OSAS= House Built on Sand
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You still don’t get it.
You are not following the context or the point Jesus is making to His audience.
His target audience — the pharisees and scribes who murmured because Jesus received publicans and sinners and ate with them - Luke 15:2.
Since that is His target audience, are the scribes and pharisees the one who wandered off, the one who is lost, the one who returned to his father?
No! The pharisees and scribes are the ninety and nine.
The pharisees and scribes are the one son who was angry and would not go in to rejoice upon the return of his wayward brother.
The pharisees and scribes are those who are referred to in Luke 16:15 Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
To quote you “You are not loving God or His people when you don’t teach the truth of what Jesus plainly taught.”
Do as you tell me I must do and share what Jesus taught IN CONTEXT.
You are not following the context or the point Jesus is making to His audience.
His target audience — the pharisees and scribes who murmured because Jesus received publicans and sinners and ate with them - Luke 15:2.
Since that is His target audience, are the scribes and pharisees the one who wandered off, the one who is lost, the one who returned to his father?
No! The pharisees and scribes are the ninety and nine.
The pharisees and scribes are the one son who was angry and would not go in to rejoice upon the return of his wayward brother.
The pharisees and scribes are those who are referred to in Luke 16:15 Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
To quote you “You are not loving God or His people when you don’t teach the truth of what Jesus plainly taught.”
Do as you tell me I must do and share what Jesus taught IN CONTEXT.
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Have to believe, the way you put it, is you relying on yourself and your will to be saved and stay saved.
Believing is a gift. It is not something you HAVE to do. It is something you are given.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Believing is a gift. It is not something you HAVE to do. It is something you are given.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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The measure of faith that saves has been given as a gift by God and we are BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE BY INCORRUPTABLE SEED ETERNALLY.....if you're too dense to understand that simple biblcal truth I suggest you lay your phone down, pray and go back to the milk until you get it right.....all you are doing is digging your hole deeper into the plenteous in number group!
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& my incompetence, my sloth . . . ?
that's a sheep that is busy with his face in the grass and doesn't follow the Shepherd when He calls -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to go find him. that's a sheep who isn't paying attention to what he's doing and falls off a cliff or gets stuck in a brier -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to rescue him.
even if i'm torn to pieces by wolves, this is a Shepherd who brings the dead to life and restores the broken to wholeness
i believe that even if i, by incompetence, slothfulness and idiocy, am chastised by Him even to the point of my physical death, He remains faithful to me, and what He is doing with His chastising is purging me from evil. if He has to return me to dust to remake me, amen, i trust Him, and i desire it if that is what must be done to keep me in Him. though my body be destroyed, that my soul be redeemed.
it's unbelief that damns -- disbelief in His atonement and faithfulness. isn't 'those who went out from us' ((re: 1 John 2)) those who stop believing in His perfect work and faithfulness?
that's a sheep that is busy with his face in the grass and doesn't follow the Shepherd when He calls -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to go find him. that's a sheep who isn't paying attention to what he's doing and falls off a cliff or gets stuck in a brier -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to rescue him.
even if i'm torn to pieces by wolves, this is a Shepherd who brings the dead to life and restores the broken to wholeness
i believe that even if i, by incompetence, slothfulness and idiocy, am chastised by Him even to the point of my physical death, He remains faithful to me, and what He is doing with His chastising is purging me from evil. if He has to return me to dust to remake me, amen, i trust Him, and i desire it if that is what must be done to keep me in Him. though my body be destroyed, that my soul be redeemed.
it's unbelief that damns -- disbelief in His atonement and faithfulness. isn't 'those who went out from us' ((re: 1 John 2)) those who stop believing in His perfect work and faithfulness?
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U
Your theology creates a quandary of problems and unanswered questions. PennEd gave the scriptures yet you deny them, so I resort to logic since I do believe God is rational.
Did Jesus not die for the sin of idolatry ie.... loving the world?
I follow no Calvinist doctrine, probably the least Calvinistic on this board.
I have not been indoctrinated, I do my own search and study, know very little about the old testament and therefore adhere to a very simple gospel of Jesus saves to the uttermost.
The stakes are high when it comes to being cast into hell for someone who has made a true confession of faith at some point in their life without knowing how much repentance is allowed?
Are you a Calvinist in the sense that since God knows the beginning from the end those that will persevere after one chance will be saved, but if they falter too many times and not persevere then it is hell for them even though God did adopt them as a son or daughter? At least in Calvinism the person does persevere because there is no other option.
I agree that God is far above our understanding, searches our heart and knows all things, yet He is also a God of absolutes, very obvious in scripture and even the structuring of our very world and bodies.
In your theological view a person who has had a hard traumatic turn in life and has faltered in their faith (say one month) and perhaps even truly denied Christ like Peter after years of love and devotion, then is hit by a car and dies in that month is in hell.
You have no choice but to agree.
I on the other hand I can say I am 100% (God's number) eternally saved based on His work not mine.
You say, "I will trust and hold on therefore I will be saved" and give no compassion or love to someone who struggles in their Christian walk (not their saved status for they are separate) for this reason as well I deny your theology.
btw .......Hebrews........ actually assures us that it is impossible to be born again and then be born again as some Hebrews were trying to do like the blood sacrifices of the new testament, the writer of Hebrews makes it clear the attempt to recrucify Christ by trying to be born again and be born again is an insult to Christ, because it is like saying His death was not sufficient to save.
The author stater we are secure in Him on this earth (given eternal life) so move on from milk, knowledge of of the gospel and how to be saved to the meat deeper knowledge of the grace of God.
Impossible ......key word!!!
In your view that means one chance which is wrong.
"4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. " - Hebrews 6:4-6
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Jesus said the 99 were just and need no repentance.
- likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
When did the Pharisee's become justified?
Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.” 3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying: 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:1-7
The one sheep belonged to the shepherd, along with the 99, and wandered away and became lost>
While the sheep was with the shepherd [reconciled] the sheep was just, but when the sheep who belonged to the shepherd wandered away, he became lost.
Lost = Sinner in need of repentance; unjust.
The prodigal son, was the son who became lost, unreconciled to his father, until he repented and returned to his father.
29 So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. 30 But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:29-32
- It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’
JPT
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R
No, not your sloth and incompetence. HIS! Christ won't lose anyone because of his own sloth or incompetence like the old covenant priests could because he doesn't have any sloth and incompetence through which to lose anyone. That's how Christ does not lose any. Not losing anyone who comes to him does not mean they don't ever leave.
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R
You can have all the faith in the universe, but if you don't then place your trust--your believing--in that which the gift of faith (the gift of 'knowing'-Hebrews 11:1) has shown you to be true then you will not be saved.
God gives the faith, you do the trusting, with loads and loads of encouragement from God to do that trusting. But the person who stops trusting in Christ will lose his salvation if he does not come back to his senses in the time allowed by God to come back.
God gives the faith, you do the trusting, with loads and loads of encouragement from God to do that trusting. But the person who stops trusting in Christ will lose his salvation if he does not come back to his senses in the time allowed by God to come back.
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& my incompetence, my sloth . . . ?
that's a sheep that is busy with his face in the grass and doesn't follow the Shepherd when He calls -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to go find him. that's a sheep who isn't paying attention to what he's doing and falls off a cliff or gets stuck in a brier -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to rescue him.
even if i'm torn to pieces by wolves, this is a Shepherd who brings the dead to life and restores the broken to wholeness
i believe that even if i, by incompetence, slothfulness and idiocy, am chastised by Him even to the point of my physical death, He remains faithful to me, and what He is doing with His chastising is purging me from evil. if He has to return me to dust to remake me, amen, i trust Him, and i desire it if that is what must be done to keep me in Him. though my body be destroyed, that my soul be redeemed.
it's unbelief that damns -- disbelief in His atonement and faithfulness. isn't 'those who went out from us' ((re: 1 John 2)) those who stop believing in His perfect work and faithfulness?
that's a sheep that is busy with his face in the grass and doesn't follow the Shepherd when He calls -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to go find him. that's a sheep who isn't paying attention to what he's doing and falls off a cliff or gets stuck in a brier -- the Good Shepherd is faithful to rescue him.
even if i'm torn to pieces by wolves, this is a Shepherd who brings the dead to life and restores the broken to wholeness
i believe that even if i, by incompetence, slothfulness and idiocy, am chastised by Him even to the point of my physical death, He remains faithful to me, and what He is doing with His chastising is purging me from evil. if He has to return me to dust to remake me, amen, i trust Him, and i desire it if that is what must be done to keep me in Him. though my body be destroyed, that my soul be redeemed.
it's unbelief that damns -- disbelief in His atonement and faithfulness. isn't 'those who went out from us' ((re: 1 John 2)) those who stop believing in His perfect work and faithfulness?
Jesus loves us and wants us to return to Him if we become lost.
However, the teaching is to His disciples, instructing them what they must do if one of their disciples wanders away and becomes lost, since He would no longer be physically among them, they and we are to be His body to do His work, with His Spirit within us.
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?
Jesus is instructing His disciples what they need to do, in the case of one of their brothers should wander away and become lost.
James teaches us this very thing -
- if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
If we someone who is lost we ourselves must go to them to turn them back.
Jesus will be working in us to do the work of teaching and preaching, and laying hands on the sick and casting out devils...
JPT
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