Why Jesus is NOT coming soon

[pottersclay]

“For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”

 

[OneFaith]

The vast majority of people who call themselves Christians believe that Jesus could come any second, any minute, any hour, any day, any week, any month. I disagree and here is why.

YOU are not ready. And when I say YOU I don't mean you as an individual, I mean you as part of the universal church from which emerges the Bride of Christ.

What do we see when we look at the church today?

First we see division. Denominations are in competition with each other based on doctrines. They fail to unite to influence towns and cities and states and countries with the gospel. Denominations and doctrinal disagreements are Satan's greatest tool to keep the church divided.

Next we see sin. Yes, the church is full of the same sins found in the world. No wonder the world mocks the church when it is full of the same sins it judges the world for committing.

Another big problem is that people who think of themselves as saints are living the same way as sinners. It's every man for themself and keeping up with the Jonses. "Christian" life is all about trading up to a newer and better and more expensive home or car or cell phone or LED TV or etc. It certainly isn't about sharing all things and not seeking possessions and the pleasures they bring.

Finally the church is utterly failing to realize its earthly responsibility to show the world what life in and with God is all about. For God so loved the world that He sent his Son, Jesus, to save it. This is the ultimate task of Jesus, i.e. to save this world, and the plan is to do this using the church.

Jesus is not coming back to marry a dirty slut lying in a gutter cowering in fear of persecution and begging to be rescued. He is returning to marry a glorious Bride who is standing tall wearing dazzling robes of righteousness which represent good works. She is an overcomer and a conqueror. She is without spot (sinless) and without wrinkle. This word wrinkle comes from a Greek verb meaning to rescue and with the prefix "a" means not needing to be rescued. Wrinkle is a terrible translation.

I believe it will be several years before Jesus can turn His church around and get it headed in the right direction. This will be the reason for the big worldwide economic collapse that's coming. He has to shake up the world and especially those who claim to follow Him.

Like you said, the vast majority are not living like christians. This number will only get bigger not smaller. Jesus is coming back for the minority, not the majority. Just because someone is called to be a christian and wears God's name does not mean they are saved. The bible says many are called, but only few are chosen...

Take a look at the number saved from the old testament- Revelation says 144,000. How many of God's people were called out of Egypt in the old testament? 600,000- and that isn't even counting women and children yet- which would at least double that number. 600,000 itself is a much greater number than 144,000- which means that not everyone who called themselves an Israélite was saved- just like not everyone who calls themselves a christian is saved. Do you know how many of the 600,000+ original people were saved from Egypt? Two- Joshua and Caleb.

Many are called, but few are chosen. Jesus is not coming back for the majority called, He's coming back for the chosen.

 

[MichaelOwen]

Ever since Christ ascended into heaven, we have been living in the last days, a grace period in which those of us called by Christ are to spread the gospel and His word to as many as possible before He returns for His bride, which will be those chosen by Him (the church). No man knows the day nor the hour, not the angels in heaven nor the Son of Man, but the Father only, and we are called to vigilant and ready at any time, for we know not when the master of the house cometh!

 

[pottersclay]

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Blain]

The op does make several valid points about the body as a whole but that by no means limits when he comes, he is going to come whether we are all ready or not

 

[Studyman]

Oh brother.
I suppose you do not understand the work of the evangelist.
No,the evangelist has not the power to reach into a mans spirit and magically change his heart. That is a work of heaven. I am surprised that has to be taught to you.
The evangelist is ONLY A MOUTHPIECE.
As such he only plays a part in salvation. Of course it is God "adding to his church."
So your dire warning is ridiculous
You think men being discipled is some horrible dynamic that sends heaven screaming in terror?

No, I don't think that at all. I just believe everything His Word says, including what you call His "ridiculous warnings".

It is hard to believe in the warning of the Christ if one has been convinced that they are already immortal, already saved, and that much of God's instruction is against them, a burden created to keep them blind and in prison. Like I said, I can only show the warnings, I can't make a person have Faith in the God that created them.

 

[Absolutely]

I have also heard many preachers say the kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are completely different things.... But then there is this:

Matthew 19:23-24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

BOOM!

You are probably right.

 

[Absolutely]

LOL.

Billy Graham the ecumenical preacher, loved by the world. Everyone and their mother was at his funeral, and everyone praised him. Had he been a real preacher (not into the ecumenical trash that he was promoting) he would have been cursed by the world and they would have been glad he was gone.
This guy was so ecumenical in fact he had catholics in his "revivals" and the catholic leaning ones in the crowd were led to talk to a catholic priest!

Yeah, what a blow that was.

He is gone, but another one will come.

I just picked one. There are others.
Nit picking a flawed example,( in your opinion) doesn't change the fact that those just sitting on salvation will answer for their foolishness.
Pssst..... Parable of the talents.

 

[Absolutely]

In the context of the Flood, we can also apply "taken" to Noah and the occupants of the Ark, while the ones "left" would be all who perished in the Flood. They were "left behind" and then "taken" by the Flood waters.

Your interpretation is complex, whereas this is simple given the exhortation to watchful. Furthermore, if this was all about the wicked, we would NOT have this exhortation for the Church right there -- Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. "Your Lord" is only applicable to Christians. And we see this in the following verses, referring to the servants of Christ.

As to the body and the eagles, there are various interpretations, and in the end that is a rather enigmatic statement. Some have suggested that the body is the Church, the Body of Christ, and the eagles are metaphors for Christians who will be taken up to meet the Lord in the air. Christians will be gathered together at the Rapture.

Could be.
What is striking though, is that both noah and the wicked are dealt with immediately.
Basically both are initiated their portion PREFLOOD/PRETRIB.

You are right though about the warning to watch and be ready.
Those thar say the wicked are the ones raptured in mat 24, need to re read that.
They have the righteous not taken,but left behind preflood/pretrib

 

[Ahwatukee]

Could be.
What is striking though, is that both noah and the wicked are dealt with immediately.
Basically both are initiated their portion PREFLOOD/PRETRIB.

You are right though about the warning to watch and be ready.
Those thar say the wicked are the ones raptured in mat 24, need to re read that.
They have the righteous not taken,but left behind preflood/pretrib

Hello Absolutely,

Just curious, who said that the wicked are raptured in Matt.24? In my previous posts I have made it clear, that the "one taken" group are the wicked, who will be alive and in their mortal bodies when they are taken.

First of all, the "one taken" group is being compared to the wicked who were taken away in the flood.

When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, according to Matt.13:30, He sends His angels out to first gather the wicked, those who will have made it through the wrath of God alive. The angels will bring them to where Jesus is coming down to the area of Armageddon and they will all be killed by the double-edge sword which will proceed from the Lord's mouth, which is figurate representing the word of God.

They have the righteous not taken, but left behind preflood/pretrib

"No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.”

The weeds are synonymous with the "one taken" group. The wheat is the righteous who will enter into the millennial period.

 

[dcontroversal]

Like you said, the vast majority are not living like christians. This number will only get bigger not smaller. Jesus is coming back for the minority, not the majority. Just because someone is called to be a christian and wears God's name does not mean they are saved. The bible says many are called, but only few are chosen...

Take a look at the number saved from the old testament- Revelation says 144,000. How many of God's people were called out of Egypt in the old testament? 600,000- and that isn't even counting women and children yet- which would at least double that number. 600,000 itself is a much greater number than 144,000- which means that not everyone who called themselves an Israélite was saved- just like not everyone who calls themselves a christian is saved. Do you know how many of the 600,000+ original people were saved from Egypt? Two- Joshua and Caleb.

Many are called, but few are chosen. Jesus is not coming back for the majority called, He's coming back for the chosen.

The above analogy lacks any creedance...nor does the bible teach what you imply about the 144,000 and or even the 600,000 which was ONLY THE MEN OF WAR OVER 20...man...get some facts will ya.....

 

[Absolutely]

Hello Absolutely,

Just curious, who said that the wicked are raptured in Matt.24? In my previous posts I have made it clear, that the "one taken" group are the wicked, who will be alive and in their mortal bodies when they are taken.

First of all, the "one taken" group is being compared to the wicked who were taken away in the flood.

When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, according to Matt.13:30, He sends His angels out to first gather the wicked, those who will have made it through the wrath of God alive. The angels will bring them to where Jesus is coming down to the area of Armageddon and they will all be killed by the double-edge sword which will proceed from the Lord's mouth, which is figurate representing the word of God.



"No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.”

The weeds are synonymous with the "one taken" group. The wheat is the righteous who will enter into the millennial period.

Taken in 1 thes 4 is what we normally label as the raprure.
We see other raptures ,taken suddenly,in mat 24 and rev 14.
You are definately saying there is a rapture of the wicked before the gt.
The one taken,one left in mat 24 is not an apocolyptic setting.
They are working jobs.
You never addressed my points on why those taken can not possibly be the wicked. Nor does the gather them up first language fit. You are saying that the wheat is not harvested but only tares,with the wheat cut afterwards.
Nope,they are cut TOGETHER,THEN SEPARATED.
To imply that the two different plants are cut separately invokes yet ANOTHER impossibility. Two plants touching each other. Would take a year to accomplish that with some scissors.
They are most definately harvested together.
The field master FORBADE them to be cut separately.
Re read it. It was forbidden.
No way is mat 24 rapture the wheat and tares.
Ok,all those concepts of mat 24 being wicked taken do not fly.
Re read it in mat 24
THE VERY NEXT VERSE. Is "watch and wait"
The very next verse.
The rapture = watch and wait.
You have the wicked watching and waiting.
You are wrong on it friend.

 

[Absolutely]

No, I don't think that at all. I just believe everything His Word says, including what you call His "ridiculous warnings".

It is hard to believe in the warning of the Christ if one has been convinced that they are already immortal, already saved, and that much of God's instruction is against them, a burden created to keep them blind and in prison. Like I said, I can only show the warnings, I can't make a person have Faith in the God that created them.

Didn't say that.
YOUR warning is rediculous. As if evangelizing is some threat to the kingdom.
Your position of sitting on your salvation is pretty awkward.
Read the sins of omission Jesus WARNED about ,since you are a warning centered believer.
Hmmmmm....looks like some are cast out over works.
James says faith with out works is dead.
Read the story of the good Samaritan.
You can not escape it.
You are "saved to do" = work
Not ; "do to be saved"
Religion says "do"....(to be saved)
Jesus says "done" ( doesn't mean sit on salvation)

 

[Absolutely]

I believe only the second half of the 7 years is known as "the GREAT tribulation" (rather than calling all 7 years the GT, as you seem to be).

But besides this one minor difference, then it seems you and I agree at least on this point.


I'm just saying that Matthew 24:36,37-51 is not backtracking to tell of events occurring before "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" which I believe START at the FIRST SEAL [that is, Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'a certain one' " EQUALS the ARRIVAL of the man of sin [i.e. "be revealed"; "whose coming" 2Th2:9a/Dan9:27a(26)] EQUALS the INITAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 at the ARRIVAL of the DOTL time period]" EQUALS when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Rev4-5; Isa3:13], and "the Church which is His body" (ONE BODY--whole!) has already been "caught up" at "The Departure *FIRST* " (before the "DOTL" and "man of sin" ARRIVE [at SEAL #1 / INITIAL BP])]


What I'm not "getting" is why you think *I* am saying that an event at the time of His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19 and the Matt24:36-41 etc thing] would be considered a "prejudgment"??

I see three gatherings of the wicked.
One is to Armageddon
Another rev 14 ( which is most likely the aforementioned)
Another is wheat and tares,which is AFTER the millineum.

 

[Studyman]

Didn't say that.
YOUR warning is rediculous. As if evangelizing is some threat to the kingdom.
Your position of sitting on your salvation is pretty awkward.
Read the sins of omission Jesus WARNED about ,since you are a warning centered believer.
Hmmmmm....looks like some are cast out over works.
James says faith with out works is dead.
Read the story of the good Samaritan.
You can not escape it.
You are "saved to do" = work
Not ; "do to be saved"
Religion says "do"....(to be saved)
Jesus says "done" ( doesn't mean sit on salvation)

Matt. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Just because a man preaches with a Bible in their hands doesn't make them righteous, or sent from God. I am not sitting on salvation, I am "enduring to the end" in Faith and Hope of Salvation. And sharing what He has shown me through His Word. This is why I'm on this forum.

I don't believe in a religion which transgresses the Commandments of God by their own man made traditions. I don't believe the Christ condones creating images of Him in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model, and then create "Feasts unto the Lord" in worship of this image.

I don't believe the Christ condones rejecting or "Omitting" any of His Father's instructions. So even though this huge religious path is followed by "many", has built gigantic building and churches in His Name, and even though they feed the poor, and do many other wonderful works, all in His Name, this doesn't mean I should reject much of God's Word and follow them or further their religious doctrines, many of which are counter to God's Word..

I fear "many" have been convinced, as was the Mainstream church of Christ's time, that they are free to create their own religion, their own image of God, their own religious "High Days" and "omit" much of the instructions of God.

All prophesied, all warned about, and examples given for us in His Word, for our admonition.

Man is not a threat to His Kingdom, nothing threatens His Kingdom. What can be threatened is my participation in His Kingdom.

Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

This has nothing to do with participating in some wealthy religious franchise. As though if I don't choose to belong to this religious franchise or that religious franchise I am somehow barred from His Kingdom.

I absolutely agree our Faith is shown by our Work's. But man's Work is a filthy rag. Only God's Works are Righteousness. Are we not to "believe" in Him?

 

[Lighthearted]

Which one is Christ's true church?

I believe Christ's new church will be the believers that have the fruit of His love and show, share it above all else. You can bare many fruits and Spiritual gifts, but without love, you are nothing. As the day of Christ's return draws nearer, there is one thing that I see happening. Believers and non believers will see the fruits you bare and desire your faith or be jealous of it. Those that desire it will be led to Jesus through the love of God that you represent because they will seek hope. Those that are jealous will mock and persecute you because there is no love in them.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I believe Christ's new church will be the believers that have the fruit of His love and show, share it above all else. You can bare many fruits and Spiritual gifts, but without love, you are nothing. As the day of Christ's return draws nearer, there is one thing that I see happening. Believers and non believers will see the fruits you bare and desire your faith or be jealous of it. Those that desire it will be led to Jesus through the love of God that you represent because they will seek hope. Those that are jealous will mock and persecute you because there is no love in them.

My question sought to elicit a name from the person originally quoted . . .

What is this 'new church' you are speaking of? Is the present church not sufficient? Have the gates of hell prevailed against it? I Corinthians, chapter 13 was written to the existing church - so there is nothing 'new' in tinkling cymbals.

Do you believe that love will replace sound doctrinal teaching and preaching? In other words, should fellowship be the standard by which we judge a church, and not what they believe?

 

[Lighthearted]

We have been led to put one doctrine over another as a body of Christ when we should be united by His love. We as a body have placed judgement above seeking unconditional love and in the process, we have pushed people away from the Lord, including our fellow brothers and sisters. I for one don't believe there will be denominations in heaven...just those that share in the love of Jesus and His gift of eternal life.
My post isn't about starting an argument by any means. My post is about thinking more about the New Covenant He made with man. God can't be placed in a neat little box. At some point it goes beyond head knowledge and becomes heart knowledge as well through our personal relationship with Christ.

 

[Lighthearted]

My question sought to elicit a name from the person originally quoted . . .

What is this 'new church' you are speaking of? Is the present church not sufficient? Have the gates of hell prevailed against it? I Corinthians, chapter 13 was written to the existing church - so there is nothing 'new' in tinkling cymbals.

Do you believe that love will replace sound doctrinal teaching and preaching? In other words, should fellowship be the standard by which we judge a church, and not what they believe?

I will not argue with you brother. I suppose the Baptists have it right over the Pentecostals and Catholics have it over Methodists and so on? Of course read, study, let the Holy Spirit lead...but the truth of God's gift in Jesus should be first.

 

[Deade]

Taken in 1 thes 4 is what we normally label as the raprure.
We see other raptures ,taken suddenly,in mat 24 and rev 14.
You are definately saying there is a rapture of the wicked before the gt.
The one taken,one left in mat 24 is not an apocolyptic setting.
They are working jobs.
You never addressed my points on why those taken can not possibly be the wicked. Nor does the gather them up first language fit. You are saying that the wheat is not harvested but only tares,with the wheat cut afterwards.
Nope,they are cut TOGETHER,THEN SEPARATED.
To imply that the two different plants are cut separately invokes yet ANOTHER impossibility. Two plants touching each other. Would take a year to accomplish that with some scissors.
They are most definately harvested together.
The field master FORBADE them to be cut separately.
Re read it. It was forbidden.
No way is mat 24 rapture the wheat and tares.
Ok,all those concepts of mat 24 being wicked taken do not fly.
Re read it in mat 24
THE VERY NEXT VERSE. Is "watch and wait"
The very next verse.
The rapture = watch and wait.
You have the wicked watching and waiting.
You are wrong on it friend.

The events of Matt. 24 parallel with Luke 17. This has nothing to do with a rapture.

Luke 17:34-37 "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

This simply points to a mass kill. The vultures feeding on those taken. The people left behind are not righteous, but they will be allowed into the millennial kingdom. God will have 144,000 young virgins with the HS, to not be transformed at Christ's coming. They will be planted into their tribes allotted land (see Eze. 48).