What is the meaning of Hebrews 4?
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@Absolutely
Difference between the old and new?
Jeremiah 31:31-34 English Standard Version (ESV)
The New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
To ME this make the literal OT law to PERSONAL in NT law...
Difference between the old and new?
Jeremiah 31:31-34 English Standard Version (ESV)
The New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
To ME this make the literal OT law to PERSONAL in NT law...
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Two kinds of laws . One a moral law to govern the whole world and two, ceremonial laws that governs ceremonies as shadows of the good to come.
The ten commandment give both the ceremonial law as different than the moral laws.
It is shown by using two different reasons to identify the sabbath rest we do have . Moral laws do not use parables as different reasonings.
Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, (the reason) and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Deuteronomy 5:13-15
The Exodus account Both representing the gospel in different ways
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days (the reason) the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:9-11
Ceremonial laws are shadows of the eternal rest to come in the new heavens and earth .A different kind of sabbath than which we find in Hebrew 4
E
1st, You need to go back and reread what most of us have said,
2nd, after you remove your foot from your mouth. You will see we do not have discust for the law. we have discust for those who claim we are saved by the law. Which is against the word of God.
3rd. if you too believe you are saved by how good you are and how well you obey the law. You need to figure out what the gospel is. because i fear you may be what many call a modern day pharisee, or Jewish roots.
as for what God did, He showed us how to obey the law. Not by following the law. But by learning the law of love, If you think your righteous because you obey commands and that is your focus. that is called self righteousness, and You are in danger.
2nd, after you remove your foot from your mouth. You will see we do not have discust for the law. we have discust for those who claim we are saved by the law. Which is against the word of God.
3rd. if you too believe you are saved by how good you are and how well you obey the law. You need to figure out what the gospel is. because i fear you may be what many call a modern day pharisee, or Jewish roots.
as for what God did, He showed us how to obey the law. Not by following the law. But by learning the law of love, If you think your righteous because you obey commands and that is your focus. that is called self righteousness, and You are in danger.
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How can you sapeak so harsly and proclaim what I do or don't believe, seems to me you just want to slander without offering any Scripture. It does not seem to be a "Bible Debate" but a focus on me personally. I beleive the plan of Salvation as laid out by YHWH, yes His plan told in the Scripture is different than main stream tradition. I will go with the word thank you.
Well this timeline shows "the sun righteousness" arriving at His correct time, a fulfilled Messanic prophecy and shows the Sabbath Millenium, so I think it a wonderful truth of Yah, but not vital to salvation. Also you know why we don't know the exact time He will return? Because He gives us signs to know He is "near even at the door" Because He returns at the day of Trumpets, a day that NO MAN knows the day or hour, not even NASA can predict with 100% accuracy. The gospel is in the Feast Days of YHWH.
No I am not, I am a former gentile that is grafted into Israel by Yahshua. In Yahshua/Jesus there is no difference.
Well this timeline shows "the sun righteousness" arriving at His correct time, a fulfilled Messanic prophecy and shows the Sabbath Millenium, so I think it a wonderful truth of Yah, but not vital to salvation. Also you know why we don't know the exact time He will return? Because He gives us signs to know He is "near even at the door" Because He returns at the day of Trumpets, a day that NO MAN knows the day or hour, not even NASA can predict with 100% accuracy. The gospel is in the Feast Days of YHWH.
No I am not, I am a former gentile that is grafted into Israel by Yahshua. In Yahshua/Jesus there is no difference.
Do you have Scripture that says "Jesus is the Sabbath?"
Also Yahshua/Jesus broke the man made law in the Talmud not the Law of YHWH. If He is the sinless Lamb how does He actulally sin? He does not, but what He does do is break and make a spectacle of the rabbis, pharisees, and suducees at every chance He gets... They added hundreds of man made laws just to the Sabbath alone... In what they call the "oral torah" or the "Talmud"
Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."
Mat 23:4, “For they (the pharisees not YHWH) bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.”
How do they “bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them?”
New International Version - Mat 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."
King James Bible - Mat 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and their ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."
Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.
Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.
Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud. The Savior said this to the Pharisees;
Mat 23:8, “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi, (master)’ for One is your Master, the Messiah, and you are all brothers.”
Also Yahshua/Jesus broke the man made law in the Talmud not the Law of YHWH. If He is the sinless Lamb how does He actulally sin? He does not, but what He does do is break and make a spectacle of the rabbis, pharisees, and suducees at every chance He gets... They added hundreds of man made laws just to the Sabbath alone... In what they call the "oral torah" or the "Talmud"
Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."
Mat 23:4, “For they (the pharisees not YHWH) bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.”
How do they “bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them?”
New International Version - Mat 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."
King James Bible - Mat 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and their ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."
Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.
Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.
Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud. The Savior said this to the Pharisees;
Mat 23:8, “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi, (master)’ for One is your Master, the Messiah, and you are all brothers.”
BECAUSE OF YOUR POSTS IN OTHER THREADS YOU START....i dont conjure these things up randomly bout people!
Btw. The "Word" is prone to a persons understanding and interpretation of it" so you thinking theres only YOUR way of believing and everyone else is wrong like you tried to do in the other thread is NOT ME slanddering you but what you YOURSELF stated..
Btw. The "Word" is prone to a persons understanding and interpretation of it" so you thinking theres only YOUR way of believing and everyone else is wrong like you tried to do in the other thread is NOT ME slanddering you but what you YOURSELF stated..
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okay
Hebrews 4 is about entering into the rest of God.
compare that with Psalm 95
Today, if only you would hear his voice,
8 “Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,
as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
so perhaps the question becomes if God declared the Israelites He was speaking to would NEVER enter His rest, how does He do that?
do we now have a six day week? did He chop off half the week-end? well that would make Sunday THE day, but no, He didn't do that
obviously what God is referring to is what Hebrews 4 is speaking of. He is saying the same in Hebrews that He was saying in Psalm 95
as we read in v. 8 of Psalm 95, if you hear His voice don't harden your heart
so is a day of the week equated with salvation or is the gift of God of eternal life through Christ Jesus, the ETERNAL rest God offers?
yet people continue to glorify a day of the week
Hebrews 4 is about entering into the rest of God.
compare that with Psalm 95
Today, if only you would hear his voice,
8 “Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,
as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
so perhaps the question becomes if God declared the Israelites He was speaking to would NEVER enter His rest, how does He do that?
do we now have a six day week? did He chop off half the week-end? well that would make Sunday THE day, but no, He didn't do that
obviously what God is referring to is what Hebrews 4 is speaking of. He is saying the same in Hebrews that He was saying in Psalm 95
as we read in v. 8 of Psalm 95, if you hear His voice don't harden your heart
so is a day of the week equated with salvation or is the gift of God of eternal life through Christ Jesus, the ETERNAL rest God offers?
yet people continue to glorify a day of the week
How was I mean? I was just told "you dont even believe in the plan of salvation " and get personal attacks all the time here... Please, please post a single post of mine where I am rude to another member, and I will repent of it, however if you caon not show me my error, I would like to ask why are you claiming this about me particularly when others call me "pharisee" "lawyer" and all kinds of things? With that said we can alwys be more gentle, but I want to say comprimising with the world rather than standing on Scriptual truth is not being gentle...
Of course everyone has theor own beliefs, you seem to have an issue with me, look at your posts to me 9 out of 10 oif them are about me and not about Scripture, never using Scripture to correct what you say Im wrong in. If my doctrine were so false you could quote my posts and put Scripture next to it to show it was false. But its just you talking about me. This is not benefical to an honest Scriptual discussion/debate.
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interesting thing to note, it seems many 'converted' Gentiles (converted to quasi Judaism) are more religious in their pursuit of observing 'convenient' law (that which they deem doable since sacrificing lambs and such is frowned upon in most neighborhoods) than those chosen by God to represent Him in the original covenant made with Him after their release from slavery in Egypt
I've hobnobbed with a good number of ACTUAL Jewish folk who have come to believe in their Messiah and they don't understood that at all
I've hobnobbed with a good number of ACTUAL Jewish folk who have come to believe in their Messiah and they don't understood that at all
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Ok so, if we look to chapter 3 we can see that "entering" is an metaphor for entering the "promised land"
Hebrews 3:16-19, “For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
I submit the idea that "entering His rest" is this:
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"
The Sabbbath is just like the 7 other moadim/appointed times, and teach and show about the Messiah and His works, thus the 7th day Sabbath is a "shadow of good thigns to come" The millennial reign of Messiah. That is why " Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest" this is the true rest Yahshua offers, eternal life in His kingdom. Now this is explaine in much more detail earlier in this thread but that is a basic overview of my belief. That the true rest is the eternal kingdom and the Sabbath looks forward to that.
Hebrews 3:16-19, “For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
I submit the idea that "entering His rest" is this:
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"
The Sabbbath is just like the 7 other moadim/appointed times, and teach and show about the Messiah and His works, thus the 7th day Sabbath is a "shadow of good thigns to come" The millennial reign of Messiah. That is why " Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest" this is the true rest Yahshua offers, eternal life in His kingdom. Now this is explaine in much more detail earlier in this thread but that is a basic overview of my belief. That the true rest is the eternal kingdom and the Sabbath looks forward to that.
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which is explicitly frowned upon by scripture
the book of Judges was actually a dark period in Israel's history and not really an example of how a Christian believes
whatever happened to the truth delivered once and for all?
Paul shot down all these so called 'religious' dictates but then again we must remember that most Sabbatarians do not think Paul had an unction from God in the first place
how convenient
the book of Judges was actually a dark period in Israel's history and not really an example of how a Christian believes
whatever happened to the truth delivered once and for all?
Paul shot down all these so called 'religious' dictates but then again we must remember that most Sabbatarians do not think Paul had an unction from God in the first place
how convenient
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whoah
so let's flip and now discuss possibly the third chapter as well because somebody thinks that says anything that disagrees with chapter 4?
LOL!
how 'bout we stick with the op...YOUR op and discuss chapter 4 of Hebrews?
I'm good either way, but I think it's pretty funny how you wanna back it up now
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I cant speak for veryone but concerning my this os conflating 2 different things. Honoring the 4th Commandment as Yahsua taught:
Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
does not mean one wants to "Sacrifice animals"
really a poor attempt at painting with a broad brush here...
what if I did the same to you? do you want to worship idols and stateus with the pope because you have some similarity in doctrine? (I dont believe you do but to set up that strawman is dishonets is it not?)
Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
does not mean one wants to "Sacrifice animals"
really a poor attempt at painting with a broad brush here...
what if I did the same to you? do you want to worship idols and stateus with the pope because you have some similarity in doctrine? (I dont believe you do but to set up that strawman is dishonets is it not?)
Ive posted several on the other thread ..you didnt acknowledge or saud they were wrong..ive agreed with others here and you thought THEY were wrong and yes..I DID post scripture and the fact that you didnt yet even acknowledge THAT proves my point..you DECIEVE people with your pre agenda and THATS wrong...THATS the issue i have with you and you CONTINUE to do it..i dont need a SCRIPTURE for this YOU DO IT TO YOURSELF...nobody else does that TO you..YOU do this so please stop challenging me by wanting me to quote scripture..ive DONE it..you maybe need to do more LISTENING to people and ACCEPTING if thier views are different instead of being stubborn and saying everyone is wrong accept you...
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