(Continued - part 2)
You also seem to treat 'wrath' as a time period. Wrath has to do with anger, not a time period. If we look in I Thessalonians 5, can't we agree that the wrath here is the wrath of God, not the wrath of Satan or the enemies of the church?
That's because, the coming wrath of God is indeed a time period, which is paramount to correctly understanding end-time events. Daniel's prophecy of that last seven years will be in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem (Dan.9:24) and is that time when God will be pouring out His wrath on a Christ rejecting world. It will be the fulfillment of the long prophesied "day of the Lord" which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. All of this will take place leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age at the end of that seven years, after the 7th bowl has been poured out.
We also know that God's wrath will indeed be a specific time period, because Jesus said that it would be:
"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened."
The seven year period is divided into two 3 1/2 year periods, with the setting up of the abomination marking the middle of the seven. It is from the setting of the abomination until Christ's return 3 1/2 years later that will be the worst of that seven years and that because, that will be when the beast who comes up out of the Abyss will empower the antichrist and will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God. During the last 3 1/2 years is also when the beast will be given authority over the great tribulation saints to make war and to conquer them.
I Thessalonians 5
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Notice the contrast in the verse. There are those appointed unto wrath, and those who have salvation.
The contrast is irrelevant! Believers are not appointed to suffer any of God's wrath at any time. There is a big difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would, opposed to God's coming wrath. You seem to have a very low opinion of what Christ accomplished for us. It is the same premise as paying the penalty for our sins and meeting the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf. Once they have been paid, God does not expect another payment. In the same way, since Jesus already suffered God's wrath on our behalf, then God is no longer angry with us because His wrath against us has been satisfied completely through the wrath that Christ experienced. Understand this! Believers in the church are not appointed to suffer any wrath and therefore, we must be removed prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates that time of wrath.
Let's suppose a missionary is over in the middle east. He preaches about Jesus, and some ISIS fanatics are full of wrath, and chop his head off....in wrath. Does that mean the man was 'appointed unto wrath'? Maybe he was appointed to man's wrath or Satan's wrath, but not the kind of wrath described in the verse I just quoted.[/quote]
The wrath that we are speaking about is God's coming, unprecedented wrath. It is a specific time that will take place leading up to the Lord's return. Your example doesn't fit. If a missionary had his head cut of, it would not be because of God's wrath, but because of his faith in Christ. Big difference. What is soon coming upon this earth, will be the deliberate wrath of God on a Christ rejecting world. As Jesus said, "if those days were allowed to go on any longer than the prescribed time, no one would be left alive.
Because of your lack of understanding regarding that time of wrath, or as Isaiah put it, "the day of vengeance of our God. I would suggest doing a hard study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. These along with the plagues that the two prophets bring upon the earth is what will be taking place during that time of wrath.
Paul uses similar language here:
Ephesians 2
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
(NKJV)
The above is an inaccurate comparison, because the scripture above is speaking about the general wrath that used to rest upon us before we were believers which leads to the ultimate wrath of being separated from God, opposed to the time period of God's wrath where the majority of the earths population will be decimated and all human government dismantled, which is quickly approaching. But first, the church has to be gathered.
"whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life and the wrath of God rests upon him.
When they were sinners before they were forgiven, they were children of wrath. This is a salvation thing.
And unbelievers still are children of wrath. And there is also a time of unprecedented wrath that will be coming directly from God in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is what the majority of Revelation is all about, God's wrath. Therefore, the reference to God's wrath, is that those who are here when the Lord gathers the church, will be trapped in that last seven years and will be exposed to God's wrath. Those who are unbelievers and die before that time, their spirits will depart from their bodies and will go down into Sheol/Hades and like the rich man mentioned in Luke, will be in torment in flame until the great white throne judgment. Therefore, the unbeliever dies before that time of wrath will end up in Hades in torment. For those who remain alive when the wrath of God begins, they will suffer wrath on the earth directly from God. And if they still don't repent and receive Christ, not only will they suffer the wrath upon the earth, but the wrath after death as well.
Why would you think God is angry at the saints in the tribulation? That really does not make sense. They aren't appointed unto wrath, either. They are going to 'obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ' (again notice the contrast in the 'appointed unto wrath' verse.)
If by saying "the saints of the tribulation" you mean the great tribulation saints, God is not mad at them, but because they will not have believed prior to the church being gathered, they will be caught in that time period and will be exposed to God's wrath. That is why Jesus tells us in His word to "always be on the watch" because we don't know at what time the Lord will appear. Regarding this, He gave His disciples and especially believers who would be living right before the churches gathering, the following warning:
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
I noticed you read a lot of ideas into verses that were not in the passages. I intend to point some of those out in another post.
That's only according to you. I come to my conclusions by cross-referencing and comparing scripture, not reading into them. I don't see how you can even comment on end-time events, because you're not even aware of God's coming wrath. Like so many people, you adopt a believe and then you defend it tooth and nail, instead of considering all of the related scriptures. And before say that "you do" I would refer you back to the fact that you ignore the fact that scriptures states that we cannot go through the wrath of God, but instead you provide apologetics by getting rid of or reinterpreting/distorting God's wrath. When you read that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, that Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath and that Jesus said that he would keep us out of that time of wrath, it means
any wrath, whether the specific wrath that is coming upon the earth or the wrath after dying and suffering in Hades, as well as in the lake of fire. We are not appointed to suffer any wrath and that ag
ain because Jesus already experienced it on our behalf.
