You won't give scripture, because those two scriptures that people use don't explain that. You don't have any scripture. Everything in the bible is not going to be explained word for word. That is why we need the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining
spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14The person without the Spirit does not accept the
things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.