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Firstly, Philippi is a place? I thought for sure it was just a made up word. Or that it meant something in roman. Secondly, Paul didn't seem to mind if the gospel was preached for the wrong reasons, so long as it was preached. [verses 15-18] I kind of don't agree with that, seeing as they might poison some people that are listening to the gospel. On verses twenty-one through twenty-four, Paul speaks as if he can choose whether he lives or dies right then. Does that mean he can allow himself to die by asking God to take his life, or just by natural causes?
I've read the whole chapter, and will probably read the next one tomorrow.
I've read the whole chapter, and will probably read the next one tomorrow.
Just so you know, if you decide to study Phillipians with me it will take along time. Once I spend some consistent time on Phillipians, I t will probably take a month. I will discuss more of chapter one tomorrow or Tuesday om e I get back and read the workbook. I will give you a rundown on what I find and I will discuss some of the ideas you've expressed about chapter one. A suggestion I have for you is to re-read chapter one and the study each individual verses. I will get back to you tomorrow or tuesday.
There are no "made up" words in the bible. Keep in mind the bible is also a historical document. So much of what is read is based off of provable history.
I think it helps to remember that what Paul might have viewed as wrong motives and the possible effects is much different than we may view it.
In this day and age a poorly motivated preacher has potential to reach millions all over the world. And this can consist of various forms of media such as books, videos, podcasts, megachurches, internet, television, etc..
Whereas in Paul's day the gospel itself was much newer and less widespread than now. And those with poor motives wouldn't have as much access to as many people as modern preachers.
Also we notice paul mentioned wrong motives, not false teachings. I believe that makes a sizable difference as well since Paul was not one to allow false teaching to be ignored.
And we can notice Paul is referring to people trying to cause him trouble in prison by their preaching. I'm not exactly sure how that would work but his comments do seem to be revolved around that situation.
But the bible says in Is 55:11 that Gods word does not return void. This may be the basis for Paul's excitement of the gospel being preached, regardless of the motives of the preacher.
Also I don't believe Paul was suggesting he chooses when to live or die, but rather he is referring to his Desires. He knows the goodness of living means getting to preach more and see more saved, but he also feels death is better because he will be freed from all that it means to live on this earth as a Christian.
But he seems more to be stating that it is better for him to be alive and preach, and that the fact he is still alive and doing so is evidence.
So basically it's an internal struggle between preaching life to a dying world or escaping the world.
Here's another translation where the wording is more clear.
NLT
20 For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die. 21 For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better. 22 But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. 23 I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me. 24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.
25 Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith.
I think it helps to remember that what Paul might have viewed as wrong motives and the possible effects is much different than we may view it.
In this day and age a poorly motivated preacher has potential to reach millions all over the world. And this can consist of various forms of media such as books, videos, podcasts, megachurches, internet, television, etc..
Whereas in Paul's day the gospel itself was much newer and less widespread than now. And those with poor motives wouldn't have as much access to as many people as modern preachers.
Also we notice paul mentioned wrong motives, not false teachings. I believe that makes a sizable difference as well since Paul was not one to allow false teaching to be ignored.
And we can notice Paul is referring to people trying to cause him trouble in prison by their preaching. I'm not exactly sure how that would work but his comments do seem to be revolved around that situation.
But the bible says in Is 55:11 that Gods word does not return void. This may be the basis for Paul's excitement of the gospel being preached, regardless of the motives of the preacher.
Also I don't believe Paul was suggesting he chooses when to live or die, but rather he is referring to his Desires. He knows the goodness of living means getting to preach more and see more saved, but he also feels death is better because he will be freed from all that it means to live on this earth as a Christian.
But he seems more to be stating that it is better for him to be alive and preach, and that the fact he is still alive and doing so is evidence.
So basically it's an internal struggle between preaching life to a dying world or escaping the world.
Here's another translation where the wording is more clear.
NLT
20 For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die. 21 For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better. 22 But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. 23 I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me. 24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.
25 Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith.
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As I had no previous knowledge of Philippi being a place, I was ignorant of it meaning anything more than a chapter title. I don't doubt the historical accuracy of the Bible, however. To me, wrong motives can perpetuate false teachings, but that's something that is more of an opinion of mine, rather than the facts that you state. Especially with you bringing up the verse in Isaiah. That one made this chapter become more clear, so thank you for that. You definitely cleared up quite a few things in this chapter. I can't wait to see what you can define in Chapter 2. There isn't too much that I can delve into there, as it is mostly how we must act now that we have God's grace. At this point, Paul still believes he will be delivered from prison, even saying "24And I am confident in the Lord that I myself will come soon. " Though in the previous verse it is more of a hope. "I hope, therefore, to send him as soon as I see how things go with me. "
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I understand the confusion over Philipi. I mentioned the bible as being historical merely to provide a bridge in your mind that the odd names have a historical place, and are not made up words. So that way, in the future, you'll have that connection made more strongly to help clear up confusion, if it happens again.
It's good for all of us to have reminders on things we know from time to time. Sometimes hearing things again we learn more once reminded.
I agree wrong motives can lead to false teaching, but again, you're coming from a modern day thinking. The way people operated in Paul's time may have been different, which may be why Paul was not concerned.
Also if you read higher up on the chapter it seemed much of that chapter revolves around Paul's imprisonment. It could be possible he was talking about those special circumstances and not All people with wrong motives. People preaching to cause him trouble in prison may have been trying to purposefully stay on correct teachings to ensure it got back to Paul.
In context of the chapter it seems feasible.
I'm no bible scholar, nor exceptionally gifted in the bible. So I may have exhausted anything of value to say haha.
I haven't looked at chapter two, but it's a viable idea that between chapters one and two time may have passed, even just a few days, and something may have changed in what Paul learned about his sentence.
It's good for all of us to have reminders on things we know from time to time. Sometimes hearing things again we learn more once reminded.
I agree wrong motives can lead to false teaching, but again, you're coming from a modern day thinking. The way people operated in Paul's time may have been different, which may be why Paul was not concerned.
Also if you read higher up on the chapter it seemed much of that chapter revolves around Paul's imprisonment. It could be possible he was talking about those special circumstances and not All people with wrong motives. People preaching to cause him trouble in prison may have been trying to purposefully stay on correct teachings to ensure it got back to Paul.
In context of the chapter it seems feasible.
I'm no bible scholar, nor exceptionally gifted in the bible. So I may have exhausted anything of value to say haha.
I haven't looked at chapter two, but it's a viable idea that between chapters one and two time may have passed, even just a few days, and something may have changed in what Paul learned about his sentence.
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I'm thinking that I need to start less from a modern point of view, and more of what is Biblical. On notes of the third chapter, Paul talks about all his fleshly accomplishments. He says that he has the most right to boast about his ties to God, but then goes on to say that none of that matters to Christ. I thought it was interesting to see that Paul starts on one of the more controversial topics that may have been on a lot of followers minds at the time. "I'm a better Christian, because I am a Jew. That slave, that Gentile is worth less than me in the kingdom of God." This could have been the attitude taken at the time, and Paul is teaching everyone that Faith comes by Christ and not through the law. Not through our good works, the birthrights that may sound good, but are not enough to get us into heaven.
I don't think any of us are scholars, but it is certainly fun to see what you guys have shared so far. I hope Rgmichels comes back with his study book soon, as then we can all give a point of view on these scriptures.
I don't think any of us are scholars, but it is certainly fun to see what you guys have shared so far. I hope Rgmichels comes back with his study book soon, as then we can all give a point of view on these scriptures.