Do you really expect the proponents of a certain view to actually examine the shortcomings of that school of thought?
That would be like the Charismatics admitting, "Yea, we really do elevate the Holy Spirit above Jesus Christ."
A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM
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That would be like the Charismatics admitting, "Yea, we really do elevate the Holy Spirit above Jesus Christ."
They say that about Catholic seminaries too . . . but all the priests seem to recall are the traditions and papal bulls.
No, I expect you to examine what your oponent is actually saying and react to that.
Here you have the Second Helvetic Confession: https://www.ccel.org/creeds/helvetic.htm
Read it and tell me what you do not agree with and why.
Funny. I never knew squat about John Calvin, or Calvinism at all before coming to CC.
I have asked many people this question which I think reveals a lot.
Why do YOU believe that God became a human baby, but without a human father, grew up human, was tortured to death, and rose on the third day, proving His divinity, and BECAUSE YOU believe that, YOU will be with Him in Heaven for all eternity?
I have asked many people this question which I think reveals a lot.
Why do YOU believe that God became a human baby, but without a human father, grew up human, was tortured to death, and rose on the third day, proving His divinity, and BECAUSE YOU believe that, YOU will be with Him in Heaven for all eternity?
Not interested . . . for 42 years I have been reading my Bible, the Words of God . . . not confessions, the clever thoughts of men (many of whom are lost and bound to a Christless eternity.) I guess that is why I can spot a counterfeit, and you can't.
Because of the teachings of an ecclesiastical body, Calvinists deem that some are elected to reprobation. They must go to hell, and God will have pleasure in it.
If you are not interested in calvinism, stop talking about it, when you actually do not know it. Simple.
I don't understand this response. How does it answer why YOU believe?
So, by self profession you're ignorant of what it teaches, and then "imprudently" and arrogantly slam it. To top that off you condemn their souls to hell (which would include me and others here.) Looks like all the reading you've done hasn't helped you even with the rudimentary things and duties of following God.
Here are some direct quotes from John Calvin as quoted in different pieces of literature:
“The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should.” Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Ch. 23, Sect. 8
“I freely acknowledge my doctrine to be this: that Adam fell, not only by the permission of God, but by His very secret, the counsil and decree …” Calvin, On the Secret Providence of God, 267
“God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it.” Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Ch. 23, Sect. 7
“I again ask how it is that the fall of Adam involves so many nations with their infant children in eternal death without remedy unless that it so seemed meet to God? Here the most loquacious tongues must be dumb. The decree, I admit, is, dreadful; and yet it is impossible to deny that God foreknew what the end of man was to be before he made him, and foreknew, because he had so ordained by his decree.” Ibid, Book II, Ch. 23, Sect. 7
“Even the fall of Adam, and through him the fall of the race, was not by chance or accident, but was so ordained in the secret counsels of God." Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, 234
Yep. Because honestly if you actually debated a Mormon, you'd probably convert to Mormonism due to your ignorant presuppositions.
I believe in the Jesus that you posted of. I am on my way to heaven because I took God at His Word, that He loves me and now I can love Him. I did not have a man confuse me by suggesting that I may not be able to be saved because I might not be on of God's elect.
My Bible teaches me that God calls all men to come and reason together with Him, and to come and buy wine and milk, without money and without price. I saw this big door with the words, "Whosoever will may come" so I walked through and looked back and the other side of the door said, "Elect from the foundation of the world."
I am heaven bound not on my own merits, but on the merits of Jesus Christ and the efficacy of His shed Blood.
BTW yes, I do it and thats why I several times changed my theology. I always examine what I believe in. I think its a basic principle for every Christian.
Been there, done that . . . I am an ex-Mormon.
Then you should be aware of the ignorance of your statement of not having to know what Joseph Smith taught. I highly doubt you were EVER a Mormon.
Good, now we are talking about something.
First, Calvin is just one man, one of "calvinists", if you wish, so no calvinist must agree with everything Calvin said to be a calvinist.
But ok, I read what you quoted and I agree that it was God's plan that Adam will fall. I would not go with the strong words like "not only by persmission" or "with pleasure". I believe that God arranged it by permission and by circumstances and his pleasure was in the goal of the fall, not in the act of the fall.
Hey, that's great!
But it STILL doesn't answer WHY you believe what you read and heard. Others have read and heard those words yet DON"T believe.
It's good for you because now you can sidestep absolute authority and go with what makes sense to you.
Yepppppp...
And oh, the inconsistency: mocking God's electing grace and ways in one sentence, then claiming it in another.
Oh, and by the way, "the door" says on this side that God elects whom he wills. You don't happen to like that and have created your own set of rules,. which deems God as unfair. More Romans 9:20 on display.
I think you think that I am a calvinist? Otherwise, I have no idea what you are asking for. I believe what I believe because I have a "Thus saith the Lord" to back it up. I don't know how much more clear I can be. If you can clarify, that would be great.