Till the Son of man be come
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So you believe from Jesus die to Jesus return meet with His disciple, the apostle Being persecute, run from one city to another city.?
I do not think that what happen. Bible tell us Peter was fishing, and Jesus meet him at the beach. It indicate peter not running avoid persecution.
That would be oversimplification of what Jesus said. What would you say of this:
Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself, Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 9:1 Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”
Matthew 16:28
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Luke 9:27
But I tell you truthfully, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."
It's not an interpretation of anything Jackson123, it's just reading the text for what it says.
You asked can I prove brother was delivered up to brother before Jesus rose from the dead, no I can't because none of those verses say that brother will be delivered up to brother before the Son of man comes.
The verse says the disciples will not have gone over Israel before the Son of man comes. If I'm wrong, please show me where it says brother will be delivered up to brother before the son of man comes.
The timing of the persecution is not in question, that happened well after Christ resurrected and Jesus never said the persecution would happen before he came back, you're adding that part.
Jesus said the disciples will not have gone to all the cities of Israel before He would come back. it's like any verse that says Jesus comes or Jesus returns always applies to the second advent of Christ.
Do you think it's not possible that the bible could mention Christ returning in a context other than the second advent?
I'm not sure what you're getting at Noose but I agree that when Jesus rose from the dead he came back with the kingdom of God and with power. Could you clarify what you meant?
But you have to read from verse 20 brother.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Are you talking about verse 23
Jesus talking about when they persecute you in this city, flee to other city.
And you believe It happen from Jesus die to his ressurection don't you?
Where in the bible say they flee from city to other because persecution during this period time.
Persecution that couse them hide, happen after Jesus ascended to heaven.
Seem to me you believe second coming happen when Jesus risen from the death am I correct?
To my knowledge, the first coming is when he born AS a baby, and die and Rose from the death, till he ascend.
In between From his death to his ascend to heaven, He not go to heaven. So this period time not consider second coming.
Second coming not happend yet.
Say you come to new York to visit sam, and than you visit John in the same city, and back to sam. Is that mean you go to new York twice?
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another (persection drives the disciples from one city to another, then another and then another): for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel (the cities that they were driven to due to persecution), till the Son of man be come.
The verse is saying that the 12 disciple will face persecution in each of the cities that they preach to, that persecution will drive them to another city and that persecution will drive them to another city and so on. And then Jesus said that he would come BEFORE they (the tweleve disciples) have gone to all the cities of Israel.
The context of the verse being the 12 disciples going from city to city means that Jesus coming agiain CAN NOT be the second advent at the end of time, Jesus is talking about coming back from somewhere else.
That mean you believe persecution that couse them run from city to other happen before His resurection, am I correct?
No I don't believe the 2nd advent of Christ happened when Jesus rose. All I am saying is that Jesus left the earth at his death and he came back to earth at his resurrection. Just because a bible verse talks about Jesus coming or coming again doesn't always mean it's talking about the 2nd advent at the end of time.
If I visit New York and come back home to Louisville, KY and then I visit Miami on another visit and then I say When I return to Louisville, KY I am going buy a new car. Which return to Louisville am I speaking of, the return from New York or Miami?
You don't know which one I'm talking about right? I would have to give more information for you to determine which return I'm talking about.
What you have written here is kind of how I see it as well. It's a little tedious for me to explain in just the few short minutes I have, at present, but I will try briefly.
Parts of Matthew 10 can be compared/correlate with the parts of the Olivet Discourse that is speaking of the events surrounding 70ad (that is, in Lk21:12-24a [24b follows from there to be speaking of "to the end of the [future] trib, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, per Rev11:2]), and other parts of it can be compared/correlate with the [far] FUTURE aspects of the Olivet Discourse (i.e. the future trib/7-yrs/70th-Wk & His Second Coming to the earth: Matt24-25) :
--Luke 21:12-24a = the events surrounding 70ad
--Luke 21:8-11 (and Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8 "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" and 1Th5:2-3 the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR]=Matt24:4/Mk13:5's "G1500 - tis - 'a certain one'" (equaling SEAL #1 / "the man of sin be revealed" / the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" 2Th2:9a [man of sin] / Daniel 9:27[26 - "that SHALL COME" / "...for ONE WEEK [7-yrs]"]--this is yet future, at the START of the [yet future] 7 years/70th Wk (the Rev1:1 "things which must come to pass [4:1] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... not over the course of some near-2000 years), and which end at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19)
--Matt22:7-8 providing the SAME SEQUENCE (as it pertains to those WHOM the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised [Acts 1:6]); with v.7 speaking of the events surrounding 70ad, and then v.8's "THEN SAITH HE to His servants" (the LATER 95ad "The Revelation" writing; see Rev7:3, for example, and understood along with Rev1:1's "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... shows that the Matt22:9-14 part is speaking of the far future [trib years] and the inviting [done BY the believing remnant of Israel (see also Matt25:40, who are NOT being the SUBJECTS of that judgment) TO the GENTILES, FOR the earthly MK [entrance]) [i.e. no one PRESENTLY is "inviting" TO the wedding FEAST/SUPPER (the earthly MK, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth)--that happens DURING the trib [Matt24:14[26:13], AFTER "the Church which is His body" has been Raptured out]
… too tired to finish out these thoughts for now. Hope it's somewhat coherent.
So you believe persecution happen
1. from Jesus die to resurrection,
2. or before Jesus die to resurrection
3. or persecution always happen till now
So you believe Jesus first come is when He born till zhis death oN the cross and you consider His resurrection is another coming, but you not say It is second coming.
How?
If you believe from born to death is first coming, It mean you believe His resurrection is second coming
First: You had a major persecution of the faithful arise (circa 40 AD), which in turn had the new Christians go underground, and so very little if any further Word was spread in the land of Israel at that time.
Second: The Word since the first century AD has been adulterated, and so the true gospel has yet to be preached in all of Judea, or throughout the world.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
In Matt 26:64, Jesus said ".... from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Q1. Did He mean that from that moment on, they see Him die and resurrect as per your belief?
In Mark 9:1/Matthew 16:28/Luke 9:27 - same event, different accounts but is clear is the fact that the phrase 'the son of man coming' has been used interchangeably with 'the kingdom of God coming'. So, to me, Jesus comes back as the kingdom of God which no one can say "...there it is or here it comes..".
Q2. When you say His second coming is His death and resurrection, does it mean the kingdom of God came?
Let's look at it like this, When Jesus died did he leave this earth? When he resurrected did he return to this earth? There is no doubt that Christs return from the dead was his second coming to earth but he is coming again at the end as far as I can tell.
So you believe persecution always happen, but you believe persecution that cause disciple run from city to city only happen till Jesus resurrect, am I correct?