Till the Son of man be come

[Chuckyz2]

One thing we do know is that whatever "come" means, it happened before the disciples went to evangelize the gentiles.

That makes the most sense to me.
And He spent some time with the disciples before He ascended.
"Come" must be Him returning from the grave. Defined "hell" in the Bible.
It is pretty obvious that the end hasn't happened yet.
That He hasn't returned in all His glory.
I didn't see it. And it is written every one would.

 

[iamsoandso]

One thing we do know is that whatever "come" means, it happened before the disciples went to evangelize the gentiles.

This is the text to Revelation 14:8 ,,,the gentiles drink her wine and then the harvest... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14.htm

 

[iamsoandso]

This is the text to Revelation 14:8 ,,,the gentiles drink her wine and then the harvest... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14.htm

The harvest I cant remember how it goes refresh my memory,,,he said "immediately after the tr...",,,

 

[KJV1611]

That I think would be odd for them to have in mind the Mill./1000 year reign and why is that none were found worthy to loose the seals until Jesus was slain (Revelation 5:5-12) so is the 1000 year reign mentioned then o years later when Revelation was written?

In Matthew 16:21 Peter rebukes him when he told them this and in Mark 9:32(the same story recited) it says "they understood not..."


So I'm asking if in Matthew 24:3 (if they were asking about the sign of his first coming as the Messiah or if they understood he would die and ascend then return again second coming ect.) you see if they did not understand it(though Jesus did tell them,I agree) then they in Matthew 24:3(before he died,was buried and rose) is as if they were asking him that if he was the Messiah and he was to rule forever in Israel then he would from the very temple he just said would be destroyed,hence "sign of thy coming"...

look at what they all did and thought "after he died" Mary,Thomas,Peter ect. see Luke 24:21 "we trusted,,,but he's dead"

(Mat 24:3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

I think that verse can be read a couple of different ways, but I see three questions.

Question 1 - When will the temple be destroyed? AD 70
Question 2 - What would be the sign of his coming? Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Question 3 - What would be the sign of the end of the world? The gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations.

The disciple may have understood it this way or they may have thought all of those events happened simultaneously. I see the verse as 3 separate events.

 

[KJV1611]

I believe Jesus talk to Christian. If you believe Jesus only talk to 12 apostle that during the time from his death to His resurrection, only 3 days and Bible not say that during that 3 days time there is persecution and apostle move from city to city.
it was no car, walk from city to city may take half day. And preach the gospel door to door also time consuming. In 3 days how many city you can go

Can you show me a verse in the Bible that tell apostle move from city to city during the 3 days till Jesus resurrect?

I believe Jesus talk to Christian.
Christian population in Israel now is about 2%

I believe before Christian population in israel become majority Jesus come.

I think you're not understanding the verse Jackson123. Jesus sent the disciples to spread the gospel to Israel, but Jesus told them that he would return BEFORE they completed that task. It doesn't matter if they never made it to any city or if they were even persecuted at all before Jesus came. Also there is no way this verse can apply to Christians 2000 years later.

 

[KJV1611]

Sorry if someone already suggested this (I don’t have time to read all 7 pages of responses), but I believe Jesus plainly says here exactly what He meant; that He would “come” prior to His disciples going over the cities of Israel.

It behooves us to know what Jesus meant by “be come”. In II Peter 1:16-18 we find:

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Here is found a clear reference to Christ’s transfiguration, where Peter, James and John were eye witnesses to Christ’s power and “coming” in a glorified state of majesty, accompanied by old-testament saints but, far more importantly, by the audible Voice of the Father, from the excellent glory, in which the Father honored and glorified the Son.

So it is clear that the 12 has not preached Christ to every city in Israel prior to our Lord’s transfiguration, regardless of what one makes of the other prophesies contained in Matthew chapter 10.

This explanation also resolves passages, such as Matthew 16:28;

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It was only a few days after our Lord spoke the above (as well as Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27) that He fulfilled these prophesies of His coming into His Kingdom. Consider who was present on the Mount:

1. The glorified God-Head ( in Christ dwelt all the fullness of the God-head bodily) in intensely resplendent light and glory
2. Moses, an Old Testament saint whose body was dead and God had buried.
3. Elijah, an Old Testament saint whose body did not die but, like Enoch’s, must have been changed in order to walk with God where He had taken them.
4. Three New Testament Apostles.

Who will be in the Kingdom of God that are not respresented by the persons on the Mount, at what Peter described as Christ’s “coming” in power and glory?

Consider the subject under discussion at this “ coming”: Jesus’ upcoming passion, i.e., the Gospel, the power of God unto salvation. So the King of Glory, Jesus Christ (to whom the Holy Spirit was given without measure) and the representatives of the subjects of His Kingdom, meet at the same place and time to discuss the soon-to-come means of salvation for the the future inhabitants of the new world. And the Father speaks the words of endorsement (coronation), confirming Christ as King.

Was this not a significant “coming” of our Lord into His Kingdom?

If we don’t broaden our understanding of the various uses and meanings the scripture makes of certain words, we force ourselves into overly complex interpretations.

That's a good point and something I had never considered. Right now I'm starting to see that just because a bible verse talks about Jesus coming doesn't always mean the 2nd advent. Thanks for your response it was very helpful to me.

 

[KJV1611]

Matt 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus was spoke to a group of follower, may not more than hundred and all of them die by now

Why Jesus say I am with you to the end of the world?

Did Jesus only spoke to them or to all Christian for all generation?

I think the great commission applies to all.

 

[KJV1611]

Here is the two places Jesus spoke about "RETURN" (when referring to Himself):

Luke 12:36-37,38,40['Son of man cometh'],42-44 and context, as well as Luke 19:12,15,17,19 and context.

Do you believe these took place back then (or are far future from then, as I do)?

I don't know for sure but I lean toward future.

 

[KJV1611]

The harvest I cant remember how it goes refresh my memory,,,he said "immediately after the tr...",,,

This?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Jackson123]

I think the great commission applies to all.

So does in matt 10. Jesus speak to all.

 

[Jackson123]

I think you're not understanding the verse Jackson123. Jesus sent the disciples to spread the gospel to Israel, but Jesus told them that he would return BEFORE they completed that task. It doesn't matter if they never made it to any city or if they were even persecuted at all before Jesus came. Also there is no way this verse can apply to Christians 2000 years later.

When Jesus sent 12 disciple spread the gospel to Israel? Is that during 3 days between his death to resurrection?

 

[KJV1611]

So does in matt 10. Jesus speak to all.

I don't think Matthew 10 applies to all because in Matthew 10 Jesus said specifically for the 12 disciples to go the lost sheep of the house of Israel and preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The kingdom of heaven came 2000 years ago, there is no need for us to preach that message, it's not at hand any more its been here for 2000 years.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[KJV1611]

When Jesus sent 12 disciple spread the gospel to Israel? Is that during 3 days between his death to resurrection?

No it's not bound to the 3 days between his death and resurrection and those verses don't say that is. Jesus said go to the cities of Israel and preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand, then he said before you have time to reach all of the cities of Israel, then He (Christ) would come.

 

[Jackson123]

I don't think Matthew 10 applies to all because in Matthew 10 Jesus said specifically for the 12 disciples to go the lost sheep of the house of Israel and preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The kingdom of heaven came 2000 years ago, there is no need for us to preach that message, it's not at hand any more its been here for 2000 years.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

When Jesus speak to 12 disciple do not mean only for them, like in matt 28 Jesus speak to a group of people but it apply for us.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.



Verse 21 brother deliver you (12 apostle ) to death not happen yet in the resurrection, it may happen 20 years after resurrection, so your theory till the son of man come mean resurrection is not fit.

Yes Jesus say not to go to non Israel, it was the first target, next target is every nations.

Verse 22 Jesus said you will hated by all men, if Jesus only targeting Israel why all man hate them?

I believe the chronology is, Israel first than all nation.

 

[KJV1611]

When Jesus speak to 12 disciple do not mean only for them, like in matt 28 Jesus speak to a group of people but it apply for us.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.



Verse 21 brother deliver you (12 apostle ) to death not happen yet in the resurrection, it may happen 20 years after resurrection, so your theory till the son of man come mean resurrection is not fit.

Yes Jesus say not to go to non Israel, it was the first target, next target is every nations.

Verse 22 Jesus said you will hated by all men, if Jesus only targeting Israel why all man hate them?

I believe the chronology is, Israel first than all nation.

Let's look at it from your point of view. Which verse says that brother will deliver brother to death before the Son of man comes?

 

[Jackson123]

Let's look at it from your point of view. Which verse says that brother will deliver brother to death before the Son of man comes?

Matt 10 verse 21

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

 

[KJV1611]

Matt 10 verse 21

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

Right, that's where the verse states that it will happen, but which verse says it will happen before the Son of man comes?

 

[iamsoandso]

(Mat 24:3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

I think that verse can be read a couple of different ways, but I see three questions.

Question 1 - When will the temple be destroyed? AD 70
Question 2 - What would be the sign of his coming? Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Question 3 - What would be the sign of the end of the world? The gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations.

The disciple may have understood it this way or they may have thought all of those events happened simultaneously. I see the verse as 3 separate events.

Ok I appreciate you responding. I wondered if you would see aeon or world and if he was ask about something they had not yet understood but all is well. I suppose for a long time this has been debated by A&B to no certain conclusion and thought to point out that the disciples did not understand this until later in their lives.

 

[iamsoandso]

This?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yes this thank you.
In the text of Rev 14 I was wondering if You or anyone noticed the 144,000 had already been sealed and Babylon had already given her wine to the gentiles prior to the harvest but it's fine I'll watch for not to see who sees it...

 

[KJV1611]

Yes this thank you.
In the text of Rev 14 I was wondering if You or anyone noticed the 144,000 had already been sealed and Babylon had already given her wine to the gentiles prior to the harvest but it's fine I'll watch for not to see who sees it...

What verse are you talking about when you say Babylon had already given her wine to the Gentiles? BTW sometimes I'm a little slow in responding because I get tied up with other things. I always try my best to respond to everyone though.