There will be no last day judgement for the elect.

[notuptome]

If God chastens all those that he loves, why is it that he does not chasten the wicked (natural man, void of the Spirit). Could it be that he does not love some people? Ps 73:5, They are not PLAGUED ( divinely punished ) as other men.

Well that is an unlearned statement. Do sinners get sick? Do sinners get cancer? Do sinners have infant babies die? Why do you persist to judge God?

Stop sticking your nose in everyone's business and pay attention to your relationship with God. Don't worry what God is doing with others just pay attention to what He is doing with you.

Jesus had to deal with this even with His disciples.

Joh 21:22-23 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

Thank you Peter for being once again an example of bad behavior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I believe you are rather confused about this matter. When God chastens His people, it is not for judgment but it is a process of purification, that they are ultimately conformed to the likeness of Christ. See Hebrews 12.

1. The judgment of those who are believers was applied to the Lamb of God, who suffered and died for the sins of the whole world, but whose finished work applies only to those who have been saved by grace through faith. See Isaiah 53.

2. Children of God will be judged for their works at the Judgment Seat of Christ. There will be rewards or loss of rewards, but their salvation will be secure in Christ.

3. Those who are not saved will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, and they will be judged (1) for their works and (2) for their presence in or absence from the Lamb's Book of Life. Which means also that there will be degree of punishment in Hell (as supported by other Scriptures).

It says when he chastens them he is correcting them. Sounds like God has judged that they have been bad and is putting the rod of correction upon them. Does Christ say, "inter in ye good and faithful servants to heaven prepared for you from the foundation of the world."?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Well that is an unlearned statement. Do sinners get sick? Do sinners get cancer? Do sinners have infant babies die? Why do you persist to judge God?

Stop sticking your nose in everyone's business and pay attention to your relationship with God. Don't worry what God is doing with others just pay attention to what He is doing with you.

Jesus had to deal with this even with His disciples.

Joh 21:22-23 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

Thank you Peter for being once again an example of bad behavior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It sounds as if you did not even read Ps 73, did you? And if so, it is amazing that you could make such a statement that is right the opposite of what the chapter says.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It sounds as if you did not even read Ps 73, did you? And if so, it is amazing that you could make such a statement that is right the opposite of what the chapter says.

You can put Ps 73 in the same bucket with 1 Cor 2:14 as those scriptures that you can not adequately understand enough to explain.

 

[LPT]

Did God chose everyone or only His favorites?

To be chosen one must have this in your freezer... Thus elected.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are attempting to understand the bible through sound bites. You proof text snippets of scripture and weave them into doctrine that is not doctrine. You are not able to receive strong meat but milk.

You are turning election on it's head to support a behavior that is not taught in the bible. Did God hate Esau? For those who are only reading the surface it certainly would seem so but those who know God know that God loved Esau. God hated what God knew Esau was going to do in relation to his inheritance. Now one using your reasoning might question why God in His Sovereignty did not intervene and cause Esau to patiently wait for his inheritance instead of trading it for a bowl of beans. Jacob tricked Isaac into giving him the blessing due the first born son but God still honored the blessing. So how do we make this simple enough for you to comprehend it? Well God loves sinners. God hates sin but loves the sinner.

God has declared that every soul that sinneth will die. God has also declared that the gift of eternal life is a gift only He can give. Jesus said that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Do you believe Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God has declared that every soul that sinneth will die. How convenient that you don't reference your scripture quotes. If you are implying that every sinner will die and go to hell, that is absurd. Jesus said that whosoever believeth in me should not perish but have everlasting life. The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot believe in spiritual things. What have I told you about the words, believe, confess, repent, accept etc they are never used in reference to the natural man, only to the disobedient spiritual men. Thats the reason I told you to put it in the bucket of things that Roger can not explain.

 

[dcontroversal]

Bema seat of Christ for the saved (rewarded or loss of rewards) Salvation secure

Great White Throne for the LOST (judged by the books of the law) found guilty and cast into the lake of fire

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What you're saying...we make the choice and can choose to do good but still go to hell...but we cannot choose Christ to receive forgiveness of sins and go to heaven...that's God choice.

Ps 53:2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy; there is none that "DOETH GOOD, NO, NOT ONE". This is what God saw by his foreknowledge. So the natural man will not choose to do good.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hebrews 12: KJV
6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. {7} If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? {8} But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. {9} Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

Yes God chastens us in this world.. He does allow us to suffer the consequences of our sin actions on this earth.. But that chastening is in the here and now,, on earth in this life.. It does not happen in eternity..

Revelation 3: KJV
19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

Exactly, Thanks for your input. There are those that he does not chasten, therefore, he does not love them. Ps 73:5, They are not PLAGUED ( divinely punished ) as other men.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Chastening applies to children, not strangers. Parents discipline their own children, not those of others. So God chastens only His children, and those without chastisement must understand that they are not children of God.

Furthermore, God reserves His judgments for the wicked, therefore He allows them to prosper. There are several Psalms which address this issue.

I agree, and the fact that the wicked are not chastened, means God does not love them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are the one talking of works not me. I am talking about the perfect character of God which you are changing into the capricious nature of men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No matter how you try to disguise your works, they are still works if you have to respond with, believe, confess, repent, accept etc before God will eternally save you. You are taking some credit in allowing God to save you. God should get all the credit.

 

[John146]

I agree, and the fact that the wicked are not chastened, means God does not love them.

So, you only love your children and not others? Your logic, not mine.

Believing upon the gospel and trusting Christ to save you from your sins is not taking any credit at all, on the contrary, it is recognizing the Lord as the only source of salvation. Your use of phrases may make you feel better about your theology, but they are in vain when viewed from Scripture.

 

[PennEd]

Something I think we tend to miss is that we are NOT all Children of God. We are all CREATIONS of God, but so are animals, trees, Earth etc..

The lost are not God's children. We become His Child through the new birth and adoption He gives us in Jesus.

 

[notuptome]

No matter how you try to disguise your works, they are still works if you have to respond with, believe, confess, repent, accept etc before God will eternally save you. You are taking some credit in allowing God to save you. God should get all the credit.

Oh my! How can you even conceive of such nonsense. You expect God to forgive your sins and welcome you into His presence for eternity if you do nothing? You cannot even accept the gift of eternal life?

You must believe to receive. Consider the two malefactors crucified with Christ. One asked the Lord for forgiveness and was given a promise of the kingdom of God. The other would not ask for forgiveness and was lost for eternity.

Works follow salvation but there are no works to obtain salvation. What a sad case for those who expect God to save them just because of who they consider themselves to be.

Election is the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. Man had an active part in his sin so man must receive the forgiveness God offers. Not merited but offered in mercy and grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Something I think we tend to miss is that we are NOT all Children of God. We are all CREATIONS of God, but so are animals, trees, Earth etc..

The lost are not God's children. We become His Child through the new birth and adoption He gives us in Jesus.

I would offer another some tend to miss. The final judgement is not a trial but the execution of the will of God. The second death cast into the lake of fire. There will be no double jeopardy.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that "whosoever believeth" in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that "believeth" on him is not condemned: but he that "believeth not" is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God .John 3:16-18

 

[garee]

Oh my! How can you even conceive of such nonsense. You expect God to forgive your sins and welcome you into His presence for eternity if you do nothing? You cannot even accept the gift of eternal life?

You must believe to receive. Consider the two malefactors crucified with Christ. One asked the Lord for forgiveness and was given a promise of the kingdom of God. The other would not ask for forgiveness and was lost for eternity.

Works follow salvation but there are no works to obtain salvation. What a sad case for those who expect God to save them just because of who they consider themselves to be.

Election is the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. Man had an active part in his sin so man must receive the forgiveness God offers. Not merited but offered in mercy and grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If man has no faith by which they could beleive God how could they have a active part? Christ must do the first work giving us the faith of Christ which comes from hearing God before we can beleive (exercise faith).

I would offer in respect the to two malefactors crucified with Christ. One was given the faith that comes from hearing God to beleive God . The other once enlightened refused to beleive God even he though he did hear God. Like Cain and Abel . One had faith, the free gift needed to believe Christ , the other did not.

Better things accompany salvation than for those in Hebrews 6 , like redemption . God will not forget the love we show towards His name.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So, you only love your children and not others? Your logic, not mine.

Believing upon the gospel and trusting Christ to save you from your sins is not taking any credit at all, on the contrary, it is recognizing the Lord as the only source of salvation. Your use of phrases may make you feel better about your theology, but they are in vain when viewed from Scripture.

All scripture must harmonize. Not my logic, but Christ's. When I quote scripture word for word, you make them harmonize with your doctrinal beliefs. Such as 1 Cor 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. The natural man cannot believe on a spiritual gospel, it is foolishness unto him.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If man has no faith by which they could beleive God how could they have a active part? Christ must do the first work giving us the faith of Christ which comes from hearing God before we can beleive (exercise faith).

I would offer in respect the to two malefactors crucified with Christ. One was given the faith that comes from hearing God to beleive God . The other once enlightened refused to beleive God even he though he did hear God. Like Cain and Abel . One had faith, the free gift needed to believe Christ , the other did not.

Better things accompany salvation than for those in Hebrews 6 , like redemption . God will not forget the love we show towards His name.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

I am afraid that you do not understand the condition of the natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, before God regenerates him Eph 2:5. Once you have the Spirit of God dwelling within you, you have faith, because, Gal 5:22, faith is a fruit of the Spirit. You, first, have to have the Spirit before you have faith. You can improve your faith by gaining a knowledge of the gospel, but the gospel is not what gives you the foundation of faith. You are right about the two thieves on the cross, one already had spiritual faith and the other one was just a natural man, void of the Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I would offer another some tend to miss. The final judgement is not a trial but the execution of the will of God. The second death cast into the lake of fire. There will be no double jeopardy.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that "whosoever believeth" in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that "believeth" on him is not condemned: but he that "believeth not" is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God .John 3:16-18

The word "WORLD" in John 3:16-17, is translated by Thayer,s Greek translation as "BELIEVERS ONLY". Not to include the natural man, void of the Spirit. You are right about there being no last day judgement for the children of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Oh my! How can you even conceive of such nonsense. You expect God to forgive your sins and welcome you into His presence for eternity if you do nothing? You cannot even accept the gift of eternal life?

You must believe to receive. Consider the two malefactors crucified with Christ. One asked the Lord for forgiveness and was given a promise of the kingdom of God. The other would not ask for forgiveness and was lost for eternity.

Works follow salvation but there are no works to obtain salvation. What a sad case for those who expect God to save them just because of who they consider themselves to be.

Election is the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. Man had an active part in his sin so man must receive the forgiveness God offers. Not merited but offered in mercy and grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Like I have told you before, you are believing those scriptures that use repent, confess, accept believe etc. to having reference to the natural man and instead they are actually referencing the disobedient child of God. You are going to have get those scriptures out of (your don't understand bucket) and try to make them harmonize with the repent, confess, accept, believe scriptures.