Why Jesus is NOT coming soon

[Absolutely]

The "righteous" are LEFT on the earth, for it [the CONTEXT here] is the commencing of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [comp. Dan2:35 with Gen9:1 - Noah was "left" to continue on the earth and "[ACTIVELY] FILL" it, "FILL the earth"/"FILLED the whole earth"]

The text in Matthew 24:39 "And they knew not until the flood came and took them all away"; It's not that the unbelievers had never heard judgment was coming [Noah knew this and prepared!, by the way (and was a preacher of righteousness, no less)], it's that they disregarded God's word via Noah, and thus perished in the flood judgment.


By the way, "took them ALL away" and "destroyed them ALL" refer to the time of His Second Coming to the earth (NOT our Rapture)

Look at your own interpretation. The wicked are all done in , right? Nobody on the planet. Noah about a mile in the air and no humans left. Noah LEFT VIA THE FLOOD. Then noah returned AFTER THE FLOOD/TRIBULATION.
The same with the rapture righteous 5 virgins first,followed by the foolish one martyred. They are in heaven,as was noah DURING THE TRIB,Then return,as did noah back to earth.
OK, so simple and yet we stumble.
Keep it simple. Apply the correct structures/examples Jesus used.

The one taken is the rapture. It cannot be wicked.
I noticed my points weren't challenged.
Just gave added thoughts.

 

[Studyman]

The vast majority of people who call themselves Christians believe that Jesus could come any second, any minute, any hour, any day, any week, any month. I disagree and here is why.

YOU are not ready. And when I say YOU I don't mean you as an individual, I mean you as part of the universal church from which emerges the Bride of Christ.

What do we see when we look at the church today?

First we see division. Denominations are in competition with each other based on doctrines. They fail to unite to influence towns and cities and states and countries with the gospel. Denominations and doctrinal disagreements are Satan's greatest tool to keep the church divided.

Next we see sin. Yes, the church is full of the same sins found in the world. No wonder the world mocks the church when it is full of the same sins it judges the world for committing.

Another big problem is that people who think of themselves as saints are living the same way as sinners. It's every man for themself and keeping up with the Jonses. "Christian" life is all about trading up to a newer and better and more expensive home or car or cell phone or LED TV or etc. It certainly isn't about sharing all things and not seeking possessions and the pleasures they bring.

Finally the church is utterly failing to realize its earthly responsibility to show the world what life in and with God is all about. For God so loved the world that He sent his Son, Jesus, to save it. This is the ultimate task of Jesus, i.e. to save this world, and the plan is to do this using the church.

Jesus is not coming back to marry a dirty slut lying in a gutter cowering in fear of persecution and begging to be rescued. He is returning to marry a glorious Bride who is standing tall wearing dazzling robes of righteousness which represent good works. She is an overcomer and a conqueror. She is without spot (sinless) and without wrinkle. This word wrinkle comes from a Greek verb meaning to rescue and with the prefix "a" means not needing to be rescued. Wrinkle is a terrible translation.

I believe it will be several years before Jesus can turn His church around and get it headed in the right direction. This will be the reason for the big worldwide economic collapse that's coming. He has to shake up the world and especially those who claim to follow Him.

You and I are living out our "last days" right now. We have this life to come to terms with the God of the Bible. Jesus comes as a thief in the night, we don't know when our life will end. But we should know that when this life ends, that is when the Christ comes for each of us. The next time we open our eyes will be either the first, or the second resurrection.


1 Thes. 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

These folk's "END TIMES" will have come already.

As for His Church, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".

It is my understanding that the Bible teaches us to stay out of the organized religions of the Land who have convinced all their members that they are already at peach with God. There is a lot of warnings about such things. And speaking of them is not received well today as it was not received well by the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and before.

Jesus says the Path is narrow and few are on it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Look at your own interpretation. The wicked are all done in , right? Nobody on the planet. Noah about a mile in the air and no humans left. Noah LEFT VIA THE FLOOD. Then noah returned AFTER THE FLOOD/TRIBULATION.
The same with the rapture righteous 5 virgins first,followed by the foolish one martyred. They are in heaven,as was noah DURING THE TRIB,Then return,as did noah back to earth.
OK, so simple and yet we stumble.
Keep it simple. Apply the correct structures/examples Jesus used.

The one taken is the rapture. It cannot be wicked.
I noticed my points weren't challenged.
Just gave added thoughts.

You are having a severe mental block.

Everything in the Olivet Discourse [except some verses in Lk21:12-24 about the events of 70ad] is covering that which will take place AFTER "the beginning of birth PANGS" [the SEALS] begin (and THEY do not start until AFTER our Rapture! per 1Th5:2-3/2Th2:3[v1] and all that parallels THAT. Matt24:4/Mk13:5 is "G1500- tis - a certain one" i.e. the "whose coming" of 2Th2:9a/Dan9:27a[v26] ['the man of sin be revealed,' 2Th2:8, etc; SEAL #1]

Thus, Matt24:39 and context is not referring to our Rapture. The CONTEXT is ALL about His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK.
NO "UNrighteous" will ENTER it. (ONLY the "righteous"... in mortal bodies)

 

[Ahwatukee]

The "righteous" are LEFT on the earth, for it [the CONTEXT here] is the commencing of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [comp. Dan2:35 with Gen9:1 - Noah was "left" to continue on the earth and "[ACTIVELY] FILL" it, "FILL the earth"/"FILLED the whole earth"]

Hello DivineWaterMark,

You can't use Noah as an example of the church being left on the earth, because if he and his family would have been removed, then no one would have been here to repopulate the earth.

The gathering of the church will be an unprecedented event and that because God's coming wrath, the day of the Lord, will be an unprecedented time of plagues of wrath, which is supported by what Jesus said:

"Then there will be a time of great tribulation unequaled from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been shortened no one would be left alive.

Therefore, the gathering of the church as well as the time of God's wrath will be unprecedented and therefore, neither Noah being left on the earth nor Lot remaining on the earth and being led to safety cannot be compared to the gathering of the church. Only the protection in the midst of God's wrath can applied. But since God's judgments will affect the entire earth and everyone on it, then the church must first be removed, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already did.

The text in Matthew 24:39 "And they knew not until the flood came and took them all away"; It's not that the unbelievers had never heard judgment was coming [Noah knew this and prepared!, by the way (and was a preacher of righteousness, no less)], it's that they disregarded God's word via Noah, and thus perished in the flood judgment.

I whole heartedly agree! I have been saying that it is the wicked who are of the "one taken" group and that this event is not referring to the gathering of the church, but when the angels gather the wicked at the end of the age to be killed.

By the way, "took them ALL away" and "destroyed them ALL" refer to the time of His Second Coming to the earth (NOT our Rapture)

I also agree with this in that, the reference to "and took them all away" is referring to those in the flood, which is pointing to what is going to take place at the second coming.

When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and the church with Him, the angels will go throughout the entire earth and will first gather the wicked, who are the "one taken" as also described in Matt.24:31. Where they will be brought to where all of those kings, their generals and armies will have been gathered, with everyone being killed with the double-edged sword. The birds/vultures that will have been gathered together by the angel will eat their flesh, while their spirits will go down into Sheol/Hades.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hello Ahwatukee,

With respect, it seems as though you have not been following my posts very well, or are reading what I wrote very well.

I am NOT saying the Church (which is His body) will be left on the earth.

And I've just stated that "the beginning of birth PANGS" BEGIN AFTER the Church is raptured out (per the SEALS EQUALING "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" and Paul stating that the Day of the Lord cannot ARRIVE [1Th5:2-3, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" of MANY MORE TO FOLLOW that one (2Th2:3,7-8a, also [Rapture "FIRST"... "and THEN the man of sin BE REVEALED")] UNTIL we are raptured!

You can't use Noah as an example of the church being left on the earth...

I didn't say that, nor even remotely imply that.


[the "AND THEN [kai tote]" is used, in almost EVERY case that I am aware of, to mean "and then [following on as a consequence, outcome, aftermath]" rather than indicating a large gap of time between one happening and the other]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

… so I'm saying everything written in the Olivet Discourse [EXCEPT Lk21:12-24 / 70ad events] FOLLOWS "the beginning of birth PANGS [i.e. the SEALS of Revelation 6]" (that is, AFTER our Rapture... "The Church which is His body" is NOWHERE referred to in the Olivet Discourse, but instead, those who will be IN the trib, and awaiting the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [Matt24:33, etc])

 

[Absolutely]

Just because it says they are "burned" (to burn) doesn't necessarily mean "GWTj," does it? (I think it might say "furnace OF the fire," by the way, vv.42,50).

Let me ask you this, when do you think this sentence was referring to, when the guy said, "I am tormented in this FLAME"? [Lk16:24] (his brothers hadn't yet arrived, and apparently still had "opportunity/time" to keep from going there also)…



[Rev19:19/16:14-16/Armageddon = Isa24:21-22 "punished/prison/pit... and after many days [the MK], shall they be punished" (the GWTj is the final carrying out of the sentence [for all of the "dead [unsaved]" of all times])]

Hell is lower earth. Paradise is adjacent across some valley or gulf.
It is temporary torment until the gwtj.
In rev it says "... And death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire"
Paradise housed the patriarchs at on time. Jesus took them to heaven after raising them from the dead. Paradise is apparently empty.

 

[Absolutely]

I forgot who died ( patriarch) before the flood.
It appears the flood could not begin until he died.
This could be significant,in that we are at that same threshold.
Some key player dies then the " flood"

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I forgot who died ( patriarch) before the flood.
It appears the flood could not begin until he died.
This could be significant,in that we are at that same threshold.
Some key player dies then the " flood"

Methuselah . . . "When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent"

 

[Absolutely]

You are having a severe mental block.

Everything in the Olivet Discourse [except some verses in Lk21:12-24 about the events of 70ad] is covering that which will take place AFTER "the beginning of birth PANGS" [the SEALS] begin (and THEY do not start until AFTER our Rapture! per 1Th5:2-3/2Th2:3[v1] and all that parallels THAT. Matt24:4/Mk13:5 is "G1500- tis - a certain one" i.e. the "whose coming" of 2Th2:9a/Dan9:27a[v26] ['the man of sin be revealed,' 2Th2:8, etc; SEAL #1]

Thus, Matt24:39 and context is not referring to our Rapture. The CONTEXT is ALL about His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK.
NO "UNrighteous" will ENTER it. (ONLY the "righteous"... in mortal bodies)

Um,no I see all that with the birth pangs. Such a no brainer and has nothing to do with my points. Birth pangs are BEFORE, not during. So think about it a while.
I only see 2 places where any wicked are taken.
One is rev 14. The other is at the gwtj.
. I see quite clearly. You nor anyone here is sddressing my points.
Read vs 38. Real slow. Jesus is contrasting PREJUDGEMENT in both instances.
What the setting is. Both settings are pejudgement. What they are DOING before judgement.
You and others are COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to the setting.
Lot, noah, the baby Jesus, "one taken" are all prejudgement settings.
You are saying the wicked are taken prejudgement.
Test fit prior to taking a position.

 

[Absolutely]

Methuselah . . . "When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent"

A key player removed. Then " noah" enters heaven/the ark.

Interesting twist would be that instead of dying/removed, the view from heaven is one comes into play.
(Transversly)
Heavens perspective.
Not laying down anything as fact,just thinking out loud.

 

[Absolutely]

You and I are living out our "last days" right now. We have this life to come to terms with the God of the Bible. Jesus comes as a thief in the night, we don't know when our life will end. But we should know that when this life ends, that is when the Christ comes for each of us. The next time we open our eyes will be either the first, or the second resurrection.


1 Thes. 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

These folk's "END TIMES" will have come already.

As for His Church, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".

It is my understanding that the Bible teaches us to stay out of the organized religions of the Land who have convinced all their members that they are already at peach with God. There is a lot of warnings about such things. And speaking of them is not received well today as it was not received well by the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and before.

Jesus says the Path is narrow and few are on it.

Yes,good post.
But half the picture.
We are saved INTO SERVICE.
Not sit on salvation.
We are supposed to occupy. That means build His kingdom and add to its population.
Discipling men into that same pattern,thereby exponentially increasing not only the kingdom but its maturing and advancement.
Imagine if you got a Billy Graham or a Steve hill,or a smith Wigglesworth saved. Imagine the explosion of the kingdom,and the death blow to Satan's.

 

[Studyman]

Yes,good post.
But half the picture.
We are saved INTO SERVICE.
Not sit on salvation.
We are supposed to occupy. That means build His kingdom and add to its population.
Discipling men into that same pattern,thereby exponentially increasing not only the kingdom but its maturing and advancement.
Imagine if you got a Billy Graham or a Steve hill,or a smith Wigglesworth saved. Imagine the explosion of the kingdom,and the death blow to Satan's.

I don't believe I add to God's church, I believe the Christ does. His people have differing gifts of service. I believe the most important thing I can do in service of God is tell the truth about His Word.

I know there are some very popular preachers in the religions of the land, and they do truly look and sound good to man. But "many" who come in Christ's Name further religious traditions which transgress God's Commandments. Traditions that don't come from the God of the Bible. In Christ's time there was also a Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people. These people claimed the Biblical God as their God, but according to the Christ, they taught for doctrines the Commandments of men.

I see the same thing in todays mainstream teaching and mentioned this truth in my post. To further the Word's of God, all of them, is "good". To further religious traditions of man in not good.

So yes, there is a HUGE, gigantic religion which calls the Christ "Lord, Lord. They have created an image of Him in the likeness of a long haired men's hair shampoo model that is known world wide as the "Christian" God, they have created High Days in worship of this God. And they have rejected the "Feasts of the Lord" the Christ created for man.

These and other things they promote are expressly forbidden by the Word which became Flesh.

I don't think I should further these religions, rather, point out their doctrines and traditions as the Christ pointed out the doctrines and religious traditions of the mainstream church of His time.

That was the reason for my post you replied to.

I'm not sitting on Salvation, I am striving to endure to the end as my Lord instructed, so as to be saved, having Faith that He will replace my mortal existence with immortality "In that day". I don't believe the mainstream preaching that some men are already immortal.

That is why I say we are all in our own "end times" waiting for the Salvation that is promised to those who "Love Him and do as He instructs, "To the end" of our natural life.

So my brother, take heed you are not drawn in or deceived by the very subtle, cleaver deception which the Christ warned of, that is disguised as "ministers of righteousness". Preachers come and go, but God's Word endures forever.

 

[Absolutely]

I don't believe I add to God's church, I believe the Christ does. His people have differing gifts of service. I believe the most important thing I can do in service of God is tell the truth about His Word.

I know there are some very popular preachers in the religions of the land, and they do truly look and sound good to man. But "many" who come in Christ's Name further religious traditions which transgress God's Commandments. Traditions that don't come from the God of the Bible. In Christ's time there was also a Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people. These people claimed the Biblical God as their God, but according to the Christ, they taught for doctrines the Commandments of men.

I see the same thing in todays mainstream teaching and mentioned this truth in my post. To further the Word's of God, all of them, is "good". To further religious traditions of man in not good.

So yes, there is a HUGE, gigantic religion which calls the Christ "Lord, Lord. They have created an image of Him in the likeness of a long haired men's hair shampoo model that is known world wide as the "Christian" God, they have created High Days in worship of this God. And they have rejected the "Feasts of the Lord" the Christ created for man.

These and other things they promote are expressly forbidden by the Word which became Flesh.

I don't think I should further these religions, rather, point out their doctrines and traditions as the Christ pointed out the doctrines and religious traditions of the mainstream church of His time.

That was the reason for my post you replied to.

I'm not sitting on Salvation, I am striving to endure to the end as my Lord instructed, so as to be saved, having Faith that He will replace my mortal existence with immortality "In that day". I don't believe the mainstream preaching that some men are already immortal.

That is why I say we are all in our own "end times" waiting for the Salvation that is promised to those who "Love Him and do as He instructs, "To the end" of our natural life.

So my brother, take heed you are not drawn in or deceived by the very subtle, cleaver deception which the Christ warned of, that is disguised as "ministers of righteousness". Preachers come and go, but God's Word endures forever.

Oh brother.
I suppose you do not understand the work of the evangelist.
No,the evangelist has not the power to reach into a mans spirit and magically change his heart. That is a work of heaven. I am surprised that has to be taught to you.
The evangelist is ONLY A MOUTHPIECE.
As such he only plays a part in salvation. Of course it is God "adding to his church."
So your dire warning is ridiculous
You think men being discipled is some horrible dynamic that sends heaven screaming in terror?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You are saying the wicked are taken prejudgement.

I think I get what you are attempting to get across (if I am understanding you correctly, and if you are understanding my posts correctly). I think you are perhaps (not sure) saying that there is no "judgment" before the GWTj. Is that what you are saying? Coz I'm not. I believe Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13] at the opening of the FIRST SEAL Rev4-5 (at the START of the 7-yr trib) and that His judging and reigning [and governance] continues on through the entire earthly MK [all of this is "The Last Day" (the 7th Millennium/7th "Day" which starts at "dark" as all prophetic days do), aka the DOTL (starting at "DARK" but not staying there)]


I've said in another thread (I don't think it was this one, not sure) that the following passages correlate (time-wise):

--Revelation 19:19 / 16:14-16 (Armageddon and His Second Coming to the earth)

--Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which states, "21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth [see reference above]. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days [the earthly MK that they will NOT be present to enjoy] shall they be visited/PUNISHED [the GWTj--the final carrying out of the sentence]." [the first half of this verse happens at Christ's Second Coming to the earth; the second half of this verse happens when they ['the dead [unsaved]'] are brought to stand before the GWTJ and the final sentence carried out (the second death; lake of fire)]


I'm saying that Matthew 24:37-41 (and v.36 for that matter) are referring to what takes place at His Second Coming to the earth (not at our Rapture--though many believe is surely sounds like the Rapture--this is not its CONTEXT). There has been a lot of "judgment" taking place all through the Seals, Trumpets, Vials up to this point. Then the 1000 years happen; then the GWTj. Matt24-25 (and Matt13:30:39,40,49-50) I believe are the period of time leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the earthly MK), at that point in the "judgment". [Rev19:19 / 16:14-16 / Isa24:21-22]

 

[Absolutely]

I think I get what you are attempting to get across (if I am understanding you correctly, and if you are understanding my posts correctly). I think you are perhaps (not sure) saying that there is no "judgment" before the GWTj. Is that what you are saying? Coz I'm not. I believe Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13] at the opening of the FIRST SEAL Rev4-5 (at the START of the 7-yr trib) and that His judging and reigning [and governance] continues on through the entire earthly MK [all of this is "The Last Day" (the 7th Millennium/7th "Day" which starts at "dark" as all prophetic days do), aka the DOTL (starting at "DARK" but not staying there)]


I've said in another thread (I don't think it was this one, not sure) that the following passages correlate (time-wise):

--Revelation 19:19 / 16:14-16 (Armageddon and His Second Coming to the earth)

--Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which states, "21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth [see reference above]. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days [the earthly MK that they will NOT be present to enjoy] shall they be visited/PUNISHED [the GWTj--the final carrying out of the sentence]." [the first half of this verse happens at Christ's Second Coming to the earth; the second half of this verse happens when they ['the dead [unsaved]'] are brought to stand before the GWTJ and the final sentence carried out (the second death; lake of fire)]


I'm saying that Matthew 24:37-41 (and v.36 for that matter) are referring to what takes place at His Second Coming to the earth (not at our Rapture--though many believe is surely sounds like the Rapture--this is not its CONTEXT). There has been a lot of "judgment" taking place all through the Seals, Trumpets, Vials up to this point. Then the 1000 years happen; then the GWTj. Matt24-25 (and Matt13:30:39,40,49-50) I believe are the period of time leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the earthly MK), at that point in the "judgment". [Rev19:19 / 16:14-16 / Isa24:21-22]

The entire gt is judgement.
Some separate it tribulation half then judgement.
The bible says " power was given the AC"
SO even the trib is judgement.
Sometimes in the OT God used kings and nations to judge Israel. Even though indirect,God still used indirect methods to Judge

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The entire gt is judgement.
Some separate it tribulation half then judgement.
The bible says " power was given the AC"
SO even the trib is judgement.
Sometimes in the OT God used kings and nations to judge Israel. Even though indirect,God still used indirect methods to Judge

I believe only the second half of the 7 years is known as "the GREAT tribulation" (rather than calling all 7 years the GT, as you seem to be).

But besides this one minor difference, then it seems you and I agree at least on this point.


I'm just saying that Matthew 24:36,37-51 is not backtracking to tell of events occurring before "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" which I believe START at the FIRST SEAL [that is, Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'a certain one' " EQUALS the ARRIVAL of the man of sin [i.e. "be revealed"; "whose coming" 2Th2:9a/Dan9:27a(26)] EQUALS the INITAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 at the ARRIVAL of the DOTL time period]" EQUALS when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Rev4-5; Isa3:13], and "the Church which is His body" (ONE BODY--whole!) has already been "caught up" at "The Departure *FIRST* " (before the "DOTL" and "man of sin" ARRIVE [at SEAL #1 / INITIAL BP])]


What I'm not "getting" is why you think *I* am saying that an event at the time of His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19 and the Matt24:36-41 etc thing] would be considered a "prejudgment"??

Absolutely said:

You are saying the wicked are taken prejudgement.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe only the second half of the 7 years is known as "the GREAT tribulation" (rather than calling all 7 years the GT, as you seem to be).

Correct. The first half (3 1/2 years) in the Tribulation and the second half (3 1/2 years) is the Great Tribulation. The entire period is an expression of God's wrath (which allows Satan's wrath to also be expressed during the first half).

 

[Hevosmies]

Imagine if you got a Billy Graham ... saved. Imagine the explosion of the kingdom,and the death blow to Satan's.

LOL.

Billy Graham the ecumenical preacher, loved by the world. Everyone and their mother was at his funeral, and everyone praised him. Had he been a real preacher (not into the ecumenical trash that he was promoting) he would have been cursed by the world and they would have been glad he was gone.
This guy was so ecumenical in fact he had catholics in his "revivals" and the catholic leaning ones in the crowd were led to talk to a catholic priest!

Yeah, what a blow that was.

He is gone, but another one will come.

 

[pottersclay]

Christ is coming for his church (possessors of eternal life) not professors of religion.

True that