What is the meaning of Hebrews 4?
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Well IMO, there is a time to be gentle and to be stern, I think we need to be in His Spirit to act properly in every situation. I know I don;t always act properly. But I think as long as we are growing in His direction we do well, none are perfect and we are all seeking Him. My big issuse is it seems, all humans, myself included, are stuck in a lot of tradition, even when shown different its hard to break habits. I grew up being taught much differently than I believe today, as a child I did not know the world welll enough to know any different, after studying myself, praying, seeking I came to find His word said different than what I was taught... I just want Him, His way, HIs word, His will. Im not perfect but I want His way.
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let's honor God's perfect sacrifice and worship HIM....Jesus as the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world ..as said by John the cousin of Jesus
and not a day of the week
Hebrews 4 is telling us not to miss the promised REST of God
now how is that only metaphor for the physical land of Israel since no Gentile was given that promise?
you cannot understand Hebrews 4 as only metaphor for the 4th commandment when it speaks of rest
that is ignoring the sacrifice...the final sacrifice of that was actually the ONLY one that completely does away with sin since the blood of animals could never do that
and not a day of the week
Hebrews 4 is telling us not to miss the promised REST of God
now how is that only metaphor for the physical land of Israel since no Gentile was given that promise?
you cannot understand Hebrews 4 as only metaphor for the 4th commandment when it speaks of rest
that is ignoring the sacrifice...the final sacrifice of that was actually the ONLY one that completely does away with sin since the blood of animals could never do that
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You started talking about the trinity in a thread that sked the question "are Messiah's words abouve all other Scripture writers?" And you did even use Scripture the majority of your ps=osts in that thread are pointed at me. WOuld you like me to quote them? Your still doing it now... you you you, if someone was so worried about anothers belief they would show them their wrror in the word, not talk about how bad said persons character is.
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I'm wondering why the op cannot stay on the topic of his own op and must resort to ad hominum attacks, irregardless if someone else did so or not?
which is more important?
discussing scripture or discussing other forum members who irk us?
guess that fits into Hominums 15:34...but not sure if that compares to Hebrews or not?
which is more important?
discussing scripture or discussing other forum members who irk us?
guess that fits into Hominums 15:34...but not sure if that compares to Hebrews or not?
BUt jus to give you one of my thoughts, and I have more on this, but just one thing.
WHy can I not say "do not steal is changed or donw away" I dont steal in Messiah now! and if you say dont steal is still valid then you ignoring is Sacrifice. (im not saying that just using an example)
also honoring the 7th day Sabbath is not "wporshipping a day" that is dishonest. YHWH says:
Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”
John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
ALso it is a day for doing His will only, so how is one worshpping a day by dedicating thier time to knowing Him and doing His will? and to say "do it every day" yes we should and do seek Him every day, but NO HUMAN can make every day "SET APART" the secoond one does their own will, while it may not be sin, it is in the same no loger set apart to YHWH.
WHy can I not say "do not steal is changed or donw away" I dont steal in Messiah now! and if you say dont steal is still valid then you ignoring is Sacrifice. (im not saying that just using an example)
also honoring the 7th day Sabbath is not "wporshipping a day" that is dishonest. YHWH says:
Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”
John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
ALso it is a day for doing His will only, so how is one worshpping a day by dedicating thier time to knowing Him and doing His will? and to say "do it every day" yes we should and do seek Him every day, but NO HUMAN can make every day "SET APART" the secoond one does their own will, while it may not be sin, it is in the same no loger set apart to YHWH.
I'm wondering why the op cannot stay on the topic of his own op and must resort to ad hominum attacks, irregardless if someone else did so or not?
which is more important?
discussing scripture or discussing other forum members who irk us?
guess that fits into Hominums 15:34...but not sure if that compares to Hebrews or not?
which is more important?
discussing scripture or discussing other forum members who irk us?
guess that fits into Hominums 15:34...but not sure if that compares to Hebrews or not?
If youre being HONEST about your intents please stop having a pre concieved agenda and be OPEN to what other people say and believe..people are PASSIONATE for what they believe too..just like you but you cant learn anything if youre minds already made up that youre right bout everything
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If youre being HONEST about your intents please stop having a pre concieved agenda and be OPEN to what other people say and believe..people are PASSIONATE for what they believe too..just like you but you cant learn anything if youre minds already made up that youre right bout everything
Also anyone that provides Scriptual debate, evidence, views etc will start a dialogue on that topic. You are the one not talking Scripture you are talking me. So OP topic?
Is the Messiah the "sun of righteousness" and did He come in the 4th millennium?
What is the usage and meaning of "sabbatismos"
Is the "heal us after 2 days, raise us up in the 3rd day" about Messiah His return and resurrection of the saints?
If we track the geneology since adam does the timeline and everything I have stated here fit into the idea of 6 days for man 7th day is the 1,000 year reign?
When Messiah says "unless heaven and earth pass" Did that already happen and if not what does this mean? Tradition ignored this, but it is His words, this is vital IMO.
etc etc etc Scriptual topics...
NOt to get off topic but I have too.. A friend of mine grew up in a weekly childrens bible study and they alternated weeks and had to memorize a Scripture and read it in fromnt of the other children. He told me they told the children they could not use "Jesus wept" because all of them kept using that one! So funny! But what a blessing for children to be able to dweel on His words from a young age even if they do not understand how important they are at that time!
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what is dishonest is telling Gentiles they have somehow turned into Jews now...and not only Jews, but have just been given the 10 commandments at the base of Mt Sinai and are to keep covenant with God that is retro-active. a covenant that no one ever kept because everyone has sinneed
therefore, it is illogical and misrepresentational to conclude that observance of any one day as binding on non- Jews or Jews period...since there Messiah has come...is in effect
Exodus pre-dates the new covenant and you did not partake in the exodus after which the book of Exodus is named
it is illogical to put yourself in a 40 year trudge through the desert...when God has secured eternal rest in the Son
why do you follow shadows of the real thing?
EVERY day is a day we are to do the will of God.
Jesus gave us new commandments which are actually a condensed version of the 10
and whatr happened to Hebrews 4?
therefore, it is illogical and misrepresentational to conclude that observance of any one day as binding on non- Jews or Jews period...since there Messiah has come...is in effect
Exodus pre-dates the new covenant and you did not partake in the exodus after which the book of Exodus is named
it is illogical to put yourself in a 40 year trudge through the desert...when God has secured eternal rest in the Son
why do you follow shadows of the real thing?
EVERY day is a day we are to do the will of God.
Jesus gave us new commandments which are actually a condensed version of the 10
and whatr happened to Hebrews 4?
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Following the Commands of YHWH is not "being a Jew" that is nonsense.
And again it is false to imply one does not seek to do the will of the Most High every day, but to call every day set apaart to Yah one would be a liar. Washing the dishes is not the set apart will of the Most High. So you accusation of Sabbath promotion being "only doing His will one day a week" is dishonest.
I do agree that Yahshua gave the "great 2 Commandments" (that were from the "old testament" as a summing up of the others, after all how can we love Yah and worship "hinder gods" or love our neighbor and bear false witennes or steal... we can not.
and Heb 4, yeah you seem to go on another tangent then tell me im off track, also if you look to my original posts my beliefs are explined in detail with Scripture...
And again it is false to imply one does not seek to do the will of the Most High every day, but to call every day set apaart to Yah one would be a liar. Washing the dishes is not the set apart will of the Most High. So you accusation of Sabbath promotion being "only doing His will one day a week" is dishonest.
I do agree that Yahshua gave the "great 2 Commandments" (that were from the "old testament" as a summing up of the others, after all how can we love Yah and worship "hinder gods" or love our neighbor and bear false witennes or steal... we can not.
and Heb 4, yeah you seem to go on another tangent then tell me im off track, also if you look to my original posts my beliefs are explined in detail with Scripture...
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are you arguing with yourself?
you might be because you are not actually replying to what I said
you make no distinction between the shadow of things...OT law, and the reality which is Jesus Christ
I don't remember saying So you accusation of Sabbath promotion being "only doing His will one day a week" is dishonest.
since you are a Sabbatarian the focus is on whether or not what you call the Sabbath is the rest God is speaking of
maybe respond to what I wrote concerning what God means by that and what I quoted from Psalm 95, since you are ok with going outside of Hebrews 4
God did not give the law to Gentiles but He did give His Son to Jew and Gentile alike and all under the Covenant enacted by the blood of His Son
you add to the new covenant when you stipulate things from the law...Like the Galatians did
you might be because you are not actually replying to what I said
you make no distinction between the shadow of things...OT law, and the reality which is Jesus Christ
I don't remember saying So you accusation of Sabbath promotion being "only doing His will one day a week" is dishonest.
since you are a Sabbatarian the focus is on whether or not what you call the Sabbath is the rest God is speaking of
maybe respond to what I wrote concerning what God means by that and what I quoted from Psalm 95, since you are ok with going outside of Hebrews 4
God did not give the law to Gentiles but He did give His Son to Jew and Gentile alike and all under the Covenant enacted by the blood of His Son
you add to the new covenant when you stipulate things from the law...Like the Galatians did
Sure.
Well we see things differently here. Those appointed times (Feats Days and Sabbath) are celebrations, reminders and training tools created by YHWH to learn and celebrate the rieality that is in Messiah. Would you be "making me prey" if I celebrated Christmas and Easter? 2 Non-Scriptual, noth condemmed in Scripture man made pagan festivals that have their origin not in Yah and are "philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world"
Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”
The Sabbath and Feast days are Scriptual and 100% about the Messiah, I celebrate the "Last Great Day" for example because it represents the end of the 1,000 reign and the Kingdom of YHWH being eternally placed. SOmething that is still to come and about the Messiah. The 7th day Sabbath looks forward to the Sabbath mellinnium/1,000 yr reign, where satan is bound and Yahshua will be with us in a way none of is have every experienced...yet...Maybe you are judgin me because I celebrate the things of YHWH? and not doing as the world does?
WHen you say ths to me, because you seem to be against the Sabbath, it implies I promote only seeking Yah one day a week
The reality is no humas lives set apart to Yah every minute of every day. I do and believe all should pray daily, seek Him and His will daily, do His will daily, however to say that anyone lives set apart to Him everyday is a lie. Not that watching a sports event or doing something for fun is a sin because its not, it is also not set spart to YHWH. The intent of the Sabbath is to be 100% set apart to YHWH during that time... ANyone who says they di that every day either does not understand set apart or is making their own standard of set apart....
To simplify the 7th day was set apart by YHWH at creation, thus the 7th day we are to set apart to Him and this points toward the Sabbath millennium/1,000 yr reign of Messiah... It is training and celebration of the reign of Messiah.
Well IM ok with all the Scriptures, but concerning this topic PS 95 and many many other Scriptures apply to the lesson in Hebrews 3 and 4 for that matter, if you read my original posts you will see that I used many supplementary passages concerning the lesson in Heb 4. How is this wrong and I never said it was. Now of course there are Scriptures that teach other lessons and topics, so they would not be useful for this topic.
Well I can show you where the Law and the Sabbath is given to Hebrews and Gentiles alike, Isa 56:1-7, Ex 12:48-49, Num 15:15-16.
Now under the priesthood of Yahshua, it is also clear:
Heaven and earth has not passed away;
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
So not sinning is wrong?
NO the galatins seemed to think that keeping the Law is what saved them. There is a difference between thinking the Law saves and seeking His Law because it is love and the right way to live:
Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."
1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"
Well we see things differently here. Those appointed times (Feats Days and Sabbath) are celebrations, reminders and training tools created by YHWH to learn and celebrate the rieality that is in Messiah. Would you be "making me prey" if I celebrated Christmas and Easter? 2 Non-Scriptual, noth condemmed in Scripture man made pagan festivals that have their origin not in Yah and are "philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world"
Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”
The Sabbath and Feast days are Scriptual and 100% about the Messiah, I celebrate the "Last Great Day" for example because it represents the end of the 1,000 reign and the Kingdom of YHWH being eternally placed. SOmething that is still to come and about the Messiah. The 7th day Sabbath looks forward to the Sabbath mellinnium/1,000 yr reign, where satan is bound and Yahshua will be with us in a way none of is have every experienced...yet...Maybe you are judgin me because I celebrate the things of YHWH? and not doing as the world does?
WHen you say ths to me, because you seem to be against the Sabbath, it implies I promote only seeking Yah one day a week
The reality is no humas lives set apart to Yah every minute of every day. I do and believe all should pray daily, seek Him and His will daily, do His will daily, however to say that anyone lives set apart to Him everyday is a lie. Not that watching a sports event or doing something for fun is a sin because its not, it is also not set spart to YHWH. The intent of the Sabbath is to be 100% set apart to YHWH during that time... ANyone who says they di that every day either does not understand set apart or is making their own standard of set apart....
To simplify the 7th day was set apart by YHWH at creation, thus the 7th day we are to set apart to Him and this points toward the Sabbath millennium/1,000 yr reign of Messiah... It is training and celebration of the reign of Messiah.
Well IM ok with all the Scriptures, but concerning this topic PS 95 and many many other Scriptures apply to the lesson in Hebrews 3 and 4 for that matter, if you read my original posts you will see that I used many supplementary passages concerning the lesson in Heb 4. How is this wrong and I never said it was. Now of course there are Scriptures that teach other lessons and topics, so they would not be useful for this topic.
Well I can show you where the Law and the Sabbath is given to Hebrews and Gentiles alike, Isa 56:1-7, Ex 12:48-49, Num 15:15-16.
Now under the priesthood of Yahshua, it is also clear:
Heaven and earth has not passed away;
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away…"
Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
So not sinning is wrong?
NO the galatins seemed to think that keeping the Law is what saved them. There is a difference between thinking the Law saves and seeking His Law because it is love and the right way to live:
Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."
1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”
1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"
Jesus Greater Than Moses
Heb 3:1-6 “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.”We open chapter three establishing that Jesus was greater than Moses. And that we are of the household of Jesus. This is conditional that our hope/faith in confidence remains.
A Rest for the People of God
Heb. 3:7-19 “Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”We finish chapter three which just keeps repeating that the Israelites of that generation were rejected. That was because they were stubborn and inclined to sinfulness. It tells us God swore they were not to enter His rest, because of their unbelief.
Heb. 4:1-7 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.”
We continue in chapter four being exhorted to fear lest we fall short in the faith from God’s word being properly consumed. Here is verse four (in green above) in ESV:
Heb. 4:4 “For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”” He seems to compare God’s resting on the seventh day as part of this rest.
He continues with that some have yet to enter this rest because of their unbelief. Here is verse seven (in purple above) in ESV: Heb. 4:7 “again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”” He states that God used David to warn us to watch our hardened hearts.
Heb. 4:8, 9 “For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.” He goes on to tell us Jesus’ work has not yet accomplished carrying us to His rest.
Heb. 4:10-13 “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” We continue to be exhorted work toward that rest because God’s word leaves us bare and exposed.
Jesus the Great High Priest
Heb. 4:14-16 “Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”Finally, we are reminded that Christ is our High Priest making intercession for us as we work.
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