Where do believers go after death?

[Nehemiah6]

Soul sleep is a Seventh Day Adventist teaching . . . and from cursory reading here I'm pretty sure that cultists abound.

Your are absolutely correct. Not just the SDAs but also the JWs and other cults. They lean on Ecclesiastes (and other OT passages about Sheol) and either ignore or twist the NT Scriptures which clearly teach that all the saints go to Heaven immediately, and are very much awake and alive in Heaven.

The term "sleep" as a metaphor for death implies that when the body is laid in the grave, it gives the appearance of a person in repose and sleeping. But the soul and spirit are either in Hades (for the unsaved) or in Heaven (for the saints).

 

[Magenta]

Your are absolutely correct. Not just the SDAs but also the JWs and other cults. They lean on Ecclesiastes (and other OT passages about Sheol) and either ignore or twist the NT Scriptures which clearly teach that all the saints go to Heaven immediately, and are very much awake and alive in Heaven.

The term "sleep" as a metaphor for death implies that when the body is laid in the grave, it gives the appearance of a person in repose and sleeping. But the soul and spirit are either in Hades (for the unsaved) or in Heaven (for the saints).

Everyone keeps ignoring the Scriptures I post. Why is this? You dispute the very words of Jesus! And the words of David, Solomon, Isaiah, Daniel, Matthew, Luke... in other words, the very Word of God. I believe what the Bible says, and I am sorry you do not

“David fell on sleep” (Acts 13:36).

“Some are fallen asleep” (1 Cor. 15:6).

“Fallen asleep in Christ” (1 Cor. 15:18).

“The first fruits of them that slept” (1 Cor. 15:20).

“Concerning them which are asleep” (1 Thess. 4:13).

“Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; I go that I may awake him out of his sleep” (John 11:11).

“Many that sleep in the dust” (Dan. 12:2).

“And when he had said this he fell asleep” (Acts 7:60).

This sleep is ended at the resurrection.

“I go that I may awake him out of his sleep” (John 11:11).

“Awake and sing ye that dwell in dust” (Isa. 26:19).

“I shall be satisfied when I awake with thy likeness” (Ps. 17:15).

“Many of the bodies of the saints that slept arose”

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some
to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan 12:2)

The Bible is full of the sleep of the dead.

Sleep is a metaphor for death, not wakeful awareness.
Sleep and wakeful awareness are not synonymous conditions.
For some inexplicable reason, this has completely escaped your attention.

 

[Crustyone]

Verse 19 is talking about the future resurrection of the dead.
Verse 20 is addressing people who haven't died yet.

The bible says that God takes our spirits up to be with him and since the New Jerusalem is there and Jesus went before us to prepare rooms for us, it makes sense to me that we are going into our rooms in New Jerusalem to wait out the thousand years.

 

[Crustyone]

Psalms 146:4 says that our spirit departs. In the previous post, the spirit returning to God is in Ecclesiastes 12:7. Finally Daniel 12:13 tells Daniel to rest until the end of days when he will rise. In many versions, but not the NIV, Isaiah 57:2 says that those who are righteous are resting on a bed or a couch, which I take to be the one in their room in New Jerusalem.

 

[jb]

Everyone keeps ignoring the Scriptures I post. Why is this? You dispute the very words of Jesus! And the words of David, Solomon, Isaiah, Daniel, Matthew, Luke... in other words, the very Word of God. I believe what the Bible says, and I am sorry you do not

“David fell on sleep” (Acts 13:36).

“Some are fallen asleep” (1 Cor. 15:6).

“Fallen asleep in Christ” (1 Cor. 15:18).

“The first fruits of them that slept” (1 Cor. 15:20).

“Concerning them which are asleep” (1 Thess. 4:13).

“Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; I go that I may awake him out of his sleep” (John 11:11).

“Many that sleep in the dust” (Dan. 12:2).

“And when he had said this he fell asleep” (Acts 7:60).

This sleep is ended at the resurrection.

“I go that I may awake him out of his sleep” (John 11:11).

“Awake and sing ye that dwell in dust” (Isa. 26:19).

“I shall be satisfied when I awake with thy likeness” (Ps. 17:15).

“Many of the bodies of the saints that slept arose”

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some
to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan 12:2)

The Bible is full of the sleep of the dead.

Sleep is a metaphor for death, not wakeful awareness.
Sleep and wakeful awareness are not synonymous conditions.
For some inexplicable reason, this has completely escaped your attention.

It is the body of a Christian that sleeps, NOT the soul, the Christian retains their spirit at death and soul/spirit ascend into God's Presence in Paradise in Heaven. 1Thess 5v23.

Matt 27v52: "and many bodies of the saints which slept..."

2Cor 5v8: "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

With Phil 1v23: "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better."

 

[Magenta]

It is the body of a Christian that sleeps, NOT the soul, the Christian retains their spirit at death and soul/spirit ascend into God's Presence in Paradise in Heaven. 1Thess 5v23.

Matt 27v52: "and many bodies of the saints which slept..."

2Cor 5v8: "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

With Phil 1v23: "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better."

The body rots in the ground and returns to dust. That is no picture of sleep. You insist that being with the Lord implies soul consciousness. I just don't see it anywhere, and nobody has given any definitive proof it means that, whereas Jesus and many other Scripture teachers explicitly used the word sleep to denote death, which cannot in any way be taken to imply conscious awareness. Even Job says in 14:12, "So a man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep." The Bible says the dead "know not anything" (Eccl. 9:5), and that their thoughts have perished (Psalm 146:4). The constant harping of some like Nehemiah, who implies that one must belong to a cult to accept what the Bible teaches on this matter, is ridiculous.

"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Angels,
and then He will reward each according to his works." Matthew 16:27

Then and not before.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5

 

[jameen]

There is resurrection of life and resurrection of condemnation according to Apostle John in John Chapter Five.

Now you know where dead people go - GRAVE -

 

[Deuteronomy]

The constant harping of some like Nehemiah, who implies that one must belong to a cult to accept what the Bible teaches on this matter, is ridiculous.

Hi Magenta, I believe Nehemiah says what he does about this subject because, historically, the only "churches" who have ever held to the doctrine of the sleep of the soul have been cults. On the other hand, all of the churches/denominations that are found within the pale of Christian orthodoxy (by which I mean Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Eastern/Russian/Oriental Orthodox, etc.), have historically and steadfastly believed/taught that the sleep of the soul is heretical.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe, of course, but since what you believe in this case stands in direct opposition to the collective/historic understanding and teaching of the entire Christian church, it seems (to me anyway) that it may well be worth your time to take another look and try to figure out why.

~Deut

 

[Noose]

Everyone keeps ignoring the Scriptures I post. Why is this? You dispute the very words of Jesus! And the words of David, Solomon, Isaiah, Daniel, Matthew, Luke... in other words, the very Word of God. I believe what the Bible says, and I am sorry you do not

“David fell on sleep” (Acts 13:36).

“Some are fallen asleep” (1 Cor. 15:6).

“Fallen asleep in Christ” (1 Cor. 15:18).

“The first fruits of them that slept” (1 Cor. 15:20).

“Concerning them which are asleep” (1 Thess. 4:13).

“Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; I go that I may awake him out of his sleep” (John 11:11).

“Many that sleep in the dust” (Dan. 12:2).

“And when he had said this he fell asleep” (Acts 7:60).

This sleep is ended at the resurrection.

“I go that I may awake him out of his sleep” (John 11:11).

“Awake and sing ye that dwell in dust” (Isa. 26:19).

“I shall be satisfied when I awake with thy likeness” (Ps. 17:15).

“Many of the bodies of the saints that slept arose”

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some
to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan 12:2)

The Bible is full of the sleep of the dead.

Sleep is a metaphor for death, not wakeful awareness.
Sleep and wakeful awareness are not synonymous conditions.
For some inexplicable reason, this has completely escaped your attention.

You are avoiding the crucified thief story:

Q1. Did the thief sleep that day?
Q2. Did the thief walk with Jesus in paradise that day as was promised by Jesus? was he sleep walking?
Q3. Do you think Jesus lied when he gave a promise and increased the man's hopes knowing that the man would be unconscious?

 

[Magenta]

You are avoiding the crucified thief story:

Q1. Did the thief sleep that day?
Q2. Did the thief walk with Jesus in paradise that day as was promised by Jesus? was he sleep walking?
Q3. Do you think Jesus lied when he gave a promise and increased the man's hopes knowing that the man would be unconscious?

I posted many Scriptures before you did yours; why are you avoiding dealing with them?

You even cited one of them in post #30 which affirms that death is as sleep.

 

[Magenta]

Hi Magenta, I believe Nehemiah says what he does about this subject because, historically, the only "churches" who have ever held to the doctrine of the sleep of the soul have been cults. On the other hand, all of the churches/denominations that are found within the pale of Christian orthodoxy (by which I mean Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Eastern/Russian/Oriental Orthodox, etc.), have historically and steadfastly believed/taught that the sleep of the soul is heretical.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe, of course, but since what you believe in this case stands in direct opposition to the collective/historic understanding and teaching of the entire Christian church, it seems (to me anyway) that it may well be worth your time to take another look and try to figure out why.

~Deut

I am not brainwashed like the many who hold to Roman Cattholic heretical teachings that promote soul consciousness in death. It contributes to and supports their belief that Mary and "the saints in heaven" hear and respond to their prayers; that is another of the cherished organized church's beliefs. History proves what the organized church holds as true changes over time. God's Truth does not.

 

[Shamah]

Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."

Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise Yah, Nor any going down to silence.”

Psalms 13:3, “Look! Answer me, O יהוה my Strength; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep in death.”

Job 14:12, “and man shall lie down and not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they awake not, nor are aroused from their sleep.”

Job 17:16, “Would it sink down into She’ol? Would we together go down into the dust?”

Daniel 12:2, “and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence.”

 

[JaumeJ]

I am not brainwashed like the many who hold to Roman Cattholic heretical teachings that promote soul consciousness in death. It contributes to and supports their belief that Mary and "the saints in heaven" hear and respond to their prayers; that is another of the cherished organized church's beliefs. History proves what the organized church holds as true changes over time. God's Truth does not.

When you share truth, even if it is rough and tough love, you will be most likely labeled as belligerent.........keep up the good work, I know it is love.........some of the shakies do not understand this. God bless you always dear one.

 

[Magenta]

Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."

Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise Yah, Nor any going down to silence.”

Psalms 13:3, “Look! Answer me, O יהוה my Strength; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep in death.”

Job 14:12, “and man shall lie down and not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they awake not, nor are aroused from their sleep.”

Job 17:16, “Would it sink down into She’ol? Would we together go down into the dust?”

Daniel 12:2, “and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth wake up, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches, everlasting abhorrence.”

Others here would have us believe that asleep means awake! A multitude of Biblical writers speak on death as sleep, yet we are being told that most of the church does not believe it, and they want me to accept their rejection of Scripture as if it is I who does not believe what is written, and toe the heretical line they walk. Jesus spoke of death as sleep; Daniel, Job, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul...

1 Thes 4:13-14 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Ephesians 5:13-14 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. Therefore He says:
“Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

1 Cor 15:50-52 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Jer 51:57b
"... And they shall sleep a perpetual sleep
And not awake,” says the King,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Psalm 13:3-4
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God;
Enlighten my eyes,
Lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Lest my enemy say,
“I have prevailed against him”;
Lest those who trouble me rejoice when I am moved.

You did give a shorter version of that last one Thank you
I provided others previously, which have largely been ignored

 

[Shamah]

Others here would have us believe that asleep means awake! A multitude of Biblical writers speak on death as sleep, yet we are being told that most of the church does not believe it, and they want me to accept their rejection of Scripture as if it is I who does not believe what is written, and toe the heretical line they walk. Jesus spoke of death as sleep; Daniel, Job, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul...

1 Thes 4:13-14 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Ephesians 5:13-14 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. Therefore He says:
“Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

1 Cor 15:50-52 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Jer 51:57b
"... And they shall sleep a perpetual sleep
And not awake,” says the King,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Psalm 13:3-4
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God;
Enlighten my eyes,
Lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Lest my enemy say,
“I have prevailed against him”;
Lest those who trouble me rejoice when I am moved.

You did give a shorter version of that last one Thank you
I provided others previously, which have largely been ignored

Well they are for who they are. Those who care about truth over tradtion will take heed.

John 4:24, "Yah is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”

Isaiah 59:21, “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” said יהוה: “My Spirit that is upon you, and My Words that I have put in your mouth, shall not be withdrawn from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” said יהוה, “from this time and forever.”

We are all learning, all in different places spiritually, mentally and physically, as long as we seek Him and let His word dwell in us we do well. You know, 10 years ago I thought I knew the Word but what I really knew was religion that I had been told, tradition, etc. Still learning still seeking, may Yah open the eyes of those caught in deception, and I know your heart is in His word, may Yah guide you continually Magenta.

 

[Noose]

I posted many Scriptures before you did yours; why are you avoiding dealing with them?

You even cited one of them in post #30 which affirms that death is as sleep.

The verses that you quoted don't explain anything, they are just quotes whereas i'm trying my best to bring out the meaning of the word 'sleep' as used in the scriptures. And i have already said sleep is not a random word but a carefully chosen word used instead of death to give hope to those that remain alive because it gives them hope of uniting with the dead sometime in the future. IOW, what i mean is that people that live would relate to those that are dead as just sleeping and hope to unite with them in the future rather than consider them as being annihilated to oblivion. So quoting numerous scriptures with the word sleep doesn't explain nothing.

Sleep doesn't mean unconsciousness, on the other side of the divide, there are conscious activities that go on- that's why i dwell on the story of the thief. As much as that thief 'slept' that day, he was conscious on the other side walking with Jesus in paradise. I believe Jesus said the truth.

 

[Noose]

Others here would have us believe that asleep means awake! A multitude of Biblical writers speak on death as sleep, yet we are being told that most of the church does not believe it, and they want me to accept their rejection of Scripture as if it is I who does not believe what is written, and toe the heretical line they walk. Jesus spoke of death as sleep; Daniel, Job, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul...

1 Thes 4:13-14 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Ephesians 5:13-14 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. Therefore He says:
“Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

1 Cor 15:50-52 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Jer 51:57b
"... And they shall sleep a perpetual sleep
And not awake,” says the King,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Psalm 13:3-4
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God;
Enlighten my eyes,
Lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Lest my enemy say,
“I have prevailed against him”;
Lest those who trouble me rejoice when I am moved.

You did give a shorter version of that last one Thank you
I provided others previously, which have largely been ignored

The expression 'The dead' and 'The living' as used in those passages may not be what you think they are; the dead could simply mean the lost while the living could simply mean believers.
When Jesus said "...let the dead bury the dead.." i don't think he meant the sleeping to bury those that sleep.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I am not brainwashed like the many who hold to Roman Cattholic heretical teachings that promote soul consciousness in death. It contributes to and supports their belief that Mary and "the saints in heaven" hear and respond to their prayers; that is another of the cherished organized church's beliefs. History proves what the organized church holds as true changes over time. God's Truth does not.

Hi again Magenta, the EOC/OOC, and all of the Protestant/Baptist/Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopal/etc. churches within Christendom hold the same beliefs about this doctrine, NOT because the RCC does, but because generation after generation after generation of our various churches' & denominations' theologians, doctors, pastors and priests continue to study everything that the Bible has to say and come to the same conclusions about it.

God's truth does not change, the question in this case is, do you really know what that is?

Like I said, you are welcome to believe anything you want to about this, but if I knew that I stood in direct opposition to the collective understanding/teaching of the Christian church in its entirety, it would certainly be enough to give me pause

~Deut

 

[Shamah]

Revelation 17:4-6,4 And the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup filled with abominations and the filthiness of her whoring, (Jer 51:7) "5 and upon her forehead a name written, a secret: BAḆEL THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the set-apart ones, and with the blood of the witnesses of יהושע. And having seen her, I marvelled – greatly marvelled!"

 

[Magenta]

Hi again Magenta, the EOC/OOC, and all of the Protestant/Baptist/Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopal/etc. churches within Christendom hold the same beliefs about this doctrine, NOT because the RCC does, but because generation after generation after generation of our various churches' & denominations' theologians, doctors, pastors and priests continue to study everything that the Bible has to say and come to the same conclusions about it.

God's truth does not change, the question in this case is, do you really know what that is?

Like I said, you are welcome to believe anything you want to about this, but if I knew that I stood in direct opposition to the collective understanding/teaching of the Christian church in its entirety, it would certainly be enough to give me pause

~Deut

I believe what the Bible says, and you are free to pretend otherwise.