OSAS= House Built on Sand

[dcontroversal]

5 minute rule again

Obviously any dissenting ideas from you are totally rejected by you saying they are not Biblical. The early elders had that same problem. Google it. The Apostles Creed was created to be the core beliefs and everything else was agree to disagree. You obviously can't handle disagreement. Why do you think there are so many different gospel preaching denominations? You need to look at history of the early church. Get your head out of the sand and review ancient church history and why the elders in the 300's did

Are you seriously that dense....it has nothing to do with disagreement.....it has to do with the fact that you place emphasis upon something written BY MEN some 350 years AFTER the GOD GIVEN INSPIRED WORD.....and without a doubt it is your religious persuasion that pushes it....I have dealt with religionists like you for over 30 years and they ALL push the same type of rigmarole......

 

[Seohce]

WHAT A SHAME. NOTICE AND WATCH THESE OSAS PASTORS AND CHURCH LEADERS WHO CLAIM AND DECLARE THAT “FAITH ALONE” SAVES AND IT IS “NOT BY WÒRKS” OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND OBEDIENCE, WHILE ON THE OTHER HAND COLLECTS TITHES FROM THEIR MEMBERS SAYING THAT IF THEY WOULD NOT GIVE TITHES, THEY ARE ROBBING GOD.

19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

..THAT TITHE-GIVING IS A TEST OF FAITH AND THAT GOD WILL BLESS THEM ABUNDANTLY BECAUSE WHAT THEY GIVE WILL COME BACK TO THEM IN GOOD MEASURE AND RUNNING OVER.(luke 6:38)

“NOT BY WORKS” OF THE LAW, THEY SAY, BUT THEY COLLECT TITHES ACCORDING TO THE LAW WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIM THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

THEY HAVE CREATED A MAN MADE DOCTRINE PASSED ON FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION OUT OF A GOD-GIVEN LAW FOR HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE.

THAT’S HOW THESE VIPERS IN THEIR GREED AND HYPOCRISY DECEIVE THEIR PREYS.(UNKNOWING VICTIMS)

THEY THINK THEY CAN BRIBE GOD.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

THESE VIPERS WILL STILL BE SAVED ACCORDING TO THE OSAS DOCTRINE…

...WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or GREEDY, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the GREEDY nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or GREEDY person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)

DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;

“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE

DO NOT BE DECEIVED!!!

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES!!!

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Mark 12:44

 

[Endoscopy]

I never said nor implied anything that you assume.....and I need no Apostle's creed written in 390 A.D. to tell me what the bible teaches.....and you should pay attention to your own ridiculous arguments.......

Your argument is fallacious. You ignore the history of Christianity and claim to know what the Bible says. The problem is you ignore that since the early church differences of opinion have existed and continues today. That is why there are so many different gospel preaching denominations. Ignoring these differences of opinion is fruitless. The classic is Calvinism vs Arminianism. Both have lots of scripture to back up their viewpoint. So explain to me from your Bible who is correct about total depravity! You can use Google going into the documents of each and find their Bible references on the subject. Then you can read the scriptures and decide. Solo scriptorum always!! The only problem is looking up ALL revelant scriptures in context. Try doing that with total depravity.

Are you seriously that dense....it has nothing to do with disagreement.....it has to do with the fact that you place emphasis upon something written BY MEN some 350 years AFTER the GOD GIVEN INSPIRED WORD.....and without a doubt it is your religious persuasion that pushes it....I have dealt with religionists like you for over 30 years and they ALL push the same type of rigmarole......

In other words the early elders are to be ignored. You are an ignorant windbag!! You need to explain why you reject them!!! They were defending the Bible and the fact that the core beliefs are paramount while all of the other issues are not. Of course you can only believe they were not saved by grace through faith in Jesus and spout insanity. You are ignoring any facts you don't want to believe. You are rejecting facts because they conflict with your beliefs instead.

 

[dcontroversal]

Your argument is fallacious. You ignore the history of Christianity and claim to know what the Bible says. The problem is you ignore that since the early church differences of opinion have existed and continues today. That is why there are so many different gospel preaching denominations. Ignoring these differences of opinion is fruitless. The classic is Calvinism vs Arminianism. Both have lots of scripture to back up their viewpoint. So explain to me from your Bible who is correct about total depravity! You can use Google going into the documents of each and find their Bible references on the subject. Then you can read the scriptures and decide. Solo scriptorum always!! The only problem is looking up ALL revelant scriptures in context. Try doing that with total depravity.

In other words the early elders are to be ignored. You are an ignorant windbag!! You need to explain why you reject them!!! They were defending the Bible and the fact that the core beliefs are paramount while all of the other issues are not. Of course you can only believe they were not saved by grace through faith in Jesus and spout insanity. You are ignoring any facts you don't want to believe. You are rejecting facts because they conflict with your beliefs instead.

 

[dcontroversal]

Your argument is fallacious. You ignore the history of Christianity and claim to know what the Bible says. The problem is you ignore that since the early church differences of opinion have existed and continues today. That is why there are so many different gospel preaching denominations. Ignoring these differences of opinion is fruitless. The classic is Calvinism vs Arminianism. Both have lots of scripture to back up their viewpoint. So explain to me from your Bible who is correct about total depravity! You can use Google going into the documents of each and find their Bible references on the subject. Then you can read the scriptures and decide. Solo scriptorum always!! The only problem is looking up ALL revelant scriptures in context. Try doing that with total depravity.

In other words the early elders are to be ignored. You are an ignorant windbag!! You need to explain why you reject them!!! They were defending the Bible and the fact that the core beliefs are paramount while all of the other issues are not. Of course you can only believe they were not saved by grace through faith in Jesus and spout insanity. You are ignoring any facts you don't want to believe. You are rejecting facts because they conflict with your beliefs instead.

You have nothing to offer me other than your mouthy remarks, Catholic creed and your religion.....no thanks...and you really do not know what you are talking about at the end of the day......any man that thinks he needs a commentary written some 340-50 years after the fact by men who were not inspired to understand the word of God has no understanding of the word nor the Spirit that guides into the truth....end of story.

a. Could care less about the underlined
b. The bolded speaks to your religion
c. The underlined, italicized is just your misinformed view

Like I said....nothing to offer.....

And the funny truth.....A Presbyterian "minister" used to come sit under my teaching every Sunday morning before his own service HAHA........of course you won't believe this truth!

 

[Endoscopy]

You have nothing to offer me other than your mouthy remarks, Catholic creed and your religion.....no thanks...and you really do not know what you are talking about at the end of the day......any man that thinks he needs a commentary written some 340-50 years after the fact by men who were not inspired to understand the word of God has no understanding of the word nor the Spirit that guides into the truth....end of story.

a. Could care less about the underlined
b. The bolded speaks to your religion
c. The underlined, italicized is just your misinformed view

Like I said....nothing to offer.....

And the funny truth.....A Presbyterian "minister" used to come sit under my teaching every Sunday morning before his own service HAHA........of course you won't believe this truth!

It is obvious that you have absolutely no understanding about basic Christianity coming from the early elders. You spit in their faces with your foolish diatribes. Explain to me why there are so many different gospel preaching denominations!! Differences of opinion are replete among them but all of them preach we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. That is the absolute core belief. Without that happening a person is doomed at judgement time. Doesn't matter what peripheral beliefs the person has. Obviously you can't handle this fact. While I am Reformed in my beliefs I welcome all other views as Christians if they use grace through faith in Jesus. That is the absolutely only condition that must be met. This with the knowledge of who Jesus is in order to have faith in him. In John 1 Jesus is the word and through him everything was made that was made. This since as Jesus stated "I and God are one." He was in the world and though the world was made through him the world knew Him not. But to those who knew Him He gave the power to be sons of God. Do you know this Jesus? Are you using grace through faith or works? Do you have any works? As James 2 states no works no faith. (Faith without works is dead!!)

 

[dcontroversal]

It is obvious that you have absolutely no understanding about basic Christianity coming from the early elders. You spit in their faces with your foolish diatribes. Explain to me why there are so many different gospel preaching denominations!! Differences of opinion are replete among them but all of them preach we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. That is the absolute core belief. Without that happening a person is doomed at judgement time. Doesn't matter what peripheral beliefs the person has. Obviously you can't handle this fact. While I am Reformed in my beliefs I welcome all other views as Christians if they use grace through faith in Jesus. That is the absolutely only condition that must be met. This with the knowledge of who Jesus is in order to have faith in him. In John 1 Jesus is the word and through him everything was made that was made. This since as Jesus stated "I and God are one." He was in the world and though the world was made through him the world knew Him not. But to those who knew Him He gave the power to be sons of God. Do you know this Jesus? Are you using grace through faith or works? Do you have any works? As James 2 states no works no faith. (Faith without works is dead!!)

BLAH BLAH BLAH..........

 

[Endoscopy]

WHAT A SHAME. NOTICE AND WATCH THESE OSAS PASTORS AND CHURCH LEADERS WHO CLAIM AND DECLARE THAT “FAITH ALONE” SAVES AND IT IS “NOT BY WÒRKS” OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND OBEDIENCE, WHILE ON THE OTHER HAND COLLECTS TITHES FROM THEIR MEMBERS SAYING THAT IF THEY WOULD NOT GIVE TITHES, THEY ARE ROBBING GOD.

19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

..THAT TITHE-GIVING IS A TEST OF FAITH AND THAT GOD WILL BLESS THEM ABUNDANTLY BECAUSE WHAT THEY GIVE WILL COME BACK TO THEM IN GOOD MEASURE AND RUNNING OVER.(luke 6:38)

“NOT BY WORKS” OF THE LAW, THEY SAY, BUT THEY COLLECT TITHES ACCORDING TO THE LAW WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIM THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

THEY HAVE CREATED A MAN MADE DOCTRINE PASSED ON FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION OUT OF A GOD-GIVEN LAW FOR HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE.

THAT’S HOW THESE VIPERS IN THEIR GREED AND HYPOCRISY DECEIVE THEIR PREYS.(UNKNOWING VICTIMS)

THEY THINK THEY CAN BRIBE GOD.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

THESE VIPERS WILL STILL BE SAVED ACCORDING TO THE OSAS DOCTRINE…

...WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or GREEDY, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the GREEDY nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or GREEDY person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)

DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;

“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE

DO NOT BE DECEIVED!!!

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES!!!

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

I get so tired of the statements about the law, works, etc. We all sin. Sin is transgression of the law. Most don't even know what the law is. It is 613 statements scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. Breaking the least stroke of them condemns us. The Old Testament method of removing the penalty was a yearly blood sacrifice. The preferred sacrifice was a lamb without blemish. Jesus living without sin became the unblemished hed Lamb of God. Therefore by accepting Jesus as our savior we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. His righteousness is imputed to us and our sins are imputed to Him. The law is in place and I thank God that I don't have to face judgment with my sins intact. Jesus peid the price for my failures. Anyone rejecting him is doomed.

James 2 states works doesn't save but faith without works is dead. Jesus said we would be known by our fruits.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[Endoscopy]

BLAH BLAH BLAH..........

It becomes obvious you are unable to refute my statements so you resort to the fallacious ad hominem attacks. I challenged you to support or refute the concept of totally depraved from the Bible. So break it out and provide the scripture to do that. I'm waiting. I can do it. Let's see if you are able or unable to find the relevant scriptures. Hint:Canons of Dort.

You keep saying Bible only but ignore all of the documents and books that on various topics point to the relevant scriptures on topics. Explain to me why they are useless!!

 

[dcontroversal]

It becomes obvious you are unable to refute my statements so you resort to the fallacious ad hominem attacks. I challenged you to support or refute the concept of totally depraved from the Bible. So break it out and provide the scripture to do that. I'm waiting. I can do it. Let's see if you are able or unable to find the relevant scriptures. Hint:Canons of Dort.

You keep saying Bible only but ignore all of the documents and books that on various topics point to the relevant scriptures on topics. Explain to me why they are useless!!

Keep thinking the above...all you do is regurgitate Catholic dogma when you push the Apostles creed....and you assume because I do not respond to your drivel and baited hook that I don't know or understand a particular subject...man I bet the people who sat under you got milk toast!

 

[Endoscopy]

Keep thinking the above...all you do is regurgitate Catholic dogma when you push the Apostles creed....and you assume because I do not respond to your drivel and baited hook that I don't know or understand a particular subject...man I bet the people who sat under you got milk toast!

In other words you find it impossible to look up totally depraved in the Bible to make a determination whether it is Biblical or not. You ignore what theologians do. Look at all of the scripture on a particular topic and write a summary of what the different verses in context say about the particular topic with references to the scriptures looked at. You can't even tell me if totally depraved is Biblical or not. How about the verse in the KJV that states the carnal mind is enmity against God. Here are the verses in NIV and AMPC. My two favorite translations since KJV is woefully out of date.

Romans 8 NIV
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.


Romans 8 AMPC
1 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
3 For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],
4 So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
5 For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
6 Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
7 [That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God’s Law; indeed it cannot.
8 So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
9 But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
10 But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you].

 

[Endoscopy]

Keep thinking the above...all you do is regurgitate Catholic dogma when you push the Apostles creed....and you assume because I do not respond to your drivel and baited hook that I don't know or understand a particular subject...man I bet the people who sat under you got milk toast!

ROFL
It is obvious you fail to understand the difference between Catholic and Reformed theological views. Do you even know what the Reformed theology is?? Your posts say you have absolutely no understanding of the different theologies of Reformed (Calvinist) and Armenianism with different denominations adhering to both and points in between. All going to the scripture to defend their position. This is part of the differences when the Apostles Creed was formulated to define the required beliefs to be a Christian and any view opposed to any part of it was to be considered heresy. All views not contained in it is to agree to disagree.

I challenge you to find anything not Biblical in the creed. It is a statement of the theology of the Bible. As such it allows the lay people to understand the core principles of the Bible. Start refuting!!! Remember when it was written all Bibles were copied by hand and were extremely expensive to say nothing about the fact most people were illiterate. This was therefore a use of memory to allow people to understand what the Bible stated. The common people used things like this to learn about what was in the Bible. You obviously are woefully ignorant about fourth century Biblical history!!!

 

[Endoscopy]

Keep thinking the above...all you do is regurgitate Catholic dogma when you push the Apostles creed....and you assume because I do not respond to your drivel and baited hook that I don't know or understand a particular subject...man I bet the people who sat under you got milk toast!

In other words you find it impossible to look up totally depraved in the Bible to make a determination whether it is Biblical or not. You ignore what theologians do. Look at all of the scripture on a particular topic and write a summary of what the different verses in context say about the particular topic with references to the scriptures looked at. You can't even tell me if totally depraved is Biblical or not. How about the verse the carnal mind is enmity against God

 

[Endoscopy]

It becomes woefully obvious that dcontroversal has no understanding of what Calvinist, Armenians and points in between really teach. He ignores the early history of the early church. The early elders created the first Roman Creed. It was very short so they expanded it and later upgraded it to the Apostles Creed. With the illiteracy and Bibles being copied by hand the different creeds were a method of helping people understand what the Bible stated. Memorization of various types of creeds and Bible verses were done. The Apostles Creed was followed by the first and second Nicene Creed and the Athenasian Creed. All trying to accomplish the same thing. To have an easily memorized short capsule of what the Bible teaches.

Dcontroversal seems to think that everyone had a Bible back then. He has a woefully ignorant view of the early church history. Information was passed by these short capsulising of what the Bible teaches. He looks at history through the lens of today and can't understand why the creeds were created. He rants man wrote it therefore rejects it. He probably doesn't go to church since pastors preach an exposition of a section of scripture and that is created by a man therefore to be rejected.

 

[dcontroversal]

ROFL
It is obvious you fail to understand the difference between Catholic and Reformed theological views. Do you even know what the Reformed theology is?? Your posts say you have absolutely no understanding of the different theologies of Reformed (Calvinist) and Armenianism with different denominations adhering to both and points in between. All going to the scripture to defend their position. This is part of the differences when the Apostles Creed was formulated to define the required beliefs to be a Christian and any view opposed to any part of it was to be considered heresy. All views not contained in it is to agree to disagree.

I challenge you to find anything not Biblical in the creed. It is a statement of the theology of the Bible. As such it allows the lay people to understand the core principles of the Bible. Start refuting!!! Remember when it was written all Bibles were copied by hand and were extremely expensive to say nothing about the fact most people were illiterate. This was therefore a use of memory to allow people to understand what the Bible stated. The common people used things like this to learn about what was in the Bible. You obviously are woefully ignorant about fourth century Biblical history!!!

I challenge you to find the truth in the bible without the creed that you elevate above the bible.....maybe you are to lazy to actually study.....it is easier to cut and past from a man made document instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and guide into the truth by actual study.....You remind me of a preacher I knew.....he would preach his messages out of the Sword of the Lord instead of studying the actual bible...............

 

[dcontroversal]

It becomes woefully obvious that dcontroversal has no understanding of what Calvinist, Armenians and points in between really teach. He ignores the early history of the early church. The early elders created the first Roman Creed. It was very short so they expanded it and later upgraded it to the Apostles Creed. With the illiteracy and Bibles being copied by hand the different creeds were a method of helping people understand what the Bible stated. Memorization of various types of creeds and Bible verses were done. The Apostles Creed was followed by the first and second Nicene Creed and the Athenasian Creed. All trying to accomplish the same thing. To have an easily memorized short capsule of what the Bible teaches.

Dcontroversal seems to think that everyone had a Bible back then. He has a woefully ignorant view of the early church history. Information was passed by these short capsulising of what the Bible teaches. He looks at history through the lens of today and can't understand why the creeds were created. He rants man wrote it therefore rejects it. He probably doesn't go to church since pastors preach an exposition of a section of scripture and that is created by a man therefore to be rejected.

For being one one believes works must accompany salvation in order to be actually saved....lying about what I think, believe or say is not making the cut of one who is saved or is that the Modus Operandi of your religious persuasion?

 

[Slayer]

well i agree with your first paragraph , these people will be exposed because they were relying on their own works for salvation , instead of Christ alone ! Jesus will say " depart from me , i never knew you " Interesting that it says the ones who will enter are the ones who " Do the Work of my father in heaven " John 6:29 This is the work of God , that you believe in whom he sent "

Not because they didnt give God 100% committment , do any of us really do that 24 / 7 ?

What I meant by the 100% was surrender, we need to surrender 100% of our will and our life over to God. Of' course we will continue to sin for the rest of our lives but not willfully, we will fall into sin but we won't seek to sin. We won't plan to sin as we did before we were converted.

Those who Jesus will turn away were never truly converted, they may have lived as model Christians. they may have been good parents, gave lots of money to the Church and the poor and done every other good work but they weren't truly converted.

The sobering fact is that something like 90% of those who identify as Christian are going to hell. The Bible is clear, the road to hell is wide and many travel on it.

 

[Slayer]

Have you ever noticed what year and make of car your pastor drives?
Have you been to his house?


You misunderstand the parable of the talents. It isn't about money. It is about the gifts , the talents, the creator gives to each one of us. And how we then choose to use them in his service. Or not. And our accountability in that regard.
This does not mean we have to work to keep the grace filled irrevocable gift of God's salvation. It means, when we are blessed to be saved from our former identity as worldly and fail to then use the gifts, the talents, God has given us to serve his purpose, we will make accounting of why. Why we squandered what we had to work with so as to be servants to those in need of our talents.

I don't need to elaborate because I'm sure you know how serious God is about giving, He will cast those who didn't give enough into he lake of fire. So giving sacrificially is a must for Christians, it's not optional

I'd appreciate you posting the scripture or scriptures that teach that very thing word for word please.
If your pastor has taught this I would imagine he would cite the scripture from whence his teaching was derived.[/QUOTE]

Matt:25-26-30 Explains how God will deal with those who didn't give him enough money. I'm surprised you know so little about the Bible, yet you are quick to accuse. It exposes you as ignorant and unloving of your brethren.

The parable below is a reference to those who God gave talents, (which is you and me), He wants us to use our talents to the best of our ability and make as much money as we can so we can give more to His Church and He being the head of the Church means we are giving the money to Him.

My pastor drives a beautiful late model car and he has a very nice house, just as God expects him to have. He's not a loser who drives an old car and lives in a trailer. God wants His people to prosper, that's why He gave us talents. We glorify God by having nice houses and cars, it shows that we are good stewards of the talents He has given us.

Don't be jealous of successful Christians, we should encourage each other to achieve great things and earn as much money as we can. So don't come here trying to glorify poverty, it is offensive to Gods people. Drunkards and drug addicts and lazy people fall into poverty because they rebel against God, so He doesn't bless their finances.

Now read the last portion of the parable of the talents and you can see that god casts unprofitable servants into hell, where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed?
27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents.
29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

 

[Slayer]

Does your pastor also teach that the following passage applies to "the Church which is His body":

"28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory [see also Matt25:31-34 for its timing], ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." [see also Lk22:30,16,18 and Matt26:29].


Does he grasp the distinction between Revelation 19:7 [re: "the Marriage" involving the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"] and Revelation 19:9 [re: the "marriage FEAST/SUPPER" involving the INVITED "guests [PLURAL]"]? Or does he just blur it (and all related passages) all together indistinguishably?? Sounds as though he does the latter.

Not many grasp the difference.

Of' course they are separate events, I've heard sermons on those many times. Last week we heard how all of us will receive different rewards in heaven, many falsely believe we all receive the same reward. The Bible says we will all be rewarded according to our works, those who didn't give much money to God will receive a small reward and those who gave generously will receive a hundred fold.

So we are all encouraged to give as much as possible, so our reward will be great in heaven. the Bible is very clear about this and there are too many scriptures to list which make this truth abundantly clear.

God blesses those who use their talent, by prospering them so they have an abundance of money to give to the Church to do Gods work. I find that those in our Church who give the least, prosper the least and those who give sacrificially are blessed with abundance.

Before I was converted, my business suffered because I used to take advantage of people and the word got out and I lost customers. But after I was converted I started to run the business in a honest way and then things slowly got better and better and it's booming and I can contribute a large amount of money every week.

God blesses those who obey Him, He wants to bless all of His people but He will not bless their finances until they obey Him and give sacrificially. He is testing us all the time, so don't think that God is not directly involved with our financial affairs.