Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Because you say you works will maitnain your salvation. Knowinng if you stop them, you will lose your salvation.

Thats called boasting.

And false to boot......!

 

[BillG]

Actually I think grace and works do relate or correlate.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Saved by faith through faith to do works prepared in advance of being saved.

Notice saved by faith as a result of grace ( forgive the typo above "through faith)

Not saved by works to earn grace

 

[benhur]

Actually I think grace and works do relate or correlate.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Saved by faith through faith to do works prepared in advance of being saved.

Thank you BillG, that is what I believe. Good works is a pure sign that you are really believe in Jesus and you have really been born-again. Perfect scriptures that bridges faith/grace/works.

 

[benhur]

Dude, I am not creating a division.

We have two gospels. Satan created a division by convincing one of us the wrong gospel is right.

Works and grace can not realate, even scriptures states this, if it is works, it is no longer grace otherwise works is no longer work, if it is grace it is no longer works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Mixing works and grace is like mixing oil and water, they do not mix.

See Ephesians 2:8-10, given to me by BillG.

 

[benhur]

Everything benhur say's is the opposite of what the bible teaches, bitter is sweet, hot is cold, etc.

He pushes a counterfeit gospel be careful.

Here's another one for your TT:
I believe you must be born-again of the Holy Spirit. Is that the truth, or is that opposite of what the bible says?

 

[TruthTalk]

So even though the Lord hates divisions, you are bound and determined to create and maintain division?

You are pushing a counterfeit gospel on a, "International Conservative Christian Forum. "What do you expect.

Here you go again pushing a lie; Jesus said, "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth?"

​

But you say "Just the opposite", Quote: "the Lord hates divisions, you are bound and determined to create and maintain division?",

benhur stop teaching false dogma on this beautiful Christian Forum please.

Luke12:51-53

51) Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52) From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53) They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”​

 

[benhur]

Everything benhur say's is the opposite of what the bible teaches, bitter is sweet, hot is cold, etc.

He pushes a counterfeit gospel be careful.

Here is another one TT:

I believe that good works can not save you. Is that the truth or is that opposite of what the bible says?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually I think grace and works do relate or correlate.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Saved by faith through faith to do works prepared in advance of being saved.

We are talking how one gets saved my friend. Thats the context.

And scripture agrees

Romans 4: 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11: 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 tim 1: 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

And there are more..

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Here is another one TT:

I believe that good works can not save you. Is that the truth or is that opposite of what the bible says?

. . . but you say that if we don't do them we'll lose our salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are right, that is why there is the process of repentance and forgiveness, and the grace of Jesus Christ to lift us to EL. But if we find ourselves on the downward spiral and we repent not and continue our downward spiral, and we do not receive repentance, we will lose our EL. How many Christians have you seen leave the churches in the last 10 years? They are on a downward spiral out of EL.

No your wrong, your still trying to earn it.

Your right, Thats why God had to come, Because nothing we coud do could make us right with God. NOTHING.

When you stop trying, and fully repent, I think you will see.. Until then, you will continue to work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, TT, let's see if everything I say is opposite of what the bible teaches and see if you are telling the truth:
Here is 1 thing I have said almost every day.
I believe we must believe that Jesus is the Son of God and our Savior. Is that the truth, or is that opposite of what the bible teaches?

You do not stop here. You say we must do more..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See Ephesians 2:8-10, given to me by BillG.

Eph 2 says we are saved by grace through faith, Not of works.

So why do you insist to add wroks, then try to use this?

Eph 2: 10 says whoever is saved WILL DO WORKS.

Thats the only correlation.

Those saved will work

Those not will not.

You claim a person can get saved, and not do works,, you destroy the correlation according to paul

 

[benhur]

You are pushing a counterfeit gospel on a, "International Conservative Christian Forum. "What do you expect.

Here you go again pushing a lie; Jesus said, "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth?"

​

But you say "Just the opposite", Quote: "the Lord hates divisions, you are bound and determined to create and maintain division?",

benhur stop teaching false dogma on this beautiful Christian Forum please.

Luke12:51-53

51) Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52) From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53) They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”​

Read Jesus's prayer in John 17:
John 17:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus wants the people of the church to be one, just like he and his Father are one. I feel like you and I can, with the help of the bible, reconcile our beliefs about what it takes to be saved. Maybe not, but even if we have some disagreement, we should be willing to share the same church as followers of Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

Notice saved by faith as a result of grace ( forgive the typo above "through faith)

Not saved by works to earn grace

The Amplified Bible explains it well.

Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

AMPC - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2:8–9&version=AMPC

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read Jesus's prayer in John 17:
John 17:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus wants the people of the church to be one, just like he and his Father are one. I feel like you and I can, with the help of the bible, reconcile our beliefs about what it takes to be saved. Maybe not, but even if we have some disagreement, we should be willing to share the same church as followers of Christ.

We can not be one if you teach a different gospel..

Works and grace can not mix (for salvation) period. If you think they can, you do not understand grace.

 

[benhur]

Eph 2 says we are saved by grace through faith, Not of works.

So why do you insist to add wroks, then try to use this?

Eph 2: 10 says whoever is saved WILL DO WORKS.

Thats the only correlation.

Those saved will work

Those not will not.

You claim a person can get saved, and not do works,, you destroy the correlation according to paul

Read verse 10:
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We were created in Christ Jesus unto good works and we ""should"" walk in those good works. It does not say, "whoever is saved will do works". We have our free agency and if we decide to be engaged in the work of the Lord, that God hath before ordained, then we do and along with our belief in Christ and our faith, and being born-again, and by the grace of Jesus we are given EL.

There is another path, after we believe and are born-again, we may not be engaged in the work of the Lord, that God hath before ordained. We ""should"", but we ""don't"" for whatever the reason. Lazy, duped, fallen away, etc., etc., etc. In this case our belief and faith sounds as cold, heartless brass, and we produce little or no fruit for the KOG. Therefore according to John 15:2 you will suffer the consequences of your actions.

 

[benhur]

The Amplified Bible explains it well.

Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

AMPC - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2:8–9&version=AMPC

vs 10 was the vs that we were discussing.

 

[benhur]

We can not be one if you teach a different gospel..

Works and grace can not mix (for salvation) period. If you think they can, you do not understand grace.

Is it possible for the Christian churches to be one?

 

[mailmandan]

vs 10 was the vs that we were discussing.

Verse 10 makes it clear that we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read verse 10:
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We were created in Christ Jesus unto good works and we ""should"" walk in those good works. It does not say, "whoever is saved will do works". We have our free agency and if we decide to be engaged in the work of the Lord, that God hath before ordained, then we do and along with our belief in Christ and our faith, and being born-again, and by the grace of Jesus we are given EL.

Read my post. I spoke on this verse. Thjis verse did NOT contradict the first 2 verses. It says those who are saved will work.

It says we are a new creation created for good works. Not because we are trying to stay saved, but because we are saved (new creation)

Your so focused on your righteousness, you can;t see anythign else..

There is another path, after we believe and are born-again, we may not be engaged in the work of the Lord, that God hath before ordained. We ""should"", but we ""don't"" for whatever the reason. Lazy, duped, fallen away, etc., etc., etc. In this case our belief and faith sounds as cold, heartless brass, and we produce little or no fruit for the KOG. Therefore according to John 15:2 you will suffer the consequences of your actions.

There is ONE PATH, Jesus said I AM thE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, no one comed BUT THROUGH ME

Paul said anyone who teached A DIFFERENT GOSPE is to be accursed.

We are nto talking about sanctification (christian growth) but about justiication (CHristian adoption and forgiveness)