Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nehemiah6 said:
There is a third option. Ignore Calvin. Arminius, and every other theologian and just stick to the Bible. What could be simpler than that?
Click to expand...
That sounds great, but everyone arrives at different conclusions when they study the Bible. So we're back at square one.
 
Musicus said:
You sure do fling the word choose around alot. You're kinda contradicting yourself in more than a few of your posts. Like in this one. It's what is called a non sequitur. If God wills it and it's predetermined it's still a choice? Huh? That's not what choice means. You may want to pick a different word. and btw, not all non-Christians do evil all the time.
Click to expand...
You can put any spin you want on the fact that God predestines and controls everything, the problem is not with God. The problem is with your fallen sinful understanding of Him.
 
Slayer said:
If Hitler said something true, is it automatically false because he said it. We don't believe in personalities, we believe in sound biblical doctrine.
Click to expand...

This is very ironic, since my experience on this discussion board is that those from the Calvinist camp have been to some degree, not all, been those that promote the stern belief that born again believers will have proof of their conversion by their behaviour, yet they do not hold their own leader to the same standard of behaviour.

Another thing I find fascinating is that we accept 80 to 90% of what we believe based on the authority of others.

While you have dismissed his personality, fair enough, you have accepted his authority without question, yet you have available the written word, the Holy Spirit and resources to help you understand the culture, the language and history to at least test the doctrine of someone you do not even know.
 
Slayer said:
You can put any spin you want on the fact that God predestines and controls everything, the problem is not with God. The problem is with your fallen sinful understanding of Him.
Click to expand...

This is always the default position.
Yes I know, we have a low, low, view of God, but imho ascribing evil to God does not make him any grander.
 
UnderGrace said:
This is very ironic, since my experience on this discussion board is that those from the Calvinist camp have been to some degree, not all, been those that promote the stern belief that born again believers will have proof of their conversion by their behaviour, yet they do not hold their own leader to the same standard of behaviour.

Another thing I find fascinating is that we accept 80 to 90% of what we believe based on the authority of others.

While you have dismissed his personality, fair enough, you have accepted his authority without question, yet you have available the written word, the Holy Spirit and resources to help you understand the culture, the language and history to at least test the doctrine of someone you do not even know.
Click to expand...
This is just the point, I have tested the doctrine against every other doctrine known to mankind and it is absolutely sound. That's why we fly the flag of Calvinism so high
 
UnderGrace said:
This is always the default position.
Yes I know, we have a low, low, view of God, but imho ascribing evil to God does not make him any grander.
Click to expand...
We don't know much about God at all do we, He's a great mystery to us. Those who pretend to know Him are fooling themselves
 
Slayer said:
This is just the point, I have tested the doctrine against every other doctrine known to mankind and it is absolutely sound. That's why we fly the flag of Calvinism so high
Click to expand...

You are indeed funny. :D

I get it though.... Calvinism is like a big security blanket, makes everything black and white.
 
vashweb2 said:
I think they are both right. God can take control of your will in the sense if it is to help you sometimes, but He does not take the totality of your will away from you. If humans did not have freewill, and God decided what we now do before the world began, We would not be account for anything we have done. We didn't write this play called life. We would all be puppets on a stage with God giving us the voices and actions to do with any control on our own. This is elementary belief that is slowly becoming outdated.
Click to expand...
I understand the scriptures differently than most of those that are referred to as Calvinistic, in that I do believe that God allowed man to have free will in the things pertaining to his life here on earth, but man's eternal destination is a choice made by the grace of God, without the help of man. Deut 10:19, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live, verse 20, That thou mayest love thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him, for this is thy life, and length of days. This is not talking about choosing eternal life, but a life in obedience to God. There are many scriptures telling the children of God to choose things, but I think our choices are influenced by ether our spiritual nature or our fleshly nature. The scriptures never tells the natural man, void of the Spirit, to choose. It is always telling the children of God to choose.
 
Slayer said:
You can put any spin you want on the fact that God predestines and controls everything, the problem is not with God. The problem is with your fallen sinful understanding of Him.
Click to expand...

Such potty mouth, fallen sinful understanding why u say that because the poster doesn't agree, in Geneva back when John Calvin was alive and his thoery doctrine was the law of Geneva if any person spoke openly that Jesus died for all, they were accused of heresy and decaputated basically murdered. I see the same in your statement basically.
 
Slayer said:
You can put any spin you want on the fact that God predestines and controls everything, the problem is not with God. The problem is with your fallen sinful understanding of Him.
Click to expand...

I dare say you share the same sinful understanding of Him ...no?

So why do you assume you are right?
 
LPT said:
Such potty mouth, fallen sinful understanding why u say that because the poster doesn't agree, in Geneva back when John Calvin was alive and his thoery doctrine was the law of Geneva if any person spoke openly that Jesus died for all, they were accused of heresy and decaputated basically murdered. I see the same in your statement basically.
Click to expand...
The truth must be protected, it's more important than individual lives. I'm not for killing people but that's because we live in the new enlightened age, where everyone's view is equally valid and there is no absolute truth. The truth is subjective and everyone makes up their own truth.

The christian community is no different, we call it ecumenicalism. The Pope invited all the religions of the world to join him in a spiritual orgy and anyone who refused to join him was branded a radical bigot and fundamental extremest.
 
UnderGrace said:
I dare say you share the same sinful understanding of Him ...no?

So why do you assume you are right?
Click to expand...
I never claimed to understand Gods ways, I have always admitted that they are as far above ours as the heavens. Only a deceived person believes they have have worked Him out.
 
Slayer said:
The truth must be protected, it's more important than individual lives. I'm not for killing people but that's because we live in the new enlightened age, where everyone's view is equally valid and there is no absolute truth. The truth is subjective and everyone makes up their own truth.

The christian community is no different, we call it ecumenicalism. The Pope invited all the religions of the world to join him in a spiritual orgy and anyone who refused to join him was branded a radical bigot and fundamental extremest.
Click to expand...

Still no reason to call the poster what you did your no different rather a enlightened age or not doesn't apply in God time.
 
Slayer said:
I never claimed to understand Gods ways, I have always admitted that they are as far above ours as the heavens. Only a deceived person believes they have have worked Him out.
Click to expand...

Most of your posts are Calvinism is right and since I believe in his doctrine I am right.

His doctrine is all about explaining the fore ordained, the foreknowledge of God, which pulls in free will and determinism etc., etc.,

I am not even sure anyone needs to have those answers, one can just stay with the Gospel of Christ Jesus and his death and resurrection finished and accomplished for our eternal salvation.
 
UnderGrace said:
Most of your posts are Calvinism is right and since I believe in his doctrine I am right.

His doctrine is all about explaining the fore ordained, the foreknowledge of God, which pulls in free will and determinism etc., etc.,

I am not even sure anyone needs to have those answers, one can just stay with the Gospel of Christ Jesus and his death and resurrection finished and accomplished for our eternal salvation.
Click to expand...
Calvinism is all about giving God the glory and honor He deserves, the other view takes it away from God and gives it to wicked men so it is very important to get it right.

You may be saved and not deal with this issue, but your reward in heaven may only be a small one. When you give God all the glory for everything and leave nothing for yourself, then you put yourself in the right place and you can please God.
 
Slayer said:
Calvinism is all about giving God the glory and honor He deserves, the other view takes it away from God and gives it to wicked men so it is very important to get it right.

You may be saved and not deal with this issue, but your reward in heaven may only be a small one. When you give God all the glory for everything and leave nothing for yourself, then you put yourself in the right place and you can please God.
Click to expand...

Calvinism robs God at the very start from any glory by making Him the author of evil and makes Him responsible for the actions of the wicked men. So how does that elevate Him to your high, glorious, grand status?

The appeal of this schema has a lot more to do with other internal biases and prejudices than objective external truth and I know because I was there.

What can I say, I know you cannot see it today..... anyway ...... there is always tomorrow.:cautious:
 
UnderGrace said:
Calvinism robs God at the very start from any glory by making Him the author of evil and makes Him responsible for the actions of the wicked men. So how does that elevate Him to your high, glorious, grand status?

The appeal of this schema has a lot more to do with other internal biases and prejudices than objective external truth and I know because I was there.

What can I say, I know you cannot see it today..... anyway ...... there is always tomorrow.:cautious:
Click to expand...
NEVER!!!!! again will I be deceived by Arminianism, I can't go back now that I posses the truth. The truth sets you free from error and false beliefs, so there's no changing for those of us who posses the truth.
 
Slayer said:
NEVER!!!!! again will I be deceived by Arminianism, I can't go back now that I posses the truth. The truth sets you free from error and false beliefs, so there's no changing for those of us who posses the truth.
Click to expand...

The Truth (Jesus) sets you free from the bondage of sin, Jesus is the gate to freedom, He is the the Way the Truth and the Life.

Iron clad systematic dogmatic theology never sets anyone free, probably the exact opposite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1ofthem
UnderGrace said:
The Truth (Jesus) sets you free from the bondage of sin, Jesus is the gate to freedom, He is the the Way the Truth and the Life.

Iron clad systematic dogmatic theology never sets anyone free, probably the exact opposite.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ, iron clad theology is the key to accessing the Gospel. You need to have the right understanding of the Gospel to unlock it's power.
 
Slayer said:
I beg to differ, iron clad theology is the key to accessing the Gospel. You need to have the right understanding of the Gospel to unlock it's power.
Click to expand...

The gospel yes, theology no, iron clad theology is based on human pride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1ofthem
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back