Why Jesus is NOT coming soon

[Absolutely]

Trying to herd people into salvation is what the Catholic Church has done down through the ages. The result: Death on a large scale. Europeans that did not conform were slaughtered. Next, the crusades to the Middle East: considered dismal failures but more death. Evangelize Middle and South America, wiping out whole civilizations of indigenous people. God didn't really expect us to turn the world into Christians. He just meant for us to witness about Christ:

Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

A witness is just that. It can be for you or against you. Antichrist got into mainstream Christianity and perverted the gospel and what God was doing with mankind. Mainstream Christianity has no idea of God's plan of salvation.
View attachment 188819

I have seen hundreds, if not thousands get saved. Mostly by preaching.
The outward sign is a changed life.
Some are so radically saved they are almost unrecognizable.
I saw a witch get saved . she was one of them that you could not recognize.
About a month ago i saw a lesbian get saved in my church. She came several times and was convicted by the preaching.

What a shame you dont like those wonderful evangelists.

Uh,btw,the evangelists job is to preach/speak. They are CALLED Into it.
That is why they can not be silenced.
It is an office. Heaven ordained and equipped them.
I am not an evangelist. My calling is elsewhere. But i respect and am thankful for their calling and ministry.
I don't understand the blanket animosity towards them???

 

[Absolutely]

The events of Matt. 24 parallel with Luke 17. This has nothing to do with a rapture.

Luke 17:34-37 "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

This simply points to a mass kill. The vultures feeding on those taken. The people left behind are not righteous, but they will be allowed into the millennial kingdom. God will have 144,000 young virgins with the HS, to not be transformed at Christ's coming. They will be planted into their tribes allotted land (see Eze. 48).

Ok. There are other verses.
That is WHY you are wrong.
Not me just guessing, but verses testifying aginst what you believe.
Take any one concept. And play it out.
Gather the verses OPPOSING your interpretation.
That is why i see the error of your view.

 

[Endoscopy]

The vast majority of people who call themselves Christians believe that Jesus could come any second, any minute, any hour, any day, any week, any month. I disagree and here is why.

YOU are not ready. And when I say YOU I don't mean you as an individual, I mean you as part of the universal church from which emerges the Bride of Christ.

What do we see when we look at the church today?

First we see division. Denominations are in competition with each other based on doctrines. They fail to unite to influence towns and cities and states and countries with the gospel. Denominations and doctrinal disagreements are Satan's greatest tool to keep the church divided.

Next we see sin. Yes, the church is full of the same sins found in the world. No wonder the world mocks the church when it is full of the same sins it judges the world for committing.

Another big problem is that people who think of themselves as saints are living the same way as sinners. It's every man for themself and keeping up with the Jonses. "Christian" life is all about trading up to a newer and better and more expensive home or car or cell phone or LED TV or etc. It certainly isn't about sharing all things and not seeking possessions and the pleasures they bring.

Finally the church is utterly failing to realize its earthly responsibility to show the world what life in and with God is all about. For God so loved the world that He sent his Son, Jesus, to save it. This is the ultimate task of Jesus, i.e. to save this world, and the plan is to do this using the church.

Jesus is not coming back to marry a dirty slut lying in a gutter cowering in fear of persecution and begging to be rescued. He is returning to marry a glorious Bride who is standing tall wearing dazzling robes of righteousness which represent good works. She is an overcomer and a conqueror. She is without spot (sinless) and without wrinkle. This word wrinkle comes from a Greek verb meaning to rescue and with the prefix "a" means not needing to be rescued. Wrinkle is a terrible translation.

I believe it will be several years before Jesus can turn His church around and get it headed in the right direction. This will be the reason for the big worldwide economic collapse that's coming. He has to shake up the world and especially those who claim to follow Him.

You have several problems in your discussion.
First
You ignore the fact that the early elders between 212 and 500 created the creeds that define what a Christian must believe. Anything outside of the creeds is to agree to disagree. A lot of diverse opinions existed at that time and continues to this day. The result is the variety of gospel preaching denominations.

Second
The big protestant denominations were taken over by secular ministers and Gary North wrote a book called Crossed Fingers that documented Presbyterian USA in 1932. Only the sub denominations are still preaching the gospel message.

Third
Everything is going according God's plan. This falling away was prophecied.

Fourth
Israel currently is preparing to build the third temple on the excavated site of the first 2 temples. That is where the abomination that causes desolation will occur.

 

[Absolutely]

There aready is a remnant of believers.
Spotless and pure . the bride.
The 5 wise virgins.
".... But PRAY that you be counted worthy to escape,and stand before the son of God"
Pray to be counted as one of the wise.

 

[Absolutely]

Here's what I see. The REASON His disciples (in Matt24:3) asked Him the specific question regarding "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (and His response is what follows) is because He had ALREADY spoken with them about that very thing, in Matt13:30,39,40,49-50. I do believe the contexts are the same (determining who goes in to "the age [singular] to come" aka the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, i.e. His "RETURN" [for "RETURN" see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (see the parallel??) and Lk19:12,15,17,19 (see the parallel??)]). None of this is at the END of the MK [GWTj] (and none of this pertains to our Rapture either, by the way).

Re read vs 39- 43
Notice " thrown into furnace of fire"
You are off on your interpretation. It does not fit.
It could not be more plain. It is AFTER the mil.
It even says " angels gather out of his kingdom"
The kingdom is ALREADY set up and running. Obviously after the mil.

 

[deardean2]

It is hard to believe in the warning of the Christ if one has been convinced that they are already immortal, already saved, and that much of God's instruction is against them, a burden created to keep them blind and in prison. Like I said, I can only show the warnings, I can't make a person have Faith in the God that created them.

Good point.

Prophets are sent by God with 2 basic purposes --- correction and direction. Together these are a warning. Through prophets God tells His people where they are at and where He wants them to be. People don't want to be corrected. This is why they kill the prophets of God, including the greatest of prophets --- Jesus Christ.

Today prophets are non-existent in mainline churches.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Re read vs 39- 43
Notice " thrown into furnace of fire"
You are off on your interpretation. It does not fit.
It could not be more plain. It is AFTER the mil.
It even says " angels gather out of his kingdom"
The kingdom is ALREADY set up and running. Obviously after the mil.

Here's what Revelation 11 has to say about the events surrounding the sounding of the 7th Trumpet [/3rd Woe] (which I see as taking place approximately 3/4 of the way through the 7 yrs / 70th Week [NOT at the END (or AFTER it)]... with still the 7 Vials yet to occur before His Second Coming to the earth [those during the last approx. 1/4 of the 7 yrs / 70th Week]):

Revelation 11:15-19 [blb] -

The Seventh Trumpet

15 And the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were great voices in heaven, saying:
“The kingdom of the world has become that of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign to the ages of the ages.”
16 And the twenty-four elders sitting on their thrones before God fell upon their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give thanks to You, Lord God Almighty,
the One being and who was,
that You have taken [perfect indicative active] Your great power
and have begun to reign [aorist].
18 And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and to give the reward to Your servants, the prophets,
and to the saints,
and to those fearing Your name,
the small and the great,
and to destroy those who are destroying the earth.”
19 And the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.


verse 15 - https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/11-15.htm


I believe Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13] at the time He opens the first SEAL [Rev4-5] ("You have taken [perfect indicative active] your great power and have begun to reign [aorist]..." ^ ), so I see no problem with the angels "gathering out of his kingdom" at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth (well after the 7th Trumpet), as I said.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Re read vs 39- 43
Notice " thrown into furnace of fire"
You are off on your interpretation. It does not fit.
It could not be more plain. It is AFTER the mil.
It even says " angels gather out of his kingdom"
The kingdom is ALREADY set up and running. Obviously after the mil.

Um, that is the separation of the sheep and the goats and that takes place when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. The kingdom that the angels are gathering out of is the millennial kingdom on earth.

When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, he sends out His angels and they will go and gather the weeds first (one taken) and they will be killed by that double-edged sword which proceeds from the Lord's mouth. After that, the angels will go throughout the earth and gather the wheat who will enter into the millennial kingdom and will repopulate the earth along with the remnant of Israel.

 

[Absolutely]

Here's what Revelation 11 has to say about the events surrounding the sounding of the 7th Trumpet [/3rd Woe] (which I see as taking place approximately 3/4 of the way through the 7 yrs / 70th Week [NOT at the END (or AFTER it)]... with still the 7 Vials yet to occur before His Second Coming to the earth [those during the last approx. 1/4 of the 7 yrs / 70th Week]):

Revelation 11:15-19 [blb] -
The Seventh Trumpet

15 And the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were great voices in heaven, saying:
“The kingdom of the world has become that of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign to the ages of the ages.”
16 And the twenty-four elders sitting on their thrones before God fell upon their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give thanks to You, Lord God Almighty,
the One being and who was,
that You have taken [perfect indicative active] Your great power
and have begun to reign [aorist].
18 And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and to give the reward to Your servants, the prophets,
and to the saints,
and to those fearing Your name,
the small and the great,
and to destroy those who are destroying the earth.”
19 And the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.


verse 15 - https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/11-15.htm


I believe Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13] at the time He opens the first SEAL [Rev4-5] ("You have taken [perfect indicative active] your great power and have begun to reign [aorist]..." ^ ), so I see no problem with the angels "gathering out of his kingdom" at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth (well after the 7th Trumpet), as I said.

I am afraid i am not following you.
You seem to think the dead are judged some other place besides the GWTJ.

Do you understand that there are 2 separate kingdoms set up after the second coming?
...and that one is the mil kingdom
The second being eternal where satan is destroyed, instead of chained?

 

[Absolutely]

Um, that is the separation of the sheep and the goats and that takes place when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. The kingdom that the angels are gathering out of is the millennial kingdom on earth.

When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, he sends out His angels and they will go and gather the weeds first (one taken) and they will be killed by that double-edged sword which proceeds from the Lord's mouth. After that, the angels will go throughout the earth and gather the wheat who will enter into the millennial kingdom and will repopulate the earth along with the remnant of Israel.

Yes they are gathered out of the mil kingdom
.....for the Gwtj.

As i understand it.
Which in part explains why the " one taken one left" is not the wicked taken,but the rapture

 

[Studyman]

Good point.

Prophets are sent by God with 2 basic purposes --- correction and direction. Together these are a warning. Through prophets God tells His people where they are at and where He wants them to be. People don't want to be corrected. This is why they kill the prophets of God, including the greatest of prophets --- Jesus Christ.

Today prophets are non-existent in mainline churches.

Well said, a truth that is hard to accept.

But I would go a little further if I may. The Mainline churches have always been against the God of the Bible. If we read what the Prophets have told us, we will see it has always been those who claimed belief in the same God as we, that are the enemy of God's people. Who have the warnings and examples always been about? Who killed Abel? His "Christian" brother. Who looked on the nakedness of Noah? His own son. Who wanted to stone Caleb. The congregation of the Lord. Who hung Jeremiah in a septic tank? God own people. Who tried to kill David? His own King. Who was it that yelled "Crucify Him"? The same folks He came to save. Who stoned Stephen to death? The Mainstream Preachers of his time.

Each time is wasn't the Atheists or heathens that plagued God's People, it was people who claimed to love the same God. Were they just evil people?

Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

I believe the Prophet Jeremiah, therefore we are all wicked. So why did these things happen?

I think the answer is in the very beginning of His Word.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Is the woman not representative of the Bride of Christ? His church?

Rev. 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Is this not the "woman" who would eventually bring us the Christ?

So the dragon spoke to this woman, but it didn't use it's own words, it used some of the Word's of God. "Hath God not said". I think this is important.

And what was the first thing the serpent deceived Eve with?

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The very first lie the serpent, using some, not all of God's Words, deceived the "woman" with was "you are saved". You are already immortal, you are already all set. You shall surely not die.

And what was the next thing the dragon deceived the woman with?

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject God's Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The next deception was to convince the "woman, bride, church" that God's instructions were keeping her blind, burdened. They were against her, not in her best interest. That God doesn't want her to be "Free", that God is lying to her. But that if she listens to this "other voice", and rejects His Commandment, only then can she be free, only then will she "SEE" and be like God.

This theme runs through the entire Bible as the great prophet Jeremiah tells us.

Jer. 6:
13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

I could go on and on because both old and new testaments are full of such warnings.

Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Remember, the perfect deception is one that looks like the truth.

Good for you DD2. God is faithful to bring you into His Truth if you are willing to accept the "Direction and correction" from His Holy Prophets.

Good for you.

 

[LPT]

The vast majority of people who call themselves Christians believe that Jesus could come any second, any minute, any hour, any day, any week, any month. I disagree and here is why.

YOU are not ready. And when I say YOU I don't mean you as an individual, I mean you as part of the universal church from which emerges the Bride of Christ.

What do we see when we look at the church today?

First we see division. Denominations are in competition with each other based on doctrines. They fail to unite to influence towns and cities and states and countries with the gospel. Denominations and doctrinal disagreements are Satan's greatest tool to keep the church divided.

Next we see sin. Yes, the church is full of the same sins found in the world. No wonder the world mocks the church when it is full of the same sins it judges the world for committing.

Another big problem is that people who think of themselves as saints are living the same way as sinners. It's every man for themself and keeping up with the Jonses. "Christian" life is all about trading up to a newer and better and more expensive home or car or cell phone or LED TV or etc. It certainly isn't about sharing all things and not seeking possessions and the pleasures they bring.

Finally the church is utterly failing to realize its earthly responsibility to show the world what life in and with God is all about. For God so loved the world that He sent his Son, Jesus, to save it. This is the ultimate task of Jesus, i.e. to save this world, and the plan is to do this using the church.

Jesus is not coming back to marry a dirty slut lying in a gutter cowering in fear of persecution and begging to be rescued. He is returning to marry a glorious Bride who is standing tall wearing dazzling robes of righteousness which represent good works. She is an overcomer and a conqueror. She is without spot (sinless) and without wrinkle. This word wrinkle comes from a Greek verb meaning to rescue and with the prefix "a" means not needing to be rescued. Wrinkle is a terrible translation.

I believe it will be several years before Jesus can turn His church around and get it headed in the right direction. This will be the reason for the big worldwide economic collapse that's coming. He has to shake up the world and especially those who claim to follow Him.

Hmmm, hahaha...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I am afraid i am not following you.
You seem to think the dead are judged some other place besides the GWTJ.

Well, since I don't think that Revelation 11 is referring to the GWTj, I tend to believe that "the dead" here means the "living[alive], dead/unsaved" existing (on the earth) at the time referred to in this context (at the 7th Trumpet/3rd Woe/[1st Vial], i.e. the last 1/4 of the 7-yrs/70th-Wk.)

Yes I do believe "judgment" starts at the first SEAL, so therefore ppl are being "judged" all through the 7-yr/70th-Wk, and even after it ends … so I have no problem with Rev11 saying "the dead [unsaved]" are judged (or are being judged) in this context (not being the GWTj, but the 7th Trumpet/3rd Woe/[1st Vial]).

 

[Absolutely]

Good point.

Prophets are sent by God with 2 basic purposes --- correction and direction. Together these are a warning. Through prophets God tells His people where they are at and where He wants them to be. People don't want to be corrected. This is why they kill the prophets of God, including the greatest of prophets --- Jesus Christ.

Today prophets are non-existent in mainline churches.

There is a verse " the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
The church is a church of power. The baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Again, the epistles were written by H S baptised tongue talking believers, to other H S baptised tongue talking believers.
Without the overflowing abundant Spirit of God, the 5 wise with extra oil, the one saturated in the OT law ( and prophets )becomes mean spirited.
Myself included
And no, the prophets are not gone.
A prophet is a seer,amoung other things. They see things. They basically see most everything " inverted". Their perspective is different.
One way to tell if you are one is that very concept.
Many are called into the prophetic.
Not many accept, because it has always been a bitter pill.

 

[Absolutely]

Btw, most every church has a remnant.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Taken in 1 thes 4 is what we normally label as the raprure.
[…]
Re read it in mat 24
THE VERY NEXT VERSE. Is "watch and wait"
The very next verse.
The rapture = watch and wait.
You have the wicked watching and waiting.
You are wrong on it friend.

1 Thessalonians [writings and instructions] is to, for, and about "the Church which is His body" (of whom "the Rapture" SOLELY pertains--not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints).

In 1Th5:9-10, it says this (re: "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"):

10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [same word as in verse 6] or [whether] we might sleep [same word as in verse 6! (NOT meaning 'DEATH' here!)], we may live together with [*G4862 - syn - denoting 'UNION' with] Him.


[Matt25:10 uses *"with [G3326 - accompanying] Him" by contrast, and they accompany Him into the "FEAST" (the earthly MK, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth)]

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yes they are gathered out of the mil kingdom
.....for the Gwtj.

As i understand it.
Which in part explains why the " one taken one left" is not the wicked taken,but the rapture

That has no bearing on it. When Christ returns to the earth to end the age (Matt.13:24:30, 24:31) he sends out His angels and the "first" gather the weeds, which are the "one taken."

The other fact is that, the "one taken" group is being compared to those who are taken in the flood. So the comparison is wicked to wicked.

To be clear, the "one taken" is not referring to the gathering of the church (rapture). The first problem with that is that it would have put the church through the entire period of God's wrath which cannot and will not take place, because Jesus has already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Then there are the scriptures that tell us that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that Jesus rescues us from said wrath. Anyone who thinks that God is going to protect the church during the time of His wrath has not understood the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, not to mention the fact that the church is never even mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yes they are gathered out of the mil kingdom
.....for the Gwtj.

As i understand it.
Which in part explains why the " one taken one left" is not the wicked taken,but the rapture

Btw, the sheep and goats are not gathered out of the millennial kingdom, but are gathered when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, which takes place at the on-set of the millennial period. To be clear, the separation of the sheep and goats takes place at the beginning of the thousand years, not at the end.

 

[Absolutely]

That has no bearing on it. When Christ returns to the earth to end the age (Matt.13:24:30, 24:31) he sends out His angels and the "first" gather the weeds, which are the "one taken."

The other fact is that, the "one taken" group is being compared to those who are taken in the flood. So the comparison is wicked to wicked.

To be clear, the "one taken" is not referring to the gathering of the church (rapture). The first problem with that is that it would have put the church through the entire period of God's wrath which cannot and will not take place, because Jesus has already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Then there are the scriptures that tell us that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that Jesus rescues us from said wrath. Anyone who thinks that God is going to protect the church during the time of His wrath has not understood the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, not to mention the fact that the church is never even mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath.

2 separate stories in mat 13 have a separation and wicked thrown into furnaces of fire.
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


furnace of fire/lake of fire.

What say you?

oh,and in the fish analogy the good fish are dealt with first (which could be also with the wheat,if you look at it openly)

 

[Absolutely]

1 Thessalonians [writings and instructions] is to, for, and about "the Church which is His body" (of whom "the Rapture" SOLELY pertains--not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints).

In 1Th5:9-10, it says this (re: "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"):

10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [same word as in verse 6] or [whether] we might sleep [same word as in verse 6! (NOT meaning 'DEATH' here!)], we may live together with [*G4862 - syn - denoting 'UNION' with] Him.


[Matt25:10 uses *"with [G3326 - accompanying] Him" by contrast, and they accompany Him into the "FEAST" (the earthly MK, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth)]

Yep. I agree