Till the Son of man be come

[KJV1611]

So you believe Christ second coming happen 2000 years ago and He Will come for His third, am I correct?

I know Christ came the second time 2000 years ago and I'm pretty sure he's coming back again in the future... all though I come from a dispensational background and that background could still be skewing my view on his third return.

Men came up with the term "second coming" to refer to Christs return at the end of time but that term can't be found anywhere in scripture that i know of. Maybe the idea of "the second coming" comes from Hebrews 9:28.

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is NO WAY that verse speaks of Christ's return at the end of time because C

It can have several meanings. For example it can be metaphorical coming, like "I will come with my judgement".

Christ (or the gospel author) did not add any other indicators (like "before the son of man will come in His glory or in the end of the world etc.), so we can only guess what the verse means, IMHO.

I agree with that last part, the only thing we know for sure is that "when the Son of man come", he came during the time of the disciples before they had finished evangilizing Israel. Do you agree with that?

 

[KJV1611]

So you believe from the day Jesus die to His resurection there was persecution and apostle run from one city to other.

This believe is because your interpretation :"till the Son of man be come" mean till resurrection.

So you believe the persecution that make apostle run from city to other city is during Jesus not come, or not with them after cross till resurection It only 3 days. I am not aware Bible say there is persecution during that 3 days period

In my opinion the word :"till the son of man come" on that verse mean the end time. And that verse is for Christian in general.

You say that the time is the time of the end, that's 2000 years and counting and Jesus said he wouldcome BEFORE the 12 DISCIPLES preached the gospel to all of Israel.

If this was to happen before the disciples died, how can this be at the end of time? I'm trying to see your logic in this.

 

[Studyman]

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

What are your thoughts on Jesus coming before the disciples went to all the cities of Israel?

When does the Son of Man come to each person? Don't we have our lifetime to choose Him? And when we die isn't the next thing we see is Him at a resurrection? Either the resurrection when He comes back the first time, or the resurrection after His 1000 year reign?

Stephen had not yet gone through all the cities of Israel. When his eyes are opened again, will he not "see" the Son of Man? Isn't that the time the Son of Man comes for Stephen?

1 Thess. 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[KJV1611]

In Matthew 24:3 when the disciples ask him the three questions, the one in specific ,,,,"and the sign of thy coming" were they asking him about his second advent or his first?

I think they were talking about when Jesus comes back to rule and reign a thousand years at the end of time.

I'll speak of the question further by asking you is their any scripture to support that they understood that he would die then be raised from the grave,ascend to heaven and then return in a "second advent" later in any of the Gospels Matthew,Mark,Luke or John?

Here's one place where they knew Jesus would be killed and rise from the dead. I don't know if the disciples knew he would ascend 50 days later.

Matthew 16:21 KJV
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

 

[trofimus]

I agree with that last part, the only thing we know for sure is that "when the Son of man come", he came during the time of the disciples before they had finished evangilizing Israel. Do you agree with that?

Yes. But it can mean several things and I think we cannot know exactly which one is the right one...

But I think that 3 days is too short.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yeah, verse 5 had just said,

"5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is at hand." [note: at some point during His earthly ministry, this ceased being said]

Later, at the time of His VISIBLE ascension (after being with them 40 days following His resurrection), that's when He said, "go you into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature"


(note: recall I'd said that I believe Matt24:14[26:13] refers to that which will be preached [only when] the [future] tribulation period is in existence on the earth, that is, once "the beginning of birth PANGS" commence [i.e. the SEALS of Rev6, in the Rev1:1 [4:1] "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time frame (i.e. the 7-yrs/70th-Wk, future)--"this gospel of the kingdom"... that it is literally "NEAR" (Mt24:33)])

 

[iamsoandso]

I think they were talking about when Jesus comes back to rule and reign a thousand years at the end of time.

Here's one place where they knew Jesus would be killed and rise from the dead. I don't know if the disciples knew he would ascend 50 days later.

Matthew 16:21 KJV
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

That I think would be odd for them to have in mind the Mill./1000 year reign and why is that none were found worthy to loose the seals until Jesus was slain (Revelation 5:5-12) so is the 1000 year reign mentioned then o years later when Revelation was written?

In Matthew 16:21 Peter rebukes him when he told them this and in Mark 9:32(the same story recited) it says "they understood not..."


So I'm asking if in Matthew 24:3 (if they were asking about the sign of his first coming as the Messiah or if they understood he would die and ascend then return again second coming ect.) you see if they did not understand it(though Jesus did tell them,I agree) then they in Matthew 24:3(before he died,was buried and rose) is as if they were asking him that if he was the Messiah and he was to rule forever in Israel then he would from the very temple he just said would be destroyed,hence "sign of thy coming"...

look at what they all did and thought "after he died" Mary,Thomas,Peter ect. see Luke 24:21 "we trusted,,,but he's dead"

 

[Jackson123]

You say that the time is the time of the end, that's 2000 years and counting and Jesus said he wouldcome BEFORE the 12 DISCIPLES preached the gospel to all of Israel.

If this was to happen before the disciples died, how can this be at the end of time? I'm trying to see your logic in this.

I believe Jesus talk to Christian. If you believe Jesus only talk to 12 apostle that during the time from his death to His resurrection, only 3 days and Bible not say that during that 3 days time there is persecution and apostle move from city to city.
it was no car, walk from city to city may take half day. And preach the gospel door to door also time consuming. In 3 days how many city you can go

Can you show me a verse in the Bible that tell apostle move from city to city during the 3 days till Jesus resurrect?

I believe Jesus talk to Christian.
Christian population in Israel now is about 2%

I believe before Christian population in israel become majority Jesus come.

 

[Bluejay2u]

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

What are your thoughts on Jesus coming before the disciples went to all the cities of Israel?

Sorry if someone already suggested this (I don’t have time to read all 7 pages of responses), but I believe Jesus plainly says here exactly what He meant; that He would “come” prior to His disciples going over the cities of Israel.

It behooves us to know what Jesus meant by “be come”. In II Peter 1:16-18 we find:

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Here is found a clear reference to Christ’s transfiguration, where Peter, James and John were eye witnesses to Christ’s power and “coming” in a glorified state of majesty, accompanied by old-testament saints but, far more importantly, by the audible Voice of the Father, from the excellent glory, in which the Father honored and glorified the Son.

So it is clear that the 12 has not preached Christ to every city in Israel prior to our Lord’s transfiguration, regardless of what one makes of the other prophesies contained in Matthew chapter 10.

This explanation also resolves passages, such as Matthew 16:28;

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It was only a few days after our Lord spoke the above (as well as Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27) that He fulfilled these prophesies of His coming into His Kingdom. Consider who was present on the Mount:

1. The glorified God-Head ( in Christ dwelt all the fullness of the God-head bodily) in intensely resplendent light and glory
2. Moses, an Old Testament saint whose body was dead and God had buried.
3. Elijah, an Old Testament saint whose body did not die but, like Enoch’s, must have been changed in order to walk with God where He had taken them.
4. Three New Testament Apostles.

Who will be in the Kingdom of God that are not respresented by the persons on the Mount, at what Peter described as Christ’s “coming” in power and glory?

Consider the subject under discussion at this “ coming”: Jesus’ upcoming passion, i.e., the Gospel, the power of God unto salvation. So the King of Glory, Jesus Christ (to whom the Holy Spirit was given without measure) and the representatives of the subjects of His Kingdom, meet at the same place and time to discuss the soon-to-come means of salvation for the the future inhabitants of the new world. And the Father speaks the words of endorsement (coronation), confirming Christ as King.

Was this not a significant “coming” of our Lord into His Kingdom?

If we don’t broaden our understanding of the various uses and meanings the scripture makes of certain words, we force ourselves into overly complex interpretations.

 

[Jackson123]

Matt 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus was spoke to a group of follower, may not more than hundred and all of them die by now

Why Jesus say I am with you to the end of the world?

Did Jesus only spoke to them or to all Christian for all generation?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Right, and "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" ^ that the disciples were asking Him about (and He had already spoken with them about in Matt13:30,39,40,49-50 when the angels will REAP [harvest]) and He was answering in what followed (Olivet Discourse, Matt24-25) tells what all... (and WHEN)… is involved. [His Second Coming to the earth; ... Matt13 "gather ye together FIRST the tares" those to be burned, is in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to what takes place at the time of our Rapture]

 

[KJV1611]

Yeah, verse 5 had just said,

"5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is at hand." [note: at some point during His earthly ministry, this ceased being said]

Later, at the time of His VISIBLE ascension (after being with them 40 days following His resurrection), that's when He said, "go you into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature"


(note: recall I'd said that I believe Matt24:14[26:13] refers to that which will be preached [only when] the [future] tribulation period is in existence on the earth, that is, once "the beginning of birth PANGS" commence [i.e. the SEALS of Rev6, in the Rev1:1 [4:1] "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time frame (i.e. the 7-yrs/70th-Wk, future)--"this gospel of the kingdom"... that it is literally "NEAR" (Mt24:33)])

Yeah the time frame of his coming is locked in by a couple things, one the disciples had to be alive and two the gospel had to be opened for preaching to the gentiles. That rules out AD 70 and can only mean his return at his resurrection.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

That rules out AD 70 and can only mean his return at his resurrection.

Here is the two places Jesus spoke about "RETURN" (when referring to Himself):

Luke 12:36-37,38,40['Son of man cometh'],42-44 and context, as well as Luke 19:12,15,17,19 and context.

Do you believe these took place back then (or are far future from then, as I do)?

 

[iamsoandso]

That I think would be odd for them to have in mind the Mill./1000 year reign and why is that none were found worthy to loose the seals until Jesus was slain (Revelation 5:5-12) so is the 1000 year reign mentioned then o years later when Revelation was written?

In Matthew 16:21 Peter rebukes him when he told them this and in Mark 9:32(the same story recited) it says "they understood not..."


So I'm asking if in Matthew 24:3 (if they were asking about the sign of his first coming as the Messiah or if they understood he would die and ascend then return again second coming ect.) you see if they did not understand it(though Jesus did tell them,I agree) then they in Matthew 24:3(before he died,was buried and rose) is as if they were asking him that if he was the Messiah and he was to rule forever in Israel then he would from the very temple he just said would be destroyed,hence "sign of thy coming"...

look at what they all did and thought "after he died" Mary,Thomas,Peter ect. see Luke 24:21 "we trusted,,,but he's dead"

Maybe I should say this about why I'm even asking this at all because in my asking this it might seem as though I'm saying there is no such thing as a "second coming". I do believe that there is a second coming as most people also do.

In John 16:12-13 Jesus brings up that there are other things that he would tell them other things but that they could not bare them yet. Then that after the comforter came they would be guided into the full truth. And so before Acts 2,3 ect. they saw things one way and after Acts 2,3 ect. another.

I suppose in that we(people who lived after the NT was written) assume that since we believe the way we do about the 2nd coming that the Apostles/disciples always did also so when we read Matthew 24,Mark 13,Luke 21what we do is inject it into what they ask without noticing they did not understand that part yet(scriptures as witness) and so we look at it and assume they are asking about the 2nd coming instead of what they ask.

Anyway though I thought I should point out that I also as most do see a 2nd coming...

 

[Locutus]

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It was only a few days after our Lord spoke the above (as well as Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27) that He fulfilled these prophesies of His coming into His Kingdom. Consider who was present on the Mount:

1. The glorified God-Head ( in Christ dwelt all the fullness of the God-head bodily) in intensely resplendent light and glory
2. Moses, an Old Testament saint whose body was dead and God had buried.
3. Elijah, an Old Testament saint whose body did not die but, like Enoch’s, must have been changed in order to walk with God where He had taken them.
4. Three New Testament Apostles

"that He fulfilled these prophesies of His coming into His Kingdom" - this is a fawlty conclusion. Christ did not come into his kingdom until after his crucifixion/suffering as we see here:

Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?”

If there is any doubt about what Jesus meant by "His glory" we have this to sort it out:

Mark 10:37 They said to Him, “Grant that we may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory.”

 

[Jackson123]

Persecution was happen after resurrection and will be worse before second coming

This video happen in 2015 in aceh, Indonesia may give us idea why Jesus say you (Christian ) will move from city to city.

 

[garee]

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corithians 5:16


When the Son of man in respect to a outward display as a demonstration of the unseen Spirit of the father? Or as seen in the temporal flesh that did not profit . When he comes on the last day will he come in the unseen glory of God who remains without form represented by the father .Or is God a man as us?

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

 

[KJV1611]

When does the Son of Man come to each person? Don't we have our lifetime to choose Him? And when we die isn't the next thing we see is Him at a resurrection? Either the resurrection when He comes back the first time, or the resurrection after His 1000 year reign?

Stephen had not yet gone through all the cities of Israel. When his eyes are opened again, will he not "see" the Son of Man? Isn't that the time the Son of Man comes for Stephen?

1 Thess. 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The context of Matthew 10 is Jesus sending the 12 to preach the "kingdom of heaven is at hand" to Israel so in my opinion it's not talking about Jesus coming to each person individually. I think the kingdom of heaven came when Christ resurrected.

 

[KJV1611]

Yes. But it can mean several things and I think we cannot know exactly which one is the right one...

But I think that 3 days is too short.

One thing we do know is that whatever "come" means, it happened before the disciples went to evangelize the gentiles.

 

[trofimus]

One thing we do know is that whatever "come" means, it happened before the disciples went to evangelize the gentiles.

Not necessarily. It could be simultaneous.

"Paul to Gentiles, Peter to Jews".