HEAVEN IS NOT YOUR HOME!
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I think you mean living in the kingdom. Jesus assended to heaven. John was caught up to heaven. The furniture in the temple was a duplicate of what's in heaven. It's a actual place. It is in another dimension. Actually the 4th dimension if I'm not mistaken.
Satan was cast out of heaven.
In the book of Genesis man was placed in the garden called Edom. Edom is a very hard word in Hebrew to discribe. Various meanings.
Among them it means presence . So the scriptures would suggest that man was created and placed in the presence of God.
Some scholars suggest some sort of portal was opened from heaven to earth in the beginning.
To support this theroy we have Jacobs ladder, eligiahs chariot and a number of other events.
Jesus said that he goes and prepares a place for us that where he is we shall be also. The pslams tell us that the father tells the son to sit at his right hand untill his enemies are
his foot stool. God's throne is in heaven according to Isaiah.
We are to store our treasurers in heaven. I could go on but........not buying it.
Is that merely a comment, an attempt at refutation, or something else? Just posting a verse doesn't tell me what you're trying to accomplish. 
I thought the verse was self explanatory contradicting your perspective.
I have copied pasted your post #2 below Romans 8:23 so that you can see the contradiction.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Post # 2: While I can see the point you're making, some Scripture to back up your assertions would be good.
There isn't some long "process" to becoming a child (son) of God. It is spelled out clearly in John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
We are fully children of God at the point of our new birth in Christ. Conformation to Christlikeness (sanctification) is a lifelong process, but the identity as children of God is established.
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John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
I see this "...to become the sons of God..." representing a future expectation, which would then corroborate and correlate with Romans 8 describing a future expectation for the manifestation of Gods children.
I see this "...to become the sons of God..." representing a future expectation, which would then corroborate and correlate with Romans 8 describing a future expectation for the manifestation of Gods children.
There will be no heaven on this earth. This earth is going to pass away. We are going to live for ever, but it wont be on this earth. We are just pilgrims passing through.
The scripture makes it clear there will be a new Heaven and earth. This earth will be destroyed. All we can really do here is try to be a light in this dark place.
The scripture makes it clear there will be a new Heaven and earth. This earth will be destroyed. All we can really do here is try to be a light in this dark place.
This sounds like AN ATTACK FROM SATAN on one of the most fundamental teachings and beliefs of Christians.
I would suggest that since this opening line is pure nonsense, there is no need to waste time on this thread.
Looks like Christian forums are becoming more and more hotbeds of false doctrines.
I would suggest that since this opening line is pure nonsense, there is no need to waste time on this thread.
Looks like Christian forums are becoming more and more hotbeds of false doctrines.
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As you have claimed there being no process in becoming adopted by God, that it is all accomplished, I then saw this as your having an OSAS perspective.
If, however, you do believe in the process of overcoming one's natural inclinations in order to come to God, then I am in accord, as many scriptures testify to this effect.
If, however, you do believe in the process of overcoming one's natural inclinations in order to come to God, then I am in accord, as many scriptures testify to this effect.
I saw the title and was thinking more in terms of the afterlife and eschatology. There is a scripture that does not directly state it but that some people take to mean that our spirits go to heaven when we die. But our hope is the resurrection. That is what we wait for. And we await the New Earth. The Bible has a lot to say about the kingdom of heaven, which isn't the same thing as going to heaven.
Hello president,
We also have the following scripture as a promise from the Lord that He was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for all believers and that He would be coming back to get us and take us back to the Father's house:
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
Since the Father's house is in heaven and Jesus went there to prepare rooms (dwelling places) for us, His promise is then to "come back" and take us to those dwelling places which are in the Father's house, which are in heaven.
The only obvious conclusion, is that since Jesus has yet to fulfill that promise, that He will be coming back for all believer's, His bride. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of His return:
"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
We also have the following scripture as a promise from the Lord that He was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for all believers and that He would be coming back to get us and take us back to the Father's house:
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
Since the Father's house is in heaven and Jesus went there to prepare rooms (dwelling places) for us, His promise is then to "come back" and take us to those dwelling places which are in the Father's house, which are in heaven.
The only obvious conclusion, is that since Jesus has yet to fulfill that promise, that He will be coming back for all believer's, His bride. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of His return:
"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
I prefer the KJV "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. "
This is one of the very few verses people can point to to hint that believers may go to heaven, this and the absent from the body verse. If we look at Paul's writings, he does not say anything about going to heaven when Jesus returns, bodily, at the resurrection. Speaking of the resurrection in I Corinthians 15, he says they that are Christ's will be made alive 'at His coming', and elsewhere that the man of sin will be destroyed at the brightness of His coming. The living saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air with the dead in Christ in I Thessalonians. In Revelation, the beast, which many interpret to be the man of sin, is dealt with at the end of the book. Presumably the church is here with Christ at that time.
But at the end of the book, the city descends to the new earth. The church is on the new earth with the Lamb.
Notice he does not say 'in heaven.' If Jesus is coming back to earth, why would we place Him in heaven after this event? In II Thessalonians 1, He comes back while the church is still here, giving the church rest, and executing vengence on them that know not God.
This is one of the very few verses people can point to to hint that believers may go to heaven, this and the absent from the body verse. If we look at Paul's writings, he does not say anything about going to heaven when Jesus returns, bodily, at the resurrection. Speaking of the resurrection in I Corinthians 15, he says they that are Christ's will be made alive 'at His coming', and elsewhere that the man of sin will be destroyed at the brightness of His coming. The living saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air with the dead in Christ in I Thessalonians. In Revelation, the beast, which many interpret to be the man of sin, is dealt with at the end of the book. Presumably the church is here with Christ at that time.
But at the end of the book, the city descends to the new earth. The church is on the new earth with the Lamb.
Notice he does not say 'in heaven.' If Jesus is coming back to earth, why would we place Him in heaven after this event? In II Thessalonians 1, He comes back while the church is still here, giving the church rest, and executing vengence on them that know not God.
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Hey! Dean... PTL, forever and ever!
To me: Heaven is New Jerusalem, which is the mother of us all, (Gal 4:26, 27) with a length, width and height that is comparable to the distance of Houston to New York; which is so high, that we'll have to have a new Earth that is a lot bigger than this one to support it. Its where the Father dwells in unapproachable light upon a great white throne that sits under an emerald rainbow and where the gold of its streets and buildings are made of pure gold that turns transparent when one looks toward the Father's direction. The Lord's presence will be the light of the whole world, even on the far side. For now, New Jerusalem is in the third heaven which is above the physical universe, just as space is above the first heaven, which I consider to be the Earth's atmosphere. Like New Jerusalem, the new heaven and the new earth will be eternal. One might even call New Jerusalem, the eternal city of light. Only a very few things will transition from this earth to the new heaven and the new earth, and that will be the Lord, angels, the faithful in their resurrection bodies, and the word of God. We'll learn to know the Lord as fully as he knows us and we'll dwell in the house of the Lord forever!
Maranatha!
To me: Heaven is New Jerusalem, which is the mother of us all, (Gal 4:26, 27) with a length, width and height that is comparable to the distance of Houston to New York; which is so high, that we'll have to have a new Earth that is a lot bigger than this one to support it. Its where the Father dwells in unapproachable light upon a great white throne that sits under an emerald rainbow and where the gold of its streets and buildings are made of pure gold that turns transparent when one looks toward the Father's direction. The Lord's presence will be the light of the whole world, even on the far side. For now, New Jerusalem is in the third heaven which is above the physical universe, just as space is above the first heaven, which I consider to be the Earth's atmosphere. Like New Jerusalem, the new heaven and the new earth will be eternal. One might even call New Jerusalem, the eternal city of light. Only a very few things will transition from this earth to the new heaven and the new earth, and that will be the Lord, angels, the faithful in their resurrection bodies, and the word of God. We'll learn to know the Lord as fully as he knows us and we'll dwell in the house of the Lord forever!
Maranatha!