Not By Works

[BillG]

Really, he is ruder than me?

Go for it mate.

You can do it

Even though you and I do not agree on various things.
Even at times you do my head in, and I'm sure I do your head in.
I do have to say that I do not consider you as a rude person.

 

[posthuman]

You hear what you want, not what I say.

oh?

then that isn't what you mean by 'come as you are religion' ?
are you still refusing to clarify that personal phrase of yours?

all i'm doing is asking questions, dude. 'whoever hears & puts these sayings into practice' + 'ask, seek'

could you please just say what you mean, if you can't be bothered to define your private idioms for us?

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

vss. 16-17 Israel, you suck--you are not doing the things you ought to be doing for your needy.

vs. 18 Come to me Israel, and you can find cleansing and forgiveness

vs. 19 Even though you suck right now, Israel, you can have my blessings again

vs. 20 But if you prefer to suck, I'm going to kick your tails all over the place.

 

[posthuman]

Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

there is a Way in which i am thankful the Master became angry

 

[posthuman]

I realize you were asking David... and I find this an interesting question, also: when was I saved? How can we know? We can only know we are saved when we repent and believe. Were we saved before then? God knew who were His before the foundation of the world. How else can the question be answered? I do realize also there are those who say we cannot know we are saved until the very end. I disagree with that view, and so does 1 John 5:13

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Knowing we have eternal life is the equivalent of knowing we are saved

i ask this question too:

does salvation transcend time? what is it? is it something constrained by time, in any direction?
physical life is constrained in either direction - how is eternal life different?

 

[VCO]

lol,oh,thanks for telling me I have only been a member of CC for two years longer than you.

I am talking about this TREAD, we are almost all in agreement here, and we think Scripture is the Ultimate Answer. So many of us will just answer with Scripture.

 

[iamsoandso]

I realize you were asking David... and I find this an interesting question, also: when was I saved? How can we know? We can only know we are saved when we repent and believe. Were we saved before then? God knew who were His before the foundation of the world. How else can the question be answered? I do realize also there are those who say we cannot know we are saved until the very end. I disagree with that view, and so does 1 John 5:13

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Knowing we have eternal life is the equivalent of knowing we are saved

Our Savior is the firstborn of every creature Colossians 1:15-18,,so there's no question that our Savior is not an afterthought but that before the first man was made the one to die on the cross to save him/us is his will. So Jesus our Lord did die for the sins of the whole world almost 2000 years ago and since then me and you were born and at first we didn't so much as understand we needed to be saved. As time went on though we knew we had sinned and so then knew we needed some how to be saved. Some then went about the acts of this very thing.

A human is a peculiar thing,we close our eyes and there is a spirit in there and it says things to the flesh body of us and it obeys our spirits voice. Our body is a faithful servant to our spirit in that if we say to it to sin it will obey without argument and in the same if we say to it to do good it also will.

If we say to it with our spirits voice that today it needs to get dressed because were going to have it walk down to a Church and get saved it will do it,it is a faithful servant. Then again it is a faithful servant that has always obeyed the very voice of our spirits so is it guilty or is it our spirit?

Now our Lord Jesus did some 2000 years ago save both you and me on the cross but how would you know if I believed it? Would you rather me say to you "have you been saved yet?" and talk you into saying to your body to go get saved or would you rather me explain to you that he did save you and that you are?

lol, You see one man says Jesus is my savior and he's scared to death about it and you can tell because he says to his body to go through a set of works as if he dont really believe it. But there's another man that says he saved us on the cross but instead of saying to his body to go about works, he rest.

 

[BillG]

Yes, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time rejected God's instructions and created their own. They were told to "Repent" of their lawless religion, not "come as you are". But as is the custom of religious man, they refused.

No repentance.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Don't "Come as you are)

Abraham didn't come as he was either.

Gen.
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (Don't come as you are)
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him

The Christ clearly said not to "Come as you are".

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Paul also taught the same thing.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent (Not come as you are) and turn to God,(not come as you are) and do works meet (worthy) for repentance. (not come as you are)

I think you will find Abram did come as he was.
That's why he went.
Did he have anything to repent off?

Joshua 24:2-4
2 And Joshua said to all the people, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel: Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, dwelt on the other side of the River in old times; and they served other gods. 3 Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac. 4 To Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. To Esau I gave the mountains of Seir to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt.

My guess is that Abram did not know the true God when he was called to follow him.
God called him to follow him where he was at, he accepted him.

So Abram did come as he was because God called to him as he was.
That was his repentance when he believed God is who he said he is.
And he followed him.

Did God call Paul as a repentant person or as a unrepentant person?

My guess is and my religion tells me that God accepted Paul where he was at.
No repenting needed to come to him, but repentance when revealed to him.

Does your religion and it's God disagree with my thoughts

 

[TruthTalk]

Jesus never excused the sin, but He always offers salvation without "conditions attached"
Like decon say's, aren't you the absolute "Cake Taker", praise God Jesus is the way the truth and the life.

"A pity you on judgment day"​

1) The woman at the well: John4:25,26
25) The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything.”
26) Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

2) The woman caught in adultry: John8:10,11
10) Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11) “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

3) An Invitation: Revelation22:17
17) The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; "and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life."

 

[posthuman]

Funny, the Bible clearly presents a 'come as your are' message . . .

the guests at the king's banquet were gathered and brought in under compulsion from the streets - as they were
where did their wedding garments come from?

what gifts did the shepherds bring when they came to the newborn King? what gift did they leave with?

 

[posthuman]

Is. 1:
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, (Come as you are) ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

IMO it's really disrespectful to the Word to stick your own words in it, dude. Proverbs 30:6

is 'refuse and rebel' your definition of 'come as you are religion' ?

who preaches 'refuse and rebel religion' ?
is there someone among us who refuses salvation and rebels against it?
who tries to teach others to do the same?

 

[posthuman]

I used to teach the INMATES when I was a Volunteer Chaplain, this way pertaining to the word CONFESS. "If you say that you Confess that you robbed a bank in N.Y. City, and you have never been in N.Y. City in your life; is that a Confession or just a Profession?" You know, that got the answer RIGHT every time they answered that question. Then I would go on to say, "The same is true about Confessing JESUS AS YOUR LORD. It has to have really taken place in your Heart (human spirit), before you can say it as a CONFESSION. Other wise it is only a Profession, and you have a name for that, it is 'Jail House Religion', and you can put that down as you parole and go out the door; but a TRUE CONFESSION will remain with you for the rest of your Life.

Their expression is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, the ones who can walk away and never come back to Christ, ONLY HAD "JAIL HOUSE RELIGION", which is not the Real McCoy {phony faith}.

it's good how you had a personal idiom to share, explained it, gave it context, used it to glorify God and made it clear exactly how it does so
even, succinctly

thanks!

 

[dcontroversal]

You have your religion, you are zealous for it, but I'm sticking with "ALL" the Words of God.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Keep telling yourself that drivel.....only in your mind pal.....

 

[dcontroversal]

The problem with "all the words of God" is that they are not all intended for Gentiles . . . and you often try to show that things He said to the Jew are equally applicable to the Gentile . . . they are not . . . you are wrong. How about sticking to the Words of God that are intended for you.

He cannot do that because it will equate to him walking in error.....but hey.....zealous for sure, but without knowledge!

 

[dcontroversal]

True this.

I have always wondered WHY.
And im not on some self-righteous "Ooh why are people sinning so much?" nonsense. Im talking about MYSELF. Im looking back at my life and there are SO MANY THINGS that i should of done different or leave undone completely.
I can definately recognize myself from that, either im just extra-wicked or some others can feel me on this one: Isnt it strange how when we men are growing up, we are always attracted to evil from the very beginning? Even in comic books you could see it, I was always into the most wicked characters in those comic books, the skeleton demon looking creatures. Like Venom and Carnage from spider-man. WHY wasnt I ever into something good and wholesome?

You fast-forward a bit from that and the streets are calling.... WHY wasnt I attracted to getting a wholesome christian wife, working hard for my bread?
Why was I attracted to streets and evil women?????

Im seriously asking, does ANYONE know why? And can anyone relate, or am i just extra-wicked?

Paul had the same struggle as evidenced by his words.....most overlook or sweep under the table the following truth....the more time one spends with Jesus the more wicked we see ourselves in light of his righteousness....Paul testifies to this by what he said in the following...note....the first part was in the beginning of his ministry and the last toward the end of his ministry...

a. Least of the Apostles
b. Least of the Saints
c. Chief number 1 sinner among men

He also said.....

The things i say I am going to do I do not do and the things I say I am not going to do, those things I do...and then calls himself a wretched man...ALL IN PRESENT TENSE

That is why, in my view, any and all who lift self and believe they have some grand part in gaining or keeping salvation ultimately are devaluing the ministry, work, power, and promises of Christ....

 

[dcontroversal]

The bible is clear on both issues....

a. God knew I would believe before he cast down the world
b. I was saved the day I confessed Christ as Lord and Savior by grace through faith into his death, burial and resurrection.....

 

[dcontroversal]

My God is no respecter of persons.

“Wasn’t Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated. I turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the jackals in the desert.

Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

 

[VCO]

i ask this question too:

does salvation transcend time? what is it? is it something constrained by time, in any direction?
physical life is constrained in either direction - how is eternal life different?

Salvation IS ETERNAL.

Absolutely I will find out how Different Eternal Life actually IS.

SOON AND VERY SOON!

 

[VCO]

I have to share this song with all of you,
may favorite by Jessy Dixxon:

 

[Studyman]

="BillG, post: 3740806, member: 252071"]I think you will find Abram did come as he was.
That's why he went.
Did he have anything to repent off?

My Bible says all men have sinned, and that without repentance from this sin, there is no forgiveness. Are you saying Abraham didn't ever sin? And if he did, are you saying he never repented?

Joshua 24:2-4
2 And Joshua said to all the people, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel: Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, dwelt on the other side of the River in old times; and they served other gods. 3 Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac. 4 To Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. To Esau I gave the mountains of Seir to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt.

My guess is that Abram did not know the true God when he was called to follow him.
God called him to follow him where he was at, he accepted him.

How do you know Abram didn't seek God?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Duet 4:28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

Abram's Father's house, his kindred, his country?

Would these Word's of God also be for all men, even Abraham?

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

What does God call men to do? Is it not to "Seek Him"?

So Abram did come as he was because God called to him as he was.
That was his repentance when he believed God is who he said he is.
And he followed him.

So in your religion God just didn't like Abraham's kindred, his father. He just reached his hand into a hat and brought out Abrams name. So in your religion, Grace and Mercy is by a lottery?

Did God call Paul as a repentant person or as a unrepentant person?

God also called Pharaoh for His purpose, and the serpent in the beginning. Do you preach this story erases all the Word's of God which speak of repentance?

My guess is and my religion tells me that God accepted Paul where he was at.
No repenting needed to come to him, but repentance when revealed to him.

And yet God knocked him off his horse, told him his preaching was false, took his vision away, hid him away from the Mainstream Preachers of his time for His purpose. How can you even stretch that to be "taking him as he was"?

Does your religion and it's God disagree with my thoughts

I think the God of the Bible disagrees with your religion Billy, as Paul points out;

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent (not come as they are) and turn to God, (not stay as they were) and do works meet (worthy) for repentance. (Called to change)

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Change)