to speak another language, but another thing entirely to interpret/translate.

If my native language is English and I learn German enough to be able to speak it to get by, it does not necessarily mean I can adequately translate; I may be able to get across the gist of what I’m trying to say, but to express the nuances, particularly with things like prayer, is actually quite a difficult task.

Given then the difficulties faced in translation/interpretation, it is not at all unreasonable for a person in a multi-lingual church situation to ask God for help so that the rest of the church can be edified through their participation. Again, it should also be pointed out that the interpretation is not necessarily confined to the one speaking as referred to in v13 and in v5. Verse 28 indicates others also can interpret, and of course, there’s no specific time frame referenced. There are a number of possible ways to view that passage.

Paul then goes on to indicate, that if the person can’t translate (whether himself or through a translator), he should keep quiet and pray silently to himself.

It should be noted that “interpret” here just means translate. When one translates specifically something spoken, s/he is said to “interpret”; if it’s written, it’s typically referred to as “translating”. If a person is about to engage in a conversation with a speaker of a foreign language, they usually request an “interpreter”, not a “translator”. No other meaning should be construed from this phrase just because it is used in the Bible.

In the early Pentecostal mo ement, according to those who were there, there were people speaking in the tongues of the immigrant communities, which helped draw the crowds. A man from India identified a tomg the missionary AG Garr spoke in as his own. But AG Garr found he could not speak in the tongue of his hoosing and make it the language of the country he was in. Some of the ideas some of the early Pentecostals had about speaking in tongues and evangelism were theological assumptions.

ccassionallt, Pentecostals have spoken in the tongues of those present. There ate mane accounts of Assemblies of God missionaries doing such things. I knew another missionary who had that experience, too. I spoke with someone who heard a grandma in a village in China speaking in tongues, also.

Stories such as this abound in the tongues-speaking community. They are, unfortunately anecdotal at best. Many have achieved the status of “urban legend” (particularly the one about there always seeming to be one Jewish guy in the crowd who recognizes a particular tongue as Hebrew or Aramaic). There is, unfortunately, just no instance of actual documented xenoglossy – anywhere.
 

CS1

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Can someone explain to me the uniqueness of this gift of speaking in tongues which most congregations in my neighbourhood insist on acquiring? Is it in any way superior to or more edifying than other gifts?
the question is a good one. The problem I see is the context of the understanding all of 1cor chapter's 12 to 14 are saying in context to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I have said as I always do many have abused the gifts God has entrusted man with. ALL of them. None more misused then the office of Pastor. Yet that Gift is well established in the church today.
When 1cor 12 :31 says " But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. " What is being said here?
We are instructed in this chapter to desire the "best gifts" what are the best Gifts? the english anguage is not the best in context of EXPLAINING HERE. the best gifts are the gifts that the Holy Spirit uses you in to get done what HE needs done. The most effective gift at the time is the BEST GIFT. we are to ask God and desire what ever gift will help minster to the body of Christ.


Chapter 13 deals with the action of the use of the gifts of the Spirit are to be done in Love. Some take chapter 13 as to suggest the gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away with. I do not see that but some use 1cor 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.


they will cease is not they have ceased. verse 10 but that which is perfect has come does not say what the perfect is nor does it say it has come. the context here is the the perfect state of all things, to be ushered in by the return of Christ from heaven, when HE comes . That has not happened. YET. it to speaks of maturity of the believer.

verse 12 of chapter 13 says

" For now we see (Greek means to discern)

through a glass, darkly;
but then face to face: the context of face to face is in the presence of someone, the outward appreance . who is that person? soem take this to mean whyen the Bible was made. That does not fit. many will argue that point. and allergorize it.

now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. "

to Know in part is speaking of a serious relationship and understnding of something that is absalute But NOT fully knowing all of it. we know we will see Jesus but we have not yet. We know he saved us but we have not been saved yet. We know He is coming but He has not come yet.

In chapter 14 If that what is to be done away with then why would the Holy Spirit lead Paul to say verse 1?
"Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy."

desire spiritual gifts . and even more to prophesy.

as we move through chapter 14 some use verse 5 as to dismiss the gift of tongues just because the word "greater" is used.
1cor 14:5
"I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. "

what does greater mean? well the context appears to about more time . Prophecy = the spoke word has been established longer then speaking in tongues. The word is powerful and MORE effective then Tongues amen . "except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. "

The Holy Spirit addreses the imaturtiy and error and instructs how the gifts should be used and what to do to ensure they are not abused. Some do not hold to this Biblical points because they allow thier personal experiance and bias not see this.

the last verses of Chapter 14 says


1cor 14: 37-40

37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. [fn]
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.


There you go. desire all the gifts the ones that will be most effective in bring the Gospel. and use them with maturity and leave those alone who are not willing to accept them. Love must be the motive in using them. and correction and discernment by the word of God and elders have to be active. the outcome must be one of the following if not all :

salvation
healing
deliverance
edifcation
comfort
building up
bring glory to God
up Lift the name of Jesus.

they have to always Line up with the word of God, Bring glory to God not man, and lift up Jesus.
 

presidente

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There is, unfortunately, just no instance of actual documented xenoglossy – anywhere.
Clearly, this is false. You may be thinking of a particular kind of literature. I spoke with a Pentecostal historian, the founder of the field, and he mentioned accounts that were documented. I have a book on my shelf of accounts of events at Azusa Street. Eye witness testimony is a form of documentation if it is written. Eye witness testimony is a form of evidence scripture addresses, and experiments in a lab are not.
 

Dino246

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... I do believe that this is the most logical and reasonable interpretation and the one that, given the context and point in history, makes the most sense.

“Tongues” in 1 Corinthians are real, rational languages. Always known by the speaker (their native language), but not always known by the hearers. Again, there is no passage in 1 Cor that cannot be explained in light of real, rational language(s).

Paul does call the manifestations of the Spirit in I Corinthians 12 'charismata' which is related to the word for grace and is translated gift or spiritual gift.

The problem with just seeing these gifts as having a knack or something is... who just has a knack for performing miracles or prophesying.
They can be called a ‘knack’, but it kind of boils down to semantics – if a person has an extreme propensity for a particular thing, be it music, language, healing, prophesying, etc., it certainly can be called a ‘knack’, but more often, such people are said to have a God-given talent, or God given ‘gift’. Moreover, if said ‘gift‘ is used to further the glory of God, then many would call it a spiritual gift, a gift of the Holy Spirit.
If Paul had been talking about natural abilities, it is odd that he would focus on one which "could be" natural and one that could not be natural. Nobody has the natural ability to prophesy, work miracles, or discern between spirits. Some of the other gifts could be "natural" but taken as a whole, they can't be. Unsaved persons can have a "knack" for certain things too... clearly not "gifts of the Spirit".

As to the "tongue" always being known by the speaker, there is no scriptural support for that assertion. If the person knows the language, it isn't a "gift of the Spirit". Any person with moderate intelligence, saved or not, can learn a second language.
 

presidente

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Paul contrasts praying with the spirit (praying in tongues) with praying with his mind, Kavik.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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garee

The apostles did miracles. Do you think that means they walked by sight instead of walking by faith?
They were moved by the Spirit of Christ and not walking by sight as the things seen, the temporal

When others would accredit the work of Christ's faith in various healing to the apostles .Then men would worship the apostles as gods in the likeness of men. Paul tore his clothes exclaimed "blasphemy" which is attributing the work of one not seen to man seen .You could say the abomination of desecration standing in the holy, unseen place of God. God is simply not served by human hands as a will.

Acts 14:10-12 King James Version (KJV) Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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As to the "tongue" always being known by the speaker, there is no scriptural support for that assertion. If the person knows the language, it isn't a "gift of the Spirit".
If the language is of God. It is a gift of the Spirit. God does not accept the witness of man according to his private interpretation as a personal commentary .He does not say ask the guy next door and open the air way for signs as lying wonders. He protects the integrity of His book of prophecy, the Bible. The warning is to not add to it or substract from the perfect


Any person with moderate intelligence, saved or not, can learn a second language.
Yes but even if they know 10 languages it does not mean they can prophesy, declare prophecy, God's word, as it is written . God is no longer bringing any new revelations a prophecy after any manner to include Him bringing his interpretation of all the nations of the world and not the Hebrew alone. as a sign against those who mock prophecy.

The perfect has come. What we had in part up until the last Amen... today we have the whole.

Why go above that which is written? Amen?

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen .Revelation 22:
 

Noose

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Tongues without interpretation are not understandable; tongues with interpretation are.
That doesn't answer:

1 Cor 14: 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

How can one speak intelligible words with their tongue?

The apostles spoke without interpretation in Acts 2, because they apparently spoke in the language of the hearers. In the other instances of speaking in tongues in Acts such details were not provided, but the gift was valid nonetheless.
Do you have an example where the apostles spoke in tongues and someone interpreted or is it every time they spoke in tongues, people understood them?


There is nothing in 1 Corinthians 14 that suggests "self-edification" is a "wrong thing". It merely points to the edification of the body as a better thing. Jude 1:20 uses the same Greek word, and the context is clearly positive. There isn't a single use of edify (or cognates) in the NT that is "a wrong thing". It's poor hermeneutics to impose an unbiblical understanding of self-edification upon the text.
There is; what's the connection between love and tongues?

1 Cor 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue a does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Love has always been about others and never self. This is the root of the problem which Paul was addressing in that entire chapter.

And, the purpose for gifts was never for self edification in the first place:

1 Cor 12:
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. ........

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues d ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

Jude 1:20 is not about self edification whether it is the same Greek word used or not. Try again.
 

Noose

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If Paul had been talking about natural abilities, it is odd that he would focus on one which "could be" natural and one that could not be natural. Nobody has the natural ability to prophesy, work miracles, or discern between spirits. Some of the other gifts could be "natural" but taken as a whole, they can't be. Unsaved persons can have a "knack" for certain things too... clearly not "gifts of the Spirit".

As to the "tongue" always being known by the speaker, there is no scriptural support for that assertion. If the person knows the language, it isn't a "gift of the Spirit". Any person with moderate intelligence, saved or not, can learn a second language.
Tongues are miraculous but it doesn't mean the speaker doesn't know what they are talking about:

1 Cor 14:13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
 

presidente

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That doesn't answer:

1 Cor 14: 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

How can one speak intelligible words with their tongue?
One can do that by speaking in the language of the people listening. But you are missing the point. Paul does not say to them, "You must only speak intelligible words with your tongue to the audience who is listening to you." He asks this question to make a point. He is pointing out that the other people did not understand what someone says 'in tongues.' He urges them to be zealous for gifts that edify the church, and then states that the one who speaks in tongues should pray that he may interpret.

You seem to be making a command here where Paul does not.

Do you have an example where the apostles spoke in tongues and someone interpreted or is it every time they spoke in tongues, people understood them?
Examples? There are just a few occasions of speaking in tongues in Acts and a few references in I Corinthians aside from this lengthy chapter that gives us insight into how tongues operate in church and how to function in the gift properly in a church meeting.

Do you consider I Corinthians 14's teachings on speaking in tongues to be valid?

There is; what's the connection between love and tongues?

1 Cor 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue a does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
Love has always been about others and never self. This is the root of the problem which Paul was addressing in that entire chapter.
If you love other people and want to edify them, and you can speak in tongues, then you can pray that you may interpret the tongue so you can edify them with the interpretation.

If edifying yourself is sinful or unloving, then you should not pray alone or read the Bible alone. That's a bizaar and extreme idea, though. It is not wrong to love oneself, but one should love ones neighbor as one loves oneself.

You do not seem to be getting what Paul says.

Let's look at these verses.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Look at verse 5, "I would that ye all spake with tongues" Paul wanted them to participate in this self-edifying behavior. Speaking in tongues in a self-edifying way is good. Paul wanted that.

But he wrote, "but rather that ye prophesied". Even more than Paul wanted believers to edify themselves by speaking in tongues, he wanted them to prophesy and edify others. Self-edification is good. Edifying others is better. Speaking in tongues is good, but the one who prophesies is greater because he edifies the church-- unless the speaker in tongues interprets. In that case, Paul is not saying the one who prophesies is greater.

Follow the argument here. Paul is not treating self-edification as an evil thing. He does teach that in the church edifying others is far superior to edifying oneself.
 

wolfwint

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speaking in tongues (praying in the Holy Spirit) is not a gift that is dispersed within a Pentecostal church as
explained in 1Corinthians 13 and 14.
Speaking in tongues is a daily prayer language which is described by Jesus and the Apostles as a sign of true baptism
or infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Read Acts for clarification of this along with Mark 16:15-20.

Nick - baptized in water on 30th October 1996 and baptized in the Holy Spirit on 1st December 1996 with the
Bible evidence of speaking in a new tongue.
This is quite different to operating the voice gift of diversities of tongues along with interpretation that we conduct
in our worship meetings.
Then it is interesting that before 1.1.1901 you cant find a christian with the True baptism with the Holy Spirit. Also it is interesting that Pope Leo xiii dedicatet the 20th century to the Holy Spirit at the same day, as the first person received the True baptism with the Holy Spirit in Topeka.
 

CS1

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If the language is of God. It is a gift of the Spirit. God does not accept the witness of man according to his private interpretation as a personal commentary .He does not say ask the guy next door and open the air way for signs as lying wonders. He protects the integrity of His book of prophecy, the Bible. The warning is to not add to it or substract from the perfect




Yes but even if they know 10 languages it does not mean they can prophesy, declare prophecy, God's word, as it is written . God is no longer bringing any new revelations a prophecy after any manner to include Him bringing his interpretation of all the nations of the world and not the Hebrew alone. as a sign against those who mock prophecy.

The perfect has come. What we had in part up until the last Amen... today we have the whole.

Why go above that which is written? Amen?

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen .Revelation 22:
the prophecy of 1cor 12 to 14 is not new that is why many get it wrong it's confirmation of what has already been said. Prophecy is not prophesying they are two different things. The perfect that has come is Christ.
 

Noose

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One can do that by speaking in the language of the people listening. But you are missing the point. Paul does not say to them, "You must only speak intelligible words with your tongue to the audience who is listening to you." He asks this question to make a point. He is pointing out that the other people did not understand what someone says 'in tongues.' He urges them to be zealous for gifts that edify the church, and then states that the one who speaks in tongues should pray that he may interpret.

You seem to be making a command here where Paul does not.



Examples? There are just a few occasions of speaking in tongues in Acts and a few references in I Corinthians aside from this lengthy chapter that gives us insight into how tongues operate in church and how to function in the gift properly in a church meeting.

Do you consider I Corinthians 14's teachings on speaking in tongues to be valid?



If you love other people and want to edify them, and you can speak in tongues, then you can pray that you may interpret the tongue so you can edify them with the interpretation.

If edifying yourself is sinful or unloving, then you should not pray alone or read the Bible alone. That's a bizaar and extreme idea, though. It is not wrong to love oneself, but one should love ones neighbor as one loves oneself.

You do not seem to be getting what Paul says.

Let's look at these verses.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Look at verse 5, "I would that ye all spake with tongues" Paul wanted them to participate in this self-edifying behavior. Speaking in tongues in a self-edifying way is good. Paul wanted that.

But he wrote, "but rather that ye prophesied". Even more than Paul wanted believers to edify themselves by speaking in tongues, he wanted them to prophesy and edify others. Self-edification is good. Edifying others is better. Speaking in tongues is good, but the one who prophesies is greater because he edifies the church-- unless the speaker in tongues interprets. In that case, Paul is not saying the one who prophesies is greater.

Follow the argument here. Paul is not treating self-edification as an evil thing. He does teach that in the church edifying others is far superior to edifying oneself.
I agree with what you have written here but the current phenomena of tongues is nothing near what is supposed to be.
 

Dino246

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I agree with what you have written here but the current phenomena of tongues is nothing near what is supposed to be.
Because, after all, you know everything there is to know about "the current phenomena of tongues" and have been present in every meeting where "tongues" have been spoken.

smh...
 

Dino246

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Tongues are miraculous but it doesn't mean the speaker doesn't know what they are talking about:

1 Cor 14:13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
The quoted verse doesn't support your assertion.
 

Noose

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Because, after all, you know everything there is to know about "the current phenomena of tongues" and have been present in every meeting where "tongues" have been spoken.

smh...
I have been there done that and i know what i'm talking about.
 

Dino246

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That doesn't answer:

1 Cor 14: 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

How can one speak intelligible words with their tongue?
Um, you might need to rethink that question, because it's something done every day all over the world by billions of people.

Do you have an example where the apostles spoke in tongues and someone interpreted or is it every time they spoke in tongues, people understood them?
You're asking me for an example of something that I haven't asserted ever happened.

Jude 1:20 is not about self edification whether it is the same Greek word used or not. Try again.
Wow. I'd like to see what you think that verse is about then.

"But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit".
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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I don't have any assertions, you can remind me, maybe i forgot.
This one:

Tongues are miraculous but it doesn't mean the speaker doesn't know what they are talking about:
Not sure why you can't see your own statements in the quotation. You do understand what an assertion is, don't you?