Not By Works

[Shamah]

MY TAKE? OT UNDER LAW..NT..UNDER GRACE...@shamah

Yet do we ignore the Law because we have mercy?
according to Paul, no:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Also the final inspired book written, that records direct message from Yahshua/Jesus says the saints guard His Commands and have faith, this does not mean guarding Commands save us but it is a reailty of Yah;s people according to the word:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

 

[Jewel5712]

ok so rather than actually consider what I say in my posts... it;s just long and I didnt answer exactly how you want so im...
"trustung Law!!!"

lol

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

Maybe His Law is in my heart?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Maybe I love YHWH?

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

BECAUSE you love God..keep His commands..not the other way around..keeping His commands to EARN His love..

 

[Jewel5712]

Yet do we ignore the Law because we have mercy?
according to Paul, no:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Also the final inspired book written, that records direct message from Yahshua/Jesus says the saints guard His Commands and have faith, this does not mean guarding Commands save us but it is a reailty of Yah;s people according to the word:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

God made a NEW LAW..it's written on the cross in Jesus blood..

 

[dcontroversal]

Mixing of law and grace/old covenant with new covenant is the problem. The end result is salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Exactly....my bible does not teach that man made Cainologist dogma.......Hebrews is clear and the New Covenant supersedes the Old covenant and the only value of the law is it condemnation of men and pointing to the only cure under the sun...the righteousness of CHRIST imputed by faith WITHOUT the deeds/works of the law.....

NO MAN keeps the law and all who say they do are liars and all who think they can are deceived.....those who push law keeping condemn themselves......

 

[Shamah]

Exactly.........and he cannot grasp the truth that the LAW and PROPHETS were until JOHN......

One more verse proves you are being decitful or are misunderstanding the word:

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

<---Jesus said this and he flat rejects it to push a law grace mixture.....oil and water do not mix....

No in modern doctrine no, but in the Scripture yes:

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of יהוה and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."

ALL who attempt to blend both covenants into one are missing the mark by a mile and pushing a man made dogma.....!!

Ohh that blend the world hates and Scripture promotes:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

 

[dcontroversal]

BECAUSE you love God..keep His commands..not the other way around..keeping His commands to EARN His love..

And in the NEW Covenant which supersedes the OLD....IT is not that we LOVED HIM, but that HE LOVED us and gave himself for us while we were YET SINNING and condemned by the very law he pushes....

 

[Shamah]

God made a NEW LAW..it's written on the cross in Jesus blood..

4 out of 5 of these verses are from the One who shed His own blood:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

 

[dcontroversal]

One more verse proves you are being decitful or are misunderstanding the word:

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."



No in modern doctrine no, but in the Scripture yes:

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of יהוה and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."



Ohh that blend the world hates and Scripture promotes:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

KEEP quoting the O.T. and rejecting the NEW....keep condemning yourself...not very bright.....and the bible does not teach a blend of law and grace.....more of your deception.......thank God JESUS sets me free from lawyers and Pharisees like you pal.

 

[Jewel5712]

Exactly.........and he cannot grasp the truth that the LAW and PROPHETS were until JOHN......<---Jesus said this and he flat rejects it to push a law grace mixture.....oil and water do not mix....ALL who attempt to blend both covenants into one are missing the mark by a mile and pushing a man made dogma.....!!

Hate to bring this to this thread but it came to mind..prodigal son...law (sin at home..abiding doing what his father willed..) grace (what the prodigal son experienced) but what BOTH MISSED was the true blessing/relationship with the Father (God) ..do I make sense..old law..new law but BOTH (being debated about) are taking presidence over the relationship with our Father..

 

[dcontroversal]

God made a NEW LAW..it's written on the cross in Jesus blood..

He will never get it......He is condemned by his own words and will mix law and grace until JESUS corrects him...albeit too late.

 

[Shamah]

Mixing of law and grace/old covenant with new covenant is the problem. The end result is salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

except you are twsiting, trying to be justified by ones works is useless...

Doing His works is not the problem...

if seeking to obey His COmmands and having faith in MEssiah are so bad why is it

1. what satand fights against

and

2. what the saints do?

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of יהוה and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of יהוה and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."

 

[dcontroversal]

Hate to bring this to this thread but it came to mind..prodigal son...law (sin at home..abiding doing what his father willed..) grace (what the prodigal son experienced) but what BOTH MISSED was the true blessing/relationship with the Father (God) ..do I make sense..old law..new law but BOTH (being debated about) are taking presidence over the relationship with our Father..

Hebrews is clear.......the NEW supersedes the OLD.......the ONLY application of the LAW is as a school master to condemn and point to Christ.....WE are NOT UNDER IT...we are UNDER GRACE....

 

[Shamah]

He will never get it......He is condemned by his own words and will mix law and grace until JESUS corrects him...albeit too late.

lol so you proclaim and know who is condemmed now? you supplant the role that has been givien to the Messiah:

John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."

 

[Shamah]

Hebrews is clear.......the NEW supersedes the OLD.......the ONLY application of the LAW is as a school master to condemn and point to Christ.....WE are NOT UNDER IT...we are UNDER GRACE....

Yet your doctrine does not fit His words:

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Heaven and earth has not passed away;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"

 

[dcontroversal]

One more verse proves you are being decitful or are misunderstanding the word:

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."



No in modern doctrine no, but in the Scripture yes:

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of יהוה and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah."



Ohh that blend the world hates and Scripture promotes:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

One more application and twist of the word to prove you are missing the mark and lying....I have consistently stated what the LAW is for...quit lying....it is not good for your working for cainologist I keep my self saved law keeping dogma....

 

[dcontroversal]

Yet your doctrine does not fit His words:

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Heaven and earth has not passed away;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"

Blah blah blah....the death of Christ RATIFIED the NEW genius......

 

[dcontroversal]

lol so you proclaim and know who is condemmed now? you supplant the role that has been givien to the Messiah:

John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."

Sure....you place yourself under that which condemns ROMANS 3....it is not that difficult to read the word of God a deduce that one who places themselves under the law is condemned....God said it...take it up with him

 

[Jewel5712]

lol so you proclaim and know who is condemmed now? you supplant the role that has been givien to the Messiah:

John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."

We aren't to disregard the laws n commands all together but more importantly Jesus died to fulfill the laws and the OT prophecies..He changed the "game plan" and made things PERSONAL (relationship with Him) more than law abiding..

This is where I see the Catholic religion is doing a disservice to many people.its all about keeping the rules and traditions of the OT and not acknowledging the Nt

 

[Shamah]

None of us are perfect yet:

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love יהוה your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”

Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am יהוה.”

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Again none of us are perfect yet His way is right, if His Law is written in the heart how can one not desire to be guided by His Spirit to walk in His ways? Does not mean we will never sin, but it does mean we will seek His standard, and definitly not fight against it...

 

[Shamah]

One more application and twist of the word to prove you are missing the mark and lying....I have consistently stated what the LAW is for...quit lying....it is not good for your working for cainologist I keep my self saved law keeping dogma....

Sure....you place yourself under that which condemns ROMANS 3....it is not that difficult to read the word of God a deduce that one who places themselves under the law is condemned....God said it...take it up with him

“iniquity” is word # G0458 - anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459, Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law, 1a) because ignorant of it, 1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."